FRC Part 2. The 8 team provinces?

[muppet]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody. If you take that away from them for some makey up shite, forget about it. If you add some makey up shite instead of the All Ireland series, then maybe.

Tipp want to win a Munster Football Title in the next 5-10 years. It will be tough, it may never happen, but it's a goal. Don't take the goal away from them.

It's the hope that kills you.

[AZOffaly]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody. If you take that away from them for some makey up shite, forget about it. If you add some makey up shite instead of the All Ireland series, then maybe.

Tipp want to win a Munster Football Title in the next 5-10 years. It will be tough, it may never happen, but it's a goal. Don't take the goal away from them.

It's the hope that kills you.

It is, but it's also what keeps you going.

[muppet]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody. If you take that away from them for some makey up shite, forget about it. If you add some makey up shite instead of the All Ireland series, then maybe.

Tipp want to win a Munster Football Title in the next 5-10 years. It will be tough, it may never happen, but it's a goal. Don't take the goal away from them.

It's the hope that kills you.

It is, but it's also what keeps you going.

Correct. 14 MO Sam!

[Rossfan]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody.

No they are NOT.
Wicklow never
Fermanagh Never
Limerick 1896
Tipp 1935
Waterford ??
Clare 1992 - only time in last 79 years that Cork/Kerry didn't win it.
Westmeath 1
Longford 1
Louth 2010
Kildare 2 Leinsters in almost 60 years
Leitrim 1927/1994
Sligo 1928/1975/2007
Antrim 1946

Teams that do badly in the Provincials know that going into a Separate AI/Back door is a waste of time.

Only way a B/Intermediate/Section2 or whatever would work would be if the winners/finalists got into the Sam Maguire race.
Then again that could be done by having a seeded "weaker" section of the draw/groups or whatever.

[Zulu]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody. If you take that away from them for some makey up shite, forget about it. If you add some makey up shite instead of the All Ireland series, then maybe.

Tipp want to win a Munster Football Title in the next 5-10 years. It will be tough, it may never happen, but it's a goal. Don't take the goal away from them.

It's not realistic though, ok, maybe in a 'I could win the lotto kinda way' but not genuinely. Anyway, if the provincial system and, in particular, it's link to the All Ireland series wasn't having such a disastrous effect on attempts to run club championships and have a fair and exciting IC season then keep it. But it is having a negative impact on the GAA and all for the hope that Offaly, Waterford, Longford or Leitrim will a provincial championship. Sorry, but what we are harming to keep that fantasy alive is too much. I've said it before, hold the provincial championships as stand alone competitions if you like but linking them with the All Ireland is utter nonsense in practically every way you can think of.

[Dinny Breen]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody.

Really?

Dublin have won 9 of the last 12!

Kildare haven't won since 2000, Meath since 2001, Offaly since 1997 and Wexford since 1945. They are the 4 teams behind Dublin on the roll of honour.

Carlow, Longford, Westmeath and Wicklow have won 4 titles between them.

Dublin are only getting stronger 4 of the last 5 u21 Leinster titles and 3 of the last 5 minor titles. So over the last 5 years Dublin have won 11 of the 15 titles available at minor, u21 and Senior.

The Leinster Provincial Championship as a contest is dead. Once Dublin got organised and started utilising their competitive advantages it was only ever going to go one way.

[AZOffaly]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody.

No they are NOT.
Wicklow never
Fermanagh Never
Limerick 1896
Tipp 1935
Waterford ??
Clare 1992 - only time in last 79 years that Cork/Kerry didn't win it.
Westmeath 1
Longford 1
Louth 2010
Kildare 2 Leinsters in almost 60 years
Leitrim 1927/1994
Sligo 1928/1975/2007
Antrim 1946

Teams that do badly in the Provincials know that going into a Separate AI/Back door is a waste of time.

Only way a B/Intermediate/Section2 or whatever would work would be if the winners/finalists got into the Sam Maguire race.
Then again that could be done by having a seeded "weaker" section of the draw/groups or whatever.

It is a realistic AIM for everyone. Of course your not going to win it often, and most years you'll lose, but if we take that to it's natural conclusion Mayo shouldn't be in the All Ireland Series. 1951.

In my lifetime I've seen Leitrim, Sligo, Westmeath, Laois, Kildare, Offaly and Clare win provincial senior football titles after long breaks or never before. I've seen Wexford, Tipperary, London(!) and Antrim in Provincial Finals.

If we limit the competitions to those that have a good record of winning them (as opposed to those who aim and aspire to do so) then the All Ireland should be between about 6 counties. when did Roscommon last win a Sam Maguire? They should be out in the B championship with the rest of us.

[Rossfan]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody.

Really?

Dublin have won 9 of the last 12!

Kildare haven't won since 2000, Meath since 2001, Offaly since 1997 and Wexford since 1945. They are the 4 teams behind Dublin on the roll of honour.

Carlow, Longford, Westmeath and Wicklow have won 4 titles between them.

Dublin are only getting stronger 4 of the last 5 u21 Leinster titles and 3 of the last 5 minor titles. So over the last 5 years Dublin have won 11 of the 15 titles available at minor, u21 and Senior.

The Leinster Provincial Championship as a contest is dead. Once Dublin got organised and started utilising their competitive advantages it was only ever going to go one way.

The best case I've seen made yet for making Dublin a Province and setting up 4 County Boards.
Well done Dinny.

[AZOffaly]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody.

Really?

Dublin have won 9 of the last 12!

Kildare haven't won since 2000, Meath since 2001, Offaly since 1997 and Wexford since 1945. They are the 4 teams behind Dublin on the roll of honour.

Carlow, Longford, Westmeath and Wicklow have won 4 titles between them.

Dublin are only getting stronger 4 of the last 5 u21 Leinster titles and 3 of the last 5 minor titles. So over the last 5 years Dublin have won 11 of the 15 titles available at minor, u21 and Senior.

The Leinster Provincial Championship as a contest is dead. Once Dublin got organised and started utilising their competitive advantages it was only ever going to go one way.

Dinny, if we do away with competitions on that basis, then the All Ireland should be scrapped. Only Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal and Cork have won it in the past 10 years or so, and teams like Mayo, Roscommon, Offaly, Kildare, Derry, Cavan etc etc haven't won it in decades.

I think the provincial championship is a realistic target for everyone, at least to reach a final. As I've said, several teams have reached provincial finals, or won them, in the not distant past that have never done so before. That's because they had an aim, a dream, and worked towards it.

By all means introduce a secondary or tertiary competition after the Provincial championships, instead of that bolloxology Qualifer system. But at least let the likes of Tipp and Sligo and Leitrim dream of a provincial title against the big boys the odd time.

[AZOffaly]

I made a proposal a while ago to tie the leagues to a seeded draw in the Provinces, whereby the top ranked Leinster team would play the bottom ranked team in that years Leinster championship, etc.  This would make the leagues even more important as teams scramble for a good seeding, and also allows them to retain a shot a provincial title. After that, it's straight knockout all the way through to Sam Maguire.

I think the Qualifers are largely a waste of time. Of course you get the odd mouth watering tie, but in reality its mostly a case of poor teams getting waxed twice, and actually about making sure Kerry, Dublin, Mayo or whomever get another chance to be at the party on the August Bank Holiday weekend.

If we don't tie the league to the championship, then I'd not be against the notion of a Provincial Championship, leading to All Ireland series for say the finalists in each province, A B championship for beaten semi finalists and a C championship for those beaten before that.

[Zulu]

Provincial titles are a realistic aim for everybody.

No they are NOT.
Wicklow never
Fermanagh Never
Limerick 1896
Tipp 1935
Waterford ??
Clare 1992 - only time in last 79 years that Cork/Kerry didn't win it.
Westmeath 1
Longford 1
Louth 2010
Kildare 2 Leinsters in almost 60 years
Leitrim 1927/1994
Sligo 1928/1975/2007
Antrim 1946

Teams that do badly in the Provincials know that going into a Separate AI/Back door is a waste of time.

Only way a B/Intermediate/Section2 or whatever would work would be if the winners/finalists got into the Sam Maguire race.
Then again that could be done by having a seeded "weaker" section of the draw/groups or whatever.

It is a realistic AIM for everyone. Of course your not going to win it often, and most years you'll lose, but if we take that to it's natural conclusion Mayo shouldn't be in the All Ireland Series. 1951.

In my lifetime I've seen Leitrim, Sligo, Westmeath, Laois, Kildare, Offaly and Clare win provincial senior football titles after long breaks or never before. I've seen Wexford, Tipperary, London(!) and Antrim in Provincial Finals.

If we limit the competitions to those that have a good record of winning them (as opposed to those who aim and aspire to do so) then the All Ireland should be between about 6 counties. when did Roscommon last win a Sam Maguire? They should be out in the B championship with the rest of us.

The dream of winning the lotto is a realistic AIM for us all and if a guy with a good job buys two lines weekly then that's fine but if a guy on the dole is spending 60% of the money he has chasing a lotto win every week then it isn't fine. IMO we are paying too high a price for unrealistic dreams. Anyone who argues for the retention of the provincial championships needs to explain how it can be done within a well structured IC season that allows club players well organised and structured club seasons.

[AZOffaly]

I think I've done that a couple of times at this point.

1 - The Leagues are played as normal, but your finishing position in the league determines your seeding in the Provincial Championship.
2 - Provincial Championship is played with these seedings determining the draw. Straight knock out all the way to the All Ireland.
3 - If you lose you're gone. Done. Dusted.

This will increase the importance and the prestige of the league, and will eliminate the superfluous Qualifer matches that make absolutely no material difference to anybody at the end of the day. I'd prefer to see Offaly play Clare in division 4 of the league, knowing that a win would give us the 10th seed in the Leinster championship, and a draw against Westmeath, than see Offaly play Clare in Round 1 of the qualifiers in Ennis with the winner to be annihalated by Tyrone, Mayo or Kerry in the next round.

[Zulu]

If we don't tie the league to the championship, then I'd not be against the notion of a Provincial Championship, leading to All Ireland series for say the finalists in each province, A B championship for beaten semi finalists and a C championship for those beaten before that.

Do you think Ulster teams would think it's fair that Kerry and Cork would almost be guaranteed a one game shot at an All Ireland semi final spot each year while Tyrone or Donegal could end up in a C championship (which they wouldn't play in I'd say, not there actual team anyway)?

I made a proposal a while ago to tie the leagues to a seeded draw in the Provinces, whereby the top ranked Leinster team would play the bottom ranked team in that years Leinster championship, etc.  This would make the leagues even more important as teams scramble for a good seeding, and also allows them to retain a shot a provincial title. After that, it's straight knockout all the way through to Sam Maguire.

Don't think that would add much to the league as it simply gives Cork and Kerry the 1 & 2 seeds every year, Mayo one of the top 2 seeds every year etc. In other words the strong teams and the weak teams would already know they're seeds more or less before the league starts.

[Old yeller]

There is no way we are going to accept moving. We are the aristocrats of Ulster football. How can you take the team that win 39 Ulster titles and put them over with the rock eaters in Connacht. No chance Cavan will buy into this silly idea. Would be like Kerry moving to Leinster. Let Donegal feck off over there, their love of sheep would be similar to the locals in Roscommon.

Spot on Itchy!

[AZOffaly]

It adds to the league in that all the teams below will be scrambling to avoid a Kerry or a Cork in round one. Sure f**k it, let's scrap every competition for everyone that doesn't have at least 5 titles in the last 20 years.

Put all the annoying little teams like tipp, Clare, Offaly, Westmeath Sligo and the like in their own little shite tournament that nobody gives a f**k about, and let the real serious teams play each other. Who wants to see a team like that in the All Ireland semi final or final anyway.