Cork v Dubs 13 April

[Captain Obvious]

Never suggested Cork, whatever the 15 picked, would beat Dublin or even get closer later on in the championship when Dublin are at full strength. I simply pointed out that it is incorrect to suggest Cork were close to full strength last Sunday, they weren't. I do think Cork will give Dublin a better game should they meet in championship but man for man, Dublin are the best team in Ireland and if they keep focused I don't think anyone will beat them. On their day, Dublin could annihilate any other team in Ireland.

Doesn't say much for rest or does others have to play poorly to allow Dublin to be on their day?

[Zulu]

I don't think it reflects poorly on any other team at all. Dublin probably have a team that will be compared to the best teams to ever grace the game. When they kick into gear I don't think any team could live with them in an out and out football game. They'll hammer some of the best teams in Ireland over the next few years though that is not to say they won't be beaten this year, they might be.

[Captain Obvious]

I don't think it reflects poorly on any other team at all. Dublin probably have a team that will be compared to the best teams to ever grace the game. When they kick into gear I don't think any team could live with them in an out and out football game. They'll hammer some of the best teams in Ireland over the next few years though that is not to say they won't be beaten this year, they might be.

Some of the best ever teams had fierce competition. Dublin are a top side and could dominate for the next few years however who are the outstanding teams around at the moment to test them? to be honest its hard to know the full value of this Dublin team.

[Zulu]

Not sure that's true, Kerry and Dublin only had each other for 5 or 6 years in the 70's. Cork and Meath only had the two of them in the late 80's. Dublin will face more decent teams over the coming years than most other 'great' teams of the past, though they might lack another great rival. Monaghan, Cavan, Roscommon, Kildare, Cork and Derry will have teams as good as any they've had in the past 20 years.

[orangeman]

Only one winner in a shoot out. Today's Indo piece.

AT the height of their powers the great Kilkenny hurling team of modern times could regularly flex their muscles on league afternoons in a way that made you feel the gap with the chasing pack was almost too great to close.

On the back of their destruction of all- comers to win a third straight All-Ireland in 2008, they went on to lay waste to a series of opponents in the league the following spring.

Those few games amounted to some of the best hurling they played. Losing to Waterford by four points had been their prompt. Over the next four weekends they saw off Galway, Tipperary, Clare and a Cork team not long off strike notice by an aggregate of 68 points.

But by May the invincible tag earned over those few weekends had worn a little thinner as Tipp recovered to bring them to extra-time in the league final. Still, the message had been delivered.

Whatever the challenge was, whatever way it took to win, they could respond.

That rich vein of form through 2008 and '09 still didn't push them to a second 'double double' on Brian Cody's watch, previously achieved in '02 and '03 when they held all four national titles (two All-Irelands and two leagues).

It underlined what a difficult achievement it is in Gaelic games to complete such a sequence.


To deliver in four consecutive national competitions is something the greatest ever hurling team achieved just once, and was beyond the Dublin and Kerry teams of the '70s and '80s.

The 'double double' remains very much a live target for the current Dublin team. For sure there are many tricky hurdles and much concentration required. But their extraordinary efforts over the last three weekends have kept them on course for it.

No team has won back-to-back league/championship doubles in modern times.

Cork won the 2010 and 2011 league title either side of their 2010 All-Ireland triumph, Galway were the 1965 league champions in between their '64 and '65 All-Ireland triumphs while the great Cavan team of the late '40s sandwiched the '48 league title between the '47 and '48 championships. But the sequence never extended to four in succession.

Dublin may never reach the pitch in terms of results and overall dominance that Kilkenny enjoyed in '08 and '09. But their performances against Mayo and Cork in particular could reshape thinking on the rest of the season.

They may lack the consistency that Jim Gavin craves but there have been times when they have lifted their game to a completely different level. By clawing back a six-point deficit in 19 minutes with 14 men against Mayo and overturning a 10-point deficit in just over 30 minutes to win by seven against Cork, they have illustrated a steely resolve and a refusal to panic to match their exceptional pace and clinical precision.

What's more, they have the look of a team really enjoying pushing out the boundaries of their talents. You can't help feel there is a real 'let's see how far we can really go' feel about this Dublin squad, as if the parameters of what they can achieve haven't come close to being reached.

Can any other team really expect to play them on their own terms now and survive? Can the aim of outscoring this Dublin team in some of the shoot-outs that have prevailed over the last couple of seasons really be achieved?

Kerry, Mayo and Cork have now tried and failed in games that have mattered. The objectives of the respective opposing managers have been noble – to play attacking football, to have a go, to entertain.

But the era of football on the front foot may be short-lived. It was nice while it lasted but to survive at the altitude that Dublin can now exist, the sandbags must be erected.

Meeting Dublin 'head on', as Cork manager Brian Cuthbert put it after Sunday's defeat, just doesn't make sense any more, not even for the top teams in closest pursuit of the champions.

The staggering pace that Dublin's game is based on was reflected in at least four of the 13 points they hit after the 44th minute to close out Sunday's semi-final.

The genesis of all four points, from Diarmuid Connolly (free), Davy Byrne, Johnny Cooper and Ciaran Reddin, was either a Stephen Cluxton kick-out, a sideline or a Cork move that had broken down behind their own 20-metre line.

The completion of each point (or the winning of a free by Alan Brogan 20 metres out for Connolly to convert) took between 16 and 19 seconds.


Sweeping the full length of a field once or twice in that sort of time might happen once or twice in a game. To do it four times without an interruption against a team of Cork's quality in such a short space of time is exceptional.

For Cooper's point, Brogan had both corner-backs, Cooper and Philly McMahon, flanking him as outriders as he made ground over 50 metres after gathering Byrne's clearing pass. Both Cooper and McMahon had started their runs in close proximity to Byrne.

Brogan's influence across the half-forward line in the final 25 minutes was pronounced; the arrival of brother Bernard for his first inter-county action in over six months coincided with a lift in tempo around the 44th minute.

It's hard to remember the scale of a comeback like it. But then that's a reflection of the game of speed and movement that Gaelic football has become, a game in which Dublin are pioneers.

[INDIANA]

I don't think it reflects poorly on any other team at all. Dublin probably have a team that will be compared to the best teams to ever grace the game. When they kick into gear I don't think any team could live with them in an out and out football game. They'll hammer some of the best teams in Ireland over the next few years though that is not to say they won't be beaten this year, they might be.

Some of the best ever teams had fierce competition. Dublin are a top side and could dominate for the next few years however who are the outstanding teams around at the moment to test them? to be honest its hard to know the full value of this Dublin team.

Kilkenny hurlers didn't have much competition between 2005-2010
Dublin and Kerry didn't have much in the 70's if any.
Kerry and Tyrone didn't have much between 2001-2009.

In every era a team elevates themselves above everyone else. that's why they are great. Happens in every sport too.

Dublin are there through sheer hard work and some good underage teams. But everything is cyclical. This doomesday scenario didn't happen when kilkenny were laying waste to everyone and it won't happen this time either.

And Dublin could very easily be beaten this year. Never underestimate how much you'll go for a ball with a minute to go when you've got a few medals. You can never answer that question either as a player unless it actually happens in a game. So at this point we don't know with Dublin

[marym]

By all accounts Kelly and Cahalane are no way matchfit, Both had very serious surgery and Kelly just played first full match for club a few weeks ago. Both teams have a number of under 21s to come back. Hard to judge what will come down the line.If Cork can sort their midfield , they have some class forwards that will do damage.

[Canalman]

Dubs got two softish/ lucky goals on Sunday which had a big bearing on the game. Cork nowhere as bad as they looked in 2nd half.

Many here know what it is like to have one of those days on the pitch when nothing goes right and the harder you try the more it goes wrong.

Very same was done to  us by Cork in the league final 3 years ago.

Very same wasn't done. We were 8 points up with a lot of fringe players playing against full strength Cork team. Cork reeled us in with some great football. However while they were doing this we were still creating & missing chances.  Even at the end we missed two sitters to actually put the game beyond Cork - one by Mossy and the other by Deam Kelly.

Gilroy used game to test a number of players a number of which weren't seen again that year. Very different last Sun with Cork more or less at full strength The nature of capitulation will be biggest issue for Cork if we meet again.

Not so sure I agree with you about the team we fielded that day. Maybe missing a few but definitely was the backbone of the team later in the summer.
Missing chances/ not getting chances all the same to me tbh. Was disgusted by the result at the time. Following on from 2010 semi final collapse it was hard to take.

[Hill16 Blues]

Dubs got two softish/ lucky goals on Sunday which had a big bearing on the game. Cork nowhere as bad as they looked in 2nd half.

Many here know what it is like to have one of those days on the pitch when nothing goes right and the harder you try the more it goes wrong.

Very same was done to  us by Cork in the league final 3 years ago.

Very same wasn't done. We were 8 points up with a lot of fringe players playing against full strength Cork team. Cork reeled us in with some great football. However while they were doing this we were still creating & missing chances.  Even at the end we missed two sitters to actually put the game beyond Cork - one by Mossy and the other by Deam Kelly.

Gilroy used game to test a number of players a number of which weren't seen again that year. Very different last Sun with Cork more or less at full strength The nature of capitulation will be biggest issue for Cork if we meet again.

Not so sure I agree with you about the team we fielded that day. Maybe missing a few but definitely was the backbone of the team later in the summer.
Missing chances/ not getting chances all the same to me tbh. Was disgusted by the result at the time. Following on from 2010 semi final collapse it was hard to take.

Was disgusted also. Only person not disgusted was Gilroy which kinda told a story in itself. Think he definitely used game to decide if fringe players up to the mark.  We would have won the game if Mossy or Kelly had taken one of those chances at the end.

[Rossfan]

Never underestimate how much you'll go for a ball with a minute to go when you've got a few medals. You can never answer that question either as a player unless it actually happens in a game.

+1.
The last few Champions have found that out in August alright.

[heffo]

Dubs got two softish/ lucky goals on Sunday which had a big bearing on the game. Cork nowhere as bad as they looked in 2nd half.

Many here know what it is like to have one of those days on the pitch when nothing goes right and the harder you try the more it goes wrong.

Very same was done to  us by Cork in the league final 3 years ago.

Very same wasn't done. We were 8 points up with a lot of fringe players playing against full strength Cork team. Cork reeled us in with some great football. However while they were doing this we were still creating & missing chances.  Even at the end we missed two sitters to actually put the game beyond Cork - one by Mossy and the other by Deam Kelly.

Gilroy used game to test a number of players a number of which weren't seen again that year. Very different last Sun with Cork more or less at full strength The nature of capitulation will be biggest issue for Cork if we meet again.

Not so sure I agree with you about the team we fielded that day. Maybe missing a few but definitely was the backbone of the team later in the summer.
Missing chances/ not getting chances all the same to me tbh. Was disgusted by the result at the time. Following on from 2010 semi final collapse it was hard to take.

Was disgusted also. Only person not disgusted was Gilroy which kinda told a story in itself. Think he definitely used game to decide if fringe players up to the mark.  We would have won the game if Mossy or Kelly had taken one of those chances at the end.

No comparison with the team that finished that day - the forwards we had on the field for the last 20/25 minutes were as follows:

Darren Daly
Dean Kelly
Pat Burke
Declan Lally
Kevin McMenamon
Paddy Andrews

We missed a heap of handy frees with no free taker on the pitch and had we either Brogan on the pitch for that period we'd have won.

Sunday made us look a lot better than we are though imo..