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Are you in favour of the black card rule

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No
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Still undecided
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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 17, 2014, 08:10:51 PM

Author Topic: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?  (Read 57373 times)

Zulu

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2014, 10:45:23 PM »
I don't think that's fair at all. There's been plenty of physicality in the league games I've seen.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2014, 10:49:43 PM »
Will need at least two years to make a decent judgement. Seems to work OK in the national leagues where players are used to this, but it could well be different in the white heat of the championship and what tactics teams will use to bend around it. What it does show up is how many defenders at intercounty level have trouble executing a perfectly legal tackle against an opponent with the ball. However when almost every player can get away with breaking the four-step rule, maybe this needs to be more rigorously enforced so defenders can get a little leeway in attempting to make a well-timed dispossession.

That's before we've even gone on to its (potential) effect at club level.
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muppet

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2014, 10:51:12 PM »
Will need at least two years to make a decent judgement. Seems to work OK in the national leagues where players are used to this, but it could well be different in the white heat of the championship and what tactics teams will use to bend around it. What it does show up is how many defenders at intercounty level have trouble executing a perfectly legal tackle against an opponent with the ball. However when almost every player can get away with breaking the four-step rule, maybe this needs to be more rigorously enforced so defenders can get a little leeway in attempting to make a well-timed dispossession.

That's before we've even gone on to its (potential) effect at club level.

This is the problem and it brings us back to basic enforcement of the rules as being the problem, not a need for loads of new ones.
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Hardy

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2014, 11:10:54 PM »
It has changed the game to a non physical gaelic lite type sport. I m sure soccer had to evolve like this to become the w bland yet palatable sporting soufflé it is today.  It's impossible to defend against running teams.  Really Finding it a turn off.

Spot on.
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shawshank

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2014, 11:15:09 PM »
Serious championship games will let it all unfold before us, until then no one can assess its impact.

ck

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 12:05:41 AM »
It has changed the game to a non physical gaelic lite type sport. I m sure soccer had to evolve like this to become the w bland yet palatable sporting soufflé it is today.  It's impossible to defend against running teams.  Really Finding it a turn off.

Such a load of sh*te. Really finding it a turn off?? You would rather see the sh*t we have witnessed over the last few years started by Donegal who took cynicism to new depths? Blocking runners, intentional fouls, taking a yellow, closing out games zzzzzz Now that was a turn off!

For me it's a yes based on evidence of NFL but C'ship will be the acid test. My initial concern was inconsistency of referees and that remains my concern

sligoman2

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2014, 02:32:18 AM »
I agree with your point on ref inconsistency but you have that problem on the application of most rules. 
So we can shoot the messenger but I think the message itself is a good one.  Football had become cynical and I for one have enjoyed the league games so far.

 I don't have the statistics but I would bet that scoring is way higher this year especially goals.
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BennyHarp

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2014, 08:34:11 AM »
Is high scoring the be all and end all of good football? I'd much prefer it when forwards have to work for their scores - a proper challenge and sorted the great forwards from the decent ones - the way competitive sport should be. I'm sick already of watching average enough players being given all day to kick scores and we are in danger of swaying things far too much in the favour of the forwards - give me Tyrone v Armagh 2005 AI semi final any day of the week.
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blewuporstuffed

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2014, 09:06:40 AM »
Is high scoring the be all and end all of good football? I'd much prefer it when forwards have to work for their scores - a proper challenge and sorted the great forwards from the decent ones - the way competitive sport should be. I'm sick already of watching average enough players being given all day to kick scores and we are in danger of swaying things far too much in the favour of the forwards - give me Tyrone v Armagh 2005 AI semi final any day of the week.
+1
exactly this
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J OGorman

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2014, 09:09:40 AM »
christ you Tyrone boys are taking this black card badly  ;D

Hound

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2014, 10:02:17 AM »
It has changed the game to a non physical gaelic lite type sport. I m sure soccer had to evolve like this to become the w bland yet palatable sporting soufflé it is today.  It's impossible to defend against running teams.  Really Finding it a turn off.

Spot on.
That was your expectation pre the introduction of the black card Hardy, but have you seen enough games this year to support or refute that idea?

Because, in my opinion, its absolute nonsense to suggest the black card is impacting on the physicality of our games.

The views of the Tyrone lads here are just laughable. Dublin were far more physical in the game on Sunday and you've got Tyrone lads on that match thread moaning about the lack of black cards, and then on this thread the same lads moaning about lack of physicality!! Its probable that their frustraton lies with the rampant divers among their lads - that must be hugely annoying to them.

In reality, the black card does not impact on physical contact one bit. The Dublin-Tyrone match was a great example. Dublin got lots of tough tackles in on Tyrone lads. Over-penalised by Duffy in my opinion, but no doubt some were mis-timed or just badly executed. But no risk of a black card as all were attempted tackles.

We've had two perfect examples of a black card. Feeney in the club takes out a player off the ball who's trying to make a run. That's been the biggest benefit of the game. The off the ball blocking which was absolutely rampant among practically all teams at club and county level has completely disappeared.

The other was McNamee on Sunday. He first attempted a fair physical challenge. He caught O'Gara, slowed him down. O'Gara managed to ride through it, but then McNamee just tripped him up with no attempt to tackle or win the ball. Nothing physical about the latter trip and clear black card.

If Mick Lyons was playing today, in the same manner, he'd get plenty of yellows and reds, but I'd doubt he'd ever get a black. Because the black card attacks the sly/cyncial tackle, not the tough/robust tackle.

The refs, in the main, have done a super job on the black cards. The only worry is if the moaning of all the people who just don't understand the rule, seeps through to them and they start to be more profligate with it. Stuff like the "yellow card is the new bounce ball" etc is just maddening. Lads who don't know/understand the rules talking pure nonsense.


AZOffaly

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2014, 10:13:56 AM »
It has changed the game to a non physical gaelic lite type sport. I m sure soccer had to evolve like this to become the w bland yet palatable sporting soufflé it is today.  It's impossible to defend against running teams.  Really Finding it a turn off.

Impossible to defend, or impossible to defend in the old way. Did defending against running teams in the recent past involve dragging them down or body checking after the pass. If so, then that wasn't defending either, and should have seen yellow and red cards.

The only reason we have the black cards now is because people weren't getting penalised as they should have been in the past.

BennyHarp

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2014, 10:16:59 AM »
It's not necessarily about the physicality - it's about defenders not really knowing what they can and can't do and it's making it virtually impossible for defenders. We seem to be the only sport that actively frowns upon any sort of defensive tactics. The tackle in Gaelic football with one hand is not effective when trying to stop a player running at a defender, especially if he can take 6 steps in the process and off load to a runner who can't be touched either. I don't think there is a problem with standing your ground and stopping a runner from running past you, as long as you don't haul him down or trip him. But standing your ground puts you at risk of getting a black card these days. I think we will see an increased running game develop with very little kick passes. However, we may see an increase in long range point taking as defences just create a defensive line inside their own 45, a la rugby league.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 10:19:30 AM by BennyHarp »
That was never a square ball!!

screenexile

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2014, 10:23:57 AM »
Indeed this 'lack of physicality' nonsense being spouted is just that... nonsense!

The Last match I was at was Derry v Dublin and a Dublin defender was waiting for the ball to come into his hands and Patsy Bradley got to the ball first and ploughed through the man. It was brilliant.

As I've said before late tackles, 3rd man tackles and drag downs are nothing to do with physicality and if these things are eradicated, the National league has shown that quality will improve!

I also don't think the lack of kick passing thing will work either. With the lack of pulling/dragging/3rd man tackles it pays to kick the ball rather than give lads the chance to run back and set up their defensive screen!

In regards to the defensive line a la Rugby League well we have had that since 2002 anyway so i don't think that's a major issue!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 10:25:33 AM by screenexile »

AZOffaly

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Re: So what do ye think of the black card rule now?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2014, 10:29:54 AM »
It has changed the game to a non physical gaelic lite type sport. I m sure soccer had to evolve like this to become the w bland yet palatable sporting soufflé it is today.  It's impossible to defend against running teams.  Really Finding it a turn off.

Spot on.
That was your expectation pre the introduction of the black card Hardy, but have you seen enough games this year to support or refute that idea?

Because, in my opinion, its absolute nonsense to suggest the black card is impacting on the physicality of our games.

The views of the Tyrone lads here are just laughable. Dublin were far more physical in the game on Sunday and you've got Tyrone lads on that match thread moaning about the lack of black cards, and then on this thread the same lads moaning about lack of physicality!! Its probable that their frustraton lies with the rampant divers among their lads - that must be hugely annoying to them.

In reality, the black card does not impact on physical contact one bit. The Dublin-Tyrone match was a great example. Dublin got lots of tough tackles in on Tyrone lads. Over-penalised by Duffy in my opinion, but no doubt some were mis-timed or just badly executed. But no risk of a black card as all were attempted tackles.

We've had two perfect examples of a black card. Feeney in the club takes out a player off the ball who's trying to make a run. That's been the biggest benefit of the game. The off the ball blocking which was absolutely rampant among practically all teams at club and county level has completely disappeared.

The other was McNamee on Sunday. He first attempted a fair physical challenge. He caught O'Gara, slowed him down. O'Gara managed to ride through it, but then McNamee just tripped him up with no attempt to tackle or win the ball. Nothing physical about the latter trip and clear black card.

If Mick Lyons was playing today, in the same manner, he'd get plenty of yellows and reds, but I'd doubt he'd ever get a black. Because the black card attacks the sly/cyncial tackle, not the tough/robust tackle.

The refs, in the main, have done a super job on the black cards. The only worry is if the moaning of all the people who just don't understand the rule, seeps through to them and they start to be more profligate with it. Stuff like the "yellow card is the new bounce ball" etc is just maddening. Lads who don't know/understand the rules talking pure nonsense.

+1. I think the contention that the black card reduces fair physicality is absolutely nonsensical. It reduces the bullshit, faux hard man stuff, and the deliberate, cynical, foul after a turnover type stuff. This thing that you somehow can't defend now because you're not allowed pull lads onto the ground or check their off the ball runs is bizarre. That wasn't 'defending' in this first place lads. You'd swear the black card has outlawed the block down, the fair shoulder charge or the dispossession.