Dublin V Mayo, Saturday 29th March2014. Croke Park 7.00 pm.

[moysider]

I wonder what Castlebar lads on here think of Holmes as a manager.
I never rated him highly as a player or as the Mayo manager either. Maybe others think differently.
As far as I can recall, nobody was sorry to see him go when he stepped down from that job but lots were happy to have John Maughan back again

Pat Holmes is still the last Mayo senior manager to have won national title, he was also joint manager of the Mayo 2006 U-21 All Ireland winning team. His last two senior games was defeats to Roscommon,Westmeath its not hard to see why Mayo supporters weren't sorry to see him go. I don't understand the lovefest Mayo supporters had for John Maughan. Any tactically astute manager would have won Mayo All Ireland in 1996 or 97 IMO.

To be fair he has a lovely tan. Pateen looks like he hasn't seen the sun since 1994.

Holmes is a quaility manager and has proven it at just about every level over the last 15 years. If he had any interest in senior county management there are lots of counties where he'd be an immediate improvement.

Himself and Noel Connelly (his Mayo U21 co-manager) would make a good ticket for just about any county.

I don t think so Syfín. Those  League and U21 wins are of little significance. With a team that could win a league title he failed to win a Connacht title in 4 attempts 2000 - 2003. The much maligned Sir John managed to sandwich him with wins in 1999 and 2004. He managed to lose championship matches to Sligo and Roscommon in Connacht and a play-off to Westmeath.

It d be like taking back an old girlfriend Syfín. One that ye didn t really like anyway and we all know there s not much joy in that We took back Johnno and look how that ended.

[criostlinn]

I dunno how this has got to this. I believe that the lad was invited with other younger lads to take part in a conditioning programme in October. Likes of young Coen, Loftus, O Shea, O Connor lets say. He declined because he d already done a lot of that stuff and anybody that has seen him lately will know he has enough done. A lot of young lads do too much, lose pace and flexibility and end up useless
It s not like he was given a special individual invitation. Edit; I m sure the request was by text and reply likewise.
I ve seen him play twice recently. In what turned out to be an U21 team that was way undercooked. Yet he scored goals that had mammies and daddies of the other lads from south, east and west , skaking their heads and asking 'what the hell is going on'?
The thing is we are very close. And I remember the October bloodletting too many times. Willie Feeley's ladeens in 2006 and last year James Horan being grilled by a fellow clubman ( I suspected that to be a bit of a plant tbh, doin a devil's advocate) about issues arising from last years AI final.
I d prefer to ask the questions now. October should be about oktoberfest not about wondering about ifs, buts, and maybes.   

We'll finally Moy your spitting it out. After months of innuendo and suggestions that wonder boy was hard done by and a victim of some conspiracy finally your letting the mask slip. The bit in bold above tells you everything you need to know about this situation. He decided he'd already done enough of this stuff. Ah sure that's fine Evan come back in April or whenever suits and we'll take it from their. Sure what would them fancy ass trainers that have been watching this kid a couple of nights a week know.

[Lar Naparka]

I see Pat Holmes has stepped down as Castlebar manager.I guess it is all set up for him to step in when James Horan completes his final year in charge of Mayo,hopefully after annexing Sam next September.

My first thought on Monday after the club final was , Holmes will not get the hot seat now, his job was to figure out how to stop Connolly run riot after the first half minimum , he did nothing to address the problem.

It might be raw for Castlebar folk but for Mayo it s probably a blessing in disguise.

Why? It gives the Mitchels to make a go for it again and at the very least retain our county and Connacht titles.

I wonder what Castlebar lads on here think of Holmes as a manager.
I never rated him highly as a player or as the Mayo manager either. Maybe others think differently.
As far as I can recall, nobody was sorry to see him go when he stepped down from that job but lots were happy to have John Maughan back again

We did win our last senior intercounty title beating our arch-rivals/neighbours in Croke Park, not bad IMO. I'd rather have an extended run of Horan's reign though. That is not a vote against Holmes more admiration for James tenure. That said James is working with greater resources with Mayo than Mitchels. I think a Mayo defence could of contained Connelly the last day.

I've no doubt that they would.
Okay, Mitchels hadn't a crack intercounty defence but Connolly didn't have his Dublin team mates with him either. If he is not let build up a head of steam early on, he tends to get frustrated and drifts in and out of the game.
Tom Cunniffe or Richie were tailor-made for the job.
Instead, Tom, the fastest man on the field, was marking Mossy Quinn, whose best days are behind him- to put it mildly.
Even with their most influential player sent off and with Connolly able to run riot, Castlebar were still getting more scores than the Vins. The HT score was 0-9 to 2-3 i.e. nine scores to five and Connolly had set up both goals.
He was keeping Vincents in the game and you just knew that sooner or later, the Mitchels would buckle. They just couldn't keep up the pace.
Anyway, the Vins were worthy winners. It wasn't their fault that Pat Holmes was in charge of Castlebar. 

[Syferus]

I see Pat Holmes has stepped down as Castlebar manager.I guess it is all set up for him to step in when James Horan completes his final year in charge of Mayo,hopefully after annexing Sam next September.

My first thought on Monday after the club final was , Holmes will not get the hot seat now, his job was to figure out how to stop Connolly run riot after the first half minimum , he did nothing to address the problem.

It might be raw for Castlebar folk but for Mayo it s probably a blessing in disguise.

Why? It gives the Mitchels to make a go for it again and at the very least retain our county and Connacht titles.

I wonder what Castlebar lads on here think of Holmes as a manager.
I never rated him highly as a player or as the Mayo manager either. Maybe others think differently.
As far as I can recall, nobody was sorry to see him go when he stepped down from that job but lots were happy to have John Maughan back again

We did win our last senior intercounty title beating our arch-rivals/neighbours in Croke Park, not bad IMO. I'd rather have an extended run of Horan's reign though. That is not a vote against Holmes more admiration for James tenure. That said James is working with greater resources with Mayo than Mitchels. I think a Mayo defence could of contained Connelly the last day.

I've no doubt that they would.
Okay, Mitchels hadn't a crack intercounty defence but Connolly didn't have his Dublin team mates with him either. If he is not let build up a head of steam early on, he tends to get frustrated and drifts in and out of the game.
Tom Cunniffe or Richie were tailor-made for the job.
Instead, Tom, the fastest man on the field, was marking Mossy Quinn, whose best days are behind him- to put it mildly.
Even with their most influential player sent off and with Connolly able to run riot, Castlebar were still getting more scores than the Vins. The HT score was 0-9 to 2-3 i.e. nine scores to five and Connolly had set up both goals.
He was keeping Vincents in the game and you just knew that sooner or later, the Mitchels would buckle. They just couldn't keep up the pace.
Anyway, the Vins were worthy winners. It wasn't their fault that Pat Holmes was in charge of Castlebar. 

The Tanned One would have dealt with the seductive Dublin forward.

[moysider]

I dunno how this has got to this. I believe that the lad was invited with other younger lads to take part in a conditioning programme in October. Likes of young Coen, Loftus, O Shea, O Connor lets say. He declined because he d already done a lot of that stuff and anybody that has seen him lately will know he has enough done. A lot of young lads do too much, lose pace and flexibility and end up useless
It s not like he was given a special individual invitation. Edit; I m sure the request was by text and reply likewise.
I ve seen him play twice recently. In what turned out to be an U21 team that was way undercooked. Yet he scored goals that had mammies and daddies of the other lads from south, east and west , skaking their heads and asking 'what the hell is going on'?
The thing is we are very close. And I remember the October bloodletting too many times. Willie Feeley's ladeens in 2006 and last year James Horan being grilled by a fellow clubman ( I suspected that to be a bit of a plant tbh, doin a devil's advocate) about issues arising from last years AI final.
I d prefer to ask the questions now. October should be about oktoberfest not about wondering about ifs, buts, and maybes.   

We'll finally Moy your spitting it out. After months of innuendo and suggestions that wonder boy was hard done by and a victim of some conspiracy finally your letting the mask slip. The bit in bold above tells you everything you need to know about this situation. He decided he'd already done enough of this stuff. Ah sure that's fine Evan come back in April or whenever suits and we'll take it from their. Sure what would them fancy ass trainers that have been watching this kid a couple of nights a week know.

Nah, I dont think so.  And there is no doubt that he was hard done by last summer. But I also believe he should have rejoined the set-up when requested to do so but he didn t. 20 year olds don t always do the smart thing. The thing is he s probably worked as hard as anybody on the panel since and had serious spring form. But it looks like it s over for him.
 

[Captain Obvious]

Even with their most influential player sent off and with Connolly able to run riot, Castlebar were still getting more scores than the Vins. The HT score was 0-9 to 2-3 i.e. nine scores to five and Connolly had set up both goals.

In fairness St Vincents were wasteful and the Castlebar goalkeeper was keeping his side in the game.

[Never beat the deeler]

I dunno how this has got to this. I believe that the lad was invited with other younger lads to take part in a conditioning programme in October. Likes of young Coen, Loftus, O Shea, O Connor lets say. He declined because he d already done a lot of that stuff and anybody that has seen him lately will know he has enough done. A lot of young lads do too much, lose pace and flexibility and end up useless
It s not like he was given a special individual invitation. Edit; I m sure the request was by text and reply likewise.
I ve seen him play twice recently. In what turned out to be an U21 team that was way undercooked. Yet he scored goals that had mammies and daddies of the other lads from south, east and west , skaking their heads and asking 'what the hell is going on'?
The thing is we are very close. And I remember the October bloodletting too many times. Willie Feeley's ladeens in 2006 and last year James Horan being grilled by a fellow clubman ( I suspected that to be a bit of a plant tbh, doin a devil's advocate) about issues arising from last years AI final.
I d prefer to ask the questions now. October should be about oktoberfest not about wondering about ifs, buts, and maybes.   

We'll finally Moy your spitting it out. After months of innuendo and suggestions that wonder boy was hard done by and a victim of some conspiracy finally your letting the mask slip. The bit in bold above tells you everything you need to know about this situation. He decided he'd already done enough of this stuff. Ah sure that's fine Evan come back in April or whenever suits and we'll take it from their. Sure what would them fancy ass trainers that have been watching this kid a couple of nights a week know.

Nah, I dont think so.  And there is no doubt that he was hard done by last summer. But I also believe he should have rejoined the set-up when requested to do so but he didn t. 20 year olds don t always do the smart thing. The thing is he s probably worked as hard as anybody on the panel since and had serious spring form. But it looks like it s over for him.

Moysider. I agree wholeheartedly with this post, after finding myself disagreeing with the tone, if not the content, of your posts on this whole sorry saga to date.

Although I appreciate that I am far removed from the situation and you are more involved (for want of a better word) and I understand that your passion stems from the want to have the best team possible, the underlined bit above is the crux of it for me.

I don't agree this is the end for him, it sounds like he is too stubborn to come back, but if he gets over this, I believe Horan (or another manager) would allow him to try out for the squad next year.

[mayoman dan]

I dunno how this has got to this. I believe that the lad was invited with other younger lads to take part in a conditioning programme in October. Likes of young Coen, Loftus, O Shea, O Connor lets say. He declined because he d already done a lot of that stuff and anybody that has seen him lately will know he has enough done. A lot of young lads do too much, lose pace and flexibility and end up useless
It s not like he was given a special individual invitation. Edit; I m sure the request was by text and reply likewise.
I ve seen him play twice recently. In what turned out to be an U21 team that was way undercooked. Yet he scored goals that had mammies and daddies of the other lads from south, east and west , skaking their heads and asking 'what the hell is going on'?
The thing is we are very close. And I remember the October bloodletting too many times. Willie Feeley's ladeens in 2006 and last year James Horan being grilled by a fellow clubman ( I suspected that to be a bit of a plant tbh, doin a devil's advocate) about issues arising from last years AI final.
I d prefer to ask the questions now. October should be about oktoberfest not about wondering about ifs, buts, and maybes.   

We'll finally Moy your spitting it out. After months of innuendo and suggestions that wonder boy was hard done by and a victim of some conspiracy finally your letting the mask slip. The bit in bold above tells you everything you need to know about this situation. He decided he'd already done enough of this stuff. Ah sure that's fine Evan come back in April or whenever suits and we'll take it from their. Sure what would them fancy ass trainers that have been watching this kid a couple of nights a week know.

Nah, I dont think so.  And there is no doubt that he was hard done by last summer. But I also believe he should have rejoined the set-up when requested to do so but he didn t. 20 year olds don t always do the smart thing. The thing is he s probably worked as hard as anybody on the panel since and had serious spring form. But it looks like it s over for him.

Moysider. I agree wholeheartedly with this post, after finding myself disagreeing with the tone, if not the content, of your posts on this whole sorry saga to date.

Although I appreciate that I am far removed from the situation and you are more involved (for want of a better word) and I understand that your passion stems from the want to have the best team possible, the underlined bit above is the crux of it for me.

I don't agree this is the end for him, it sounds like he is too stubborn to come back, but if he gets over this, I believe Horan (or another manager) would allow him to try out for the squad next year.

Next year things might be an awful lot different.We might not be challenging for the big one like were all hoping/expecting this year.I think we all agree were well covered from 1 to 9.Things seem to be taking shape in the forwards but id imagine theres still a corner forward spot up for grabs.We can win sam with the forwards we have but i believe our chances improve greatly if Regan is on board.Regan was treated badly last summer but he should have rejoined the panel when asked he wont get anywhere by sulking. its a lose lose situation for Regan himself and for the Mayo team and supporters.

[maigheo]

Good to see you cleared that up Moysider and it is such a pity that Regan did not join the panel this year as natural corner forwards are not exactly falling off trees here in Mayo and it may turn out to be one of the great regrets of his sporting life if things work out well  on the 4th sundaay in september for this current team.I suppose it will be up to Pat Holmes to entice him back to the panel next  year

[sans pessimism]

I see Pat Holmes has stepped down as Castlebar manager.I guess it is all set up for him to step in when James Horan completes his final year in charge of Mayo,hopefully after annexing Sam next September.

My first thought on Monday after the club final was , Holmes will not get the hot seat now, his job was to figure out how to stop Connolly run riot after the first half minimum , he did nothing to address the problem.

A
It might be raw for Castlebar folk but for Mayo it s probably a blessing in disguise.

Why? It gives the Mitchels to make a go for it again and at the very least retain our county and Connacht titles.

I wonder what Castlebar lads on here think of Holmes as a manager.
I never rated him highly as a player or as the Mayo manager either. Maybe others think differently.
As far as I can recall, nobody was sorry to see him go when he stepped down from that job but lots were happy to have John Maughan back again

we're like dogs chasing cars-before the first one has passed,we're on to the next one that moves.

[Lar Naparka]

Even with their most influential player sent off and with Connolly able to run riot, Castlebar were still getting more scores than the Vins. The HT score was 0-9 to 2-3 i.e. nine scores to five and Connolly had set up both goals.

In fairness St Vincents were wasteful and the Castlebar goalkeeper was keeping his side in the game.

You're right on both counts but they are two of the reasons that the  Vins were finding it harder to score than Castlebar.
BTW, I seem to be the only one who thought the overall standard of play was dire.
Both teams engaged in pointless flooting about, hand passing from one player to the next with both passer and receiver standing still. The fella getting the pass then looked about for someone to take the ball from him  and no one was prepared to show for the ball or to start  to run into position.
I counted a sequence of 12 passes in one Castlebar attack where the lad who gave the first pass wound up getting the last one without  moving any closer to goal.
As often as not, the "attack" broke down and resulted in a turnover with the ball being hoofed down the field so the other side could start doing the same thing. l know that's over-simplifying things but I don't think it's not too far off the mark.

[Rossfan]

BTW, I seem to be the only one who thought the overall standard of play was dire.

Hope you're not too upset but I agree with you for one.

[ross4life]

BTW, I seem to be the only one who thought the overall standard of play was dire.

Hope you're not too upset but I agree with you for one.

Normal standard for club football. TBH i thought it was decent AI final, better one last year though.

[rodney trotter]

Good article on Philly McMahon http://t.co/ka4QoF0lMV

[Hound]

The current unavailable list is
McMahon, O'Carroll, O'Brien
McCarthy, Brennan, McCaffrey, Lowndes
Bastick
Flynn, Kilkenny, Connolly, Rock,
Bernard, Mannion, McManamon, Costello
and a couple of others.

Update on Dublin player availability:

Cian O'Sullivan added to injury list,
O'Carroll, McManamon, McCarthy removed from it.