Tyrone v Down - Sun 18th May, Omagh

[thebuzz]

Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.

I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the last 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.

[SkillfulBill]

Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.

I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the last 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.

This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.

Minor manager 1991- 1998

Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98

U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01

Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08

Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.

[John o connor]

But there has to be a reason for the demise of great teams - As AZ and a couple of others have said, it happened to a lot of different managers - Pete McGrath, Billy Morgan, Sean Boylan, even Micko in the late eighties.And the reason is, IMO, is how do you replace players that win All Irelands?How could Down ever hoped to have replaced the forwared line containing Carr, Blaney, Mason, Linden & McCartan?These players come along once in a lifetime - How do you replace Brian Dooher?I remember wee Pete getting a lot of stick regarding holding on too long to old hands and I agreed with it. In hindsight, who was going to come in and do a better job than, say, DJ or Barry Breen?! And I know for a fact the majority of them believed they had another AI in them.I would agree with the Tyrone followers that Mickey makes strange decisions, but, believe me, changing the man does not mean an upturn in fortunes! And as a Down man I would give anything to have 2 Ulster Championships since 2008.All teams go through it - Armagh can now breathe air as it cant get any worse for them, Down trundle along, in mediocrity, with Meath & Galway. Hopefully this is the year we win the Ulster we require!


Page after page of drivel and over analysis , Barry Breen in this post has hit the nail on the head 100 % correct

[BennyHarp]

Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.

I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.

This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.

Minor manager 1991- 1998

Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98

U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01

Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08

Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.

Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.

[trileacman]

That's a complete f**king contradiction. So the reason Harte is successful is because of the players. Now that the team drew with Down it's all Harte's fault and nothing to do with the players.

Part of me wants to see Harte f**k the lot of ye and leave so that we can get slide into mediocrity like Down, Armagh, Meath and Glaway. Maybe then we won't have to listen to you crying f**kers who probably haven't even won a feile in your lifes never mind manage teams to win 6 All-Irelands.

[rrhf]

lads stop talking all irelands and ulsters for a minute....both teams  lets just win what will be one hell of a battle on saturday. dont rule out another draw.

[ONeill]

lads stop talking all irelands and ulsters for a minute....both teams  lets just win what will be one hell of a battle on saturday. dont rule out another draw.

When was the last time that has happened to us? Two draws I mean.

[rrhf]

All Ireland minor semifinal 97. Before that national league semi final 1984.

[ONeill]

A very good question there young O'Neill.

For the Championship, my records show it was in the 1933 series.

Tyrone 0-3 Antrim 0-3 in Coalisland
Antrim 3-5 Tyrone 3-5 in Belfast
Tyrone 1-8 Antrim 1-2 in Omagh.

Cavan went on to bate us 6-13 to 1-2.

[SkillfulBill]

Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.

I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.

This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.

Minor manager 1991- 1998

Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98

U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01

Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08

Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.

Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.

That is the sentimental response i would have expected. I would not try to down play Mickey's ability to get the best from that bunch of exceptional talent. I would however question his ability to do the same with another set of players who he has not the same connection to. No one on here has yet to give a resonable rational to sundays team selection or addressed his failure to convert a number of AI minor title winning teams of 04,08 and 10 into a team with AI credentials.

[lfdown2]

lads stop talking all irelands and ulsters for a minute....both teams  lets just win what will be one hell of a battle on saturday. dont rule out another draw.

When was the last time that has happened to us? Two draws I mean.

Was it not '08 - decided by extra time instead of a 2nd replay?

[ONeill]

Mourne boys and their technicalities.

[SkillfulBill]

That's a complete f**king contradiction. So the reason Harte is successful is because of the players. Now that the team drew with Down it's all Harte's fault and nothing to do with the players.

Part of me wants to see Harte f**k the lot of ye and leave so that we can get slide into mediocrity like Down, Armagh, Meath and Glaway. Maybe then we won't have to listen to you crying f**kers who probably haven't even won a feile in your lifes never mind manage teams to win 6 All-Irelands.

I wish he would. I think he aready has delivered Tyrone into mediocrity we have failed to beat a top side in the championship since 08 so mediocrity is where its at.

[BennyHarp]

Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.

I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.

This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.

Minor manager 1991- 1998

Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98

U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01

Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08

Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.

Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.

That is the sentimental response i would have expected. I would not try to down play Mickey's ability to get the best from that bunch of exceptional talent. I would however question his ability to do the same with another set of players who he has not the same connection to. No one on here has yet to give a resonable rational to sundays team selection or addressed his failure to convert a number of AI minor title winning teams of 04,08 and 10 into a team with AI credentials.

2013   Mayo
2012   Dublin
2011   Tipperary
2010   Tyrone
2009   Armagh
2008   Tyrone
2007   Galway
2006   Roscommon
2005   Down
2004   Tyrone
2003   Laois
2002   Derry
2001   Tyrone
2000   Cork
1999   Down
1998   Tyrone
1997   Laois
1996   Laois

So the list of AI winning minor teams since 1996 - how many of these counties have gone on to win Senior All Irelands? Only 2 other counties who have won minor championships have gone on to win senior All Irelands, it's no guarantee for success. In that time, under Mickey, Tyrone has won 3.

8 of the starting team in 2008 didn't start the 2003 final, so to say Mickey couldn't work with different players is just nonsense.

I have my problems with some of the selections but I'm happy to admit that the management see more of the team than I do and are most likely looking at August with this squad rather than May. I fully expect a much better Tyrone on Saturday night, Mickey has a decent record in replays.

[orangeman]

A very good question there young O'Neill.

For the Championship, my records show it was in the 1933 series.

Tyrone 0-3 Antrim 0-3 in Coalisland
Antrim 3-5 Tyrone 3-5 in Belfast
Tyrone 1-8 Antrim 1-2 in Omagh.

Cavan went on to bate us 6-13 to 1-2.

Tyrone should have let Antrim bate them that day. It was great weather for a game or three that summer.