Ground hurling v ground Gaelic football

Started by Eamonnca1, March 12, 2014, 06:41:45 PM

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Eamonnca1

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on football, so these questions are out of curiosity.

In hurling, if the ball's in front of the goals (your own or the opposition's) it's customary to "pull on it" and just hit it on the ground because it's quicker.  In fact trying to pick up the ball right in front of your own crowded goals is frowned upon.  The skills of ground hurling are revered in the GAA and a lot of time is spent practicing them in training.

In Gaelic football, every time I've seen someone kick the ball on the ground the reaction from the sideline is always "pick up the effing ball, this isn't soccer."  I've never heard a hurling coach roaring "pick up the effing ball, this isn't hockey!"

Is there a tactical reason for this or is it a cultural aversion to soccer?  I've seen situations in Gaelic football where I think it would be better to just kick the ball directly on the ground, but it seldom happens.  I once saw a footballer getting boxed in on the end line with the ball at his feet, and he did a soccer style dribble to get out of it before picking up and scoring. Nobody saw that coming. Surely some of the skills of soccer have their uses in Gaelic football? Are players being pressured into avoiding the use of potentially useful ground-based skills for ideological reasons?  Or is football different enough from hurling that different tactics have to apply?

blanketattack

Clearing a Gaelic football off the ground is much more likely to be blocked or rebound off a player back into a dangerous area. Also, clearing off the ground when under pressure and without a run up is unlikely to go more than 30 yards especially on a muddy pitch.

There are definitely some uses for dribbling but any dribbling that went on when I was playing underage usually ended up with the ref blowing for a free.

seafoid

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2014, 06:41:45 PM
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on football, so these questions are out of curiosity.

In hurling, if the ball's in front of the goals (your own or the opposition's) it's customary to "pull on it" and just hit it on the ground because it's quicker.  In fact trying to pick up the ball right in front of your own crowded goals is frowned upon.  The skills of ground hurling are revered in the GAA and a lot of time is spent practicing them in training.

In Gaelic football, every time I've seen someone kick the ball on the ground the reaction from the sideline is always "pick up the effing ball, this isn't soccer."  I've never heard a hurling coach roaring "pick up the effing ball, this isn't hockey!"

Is there a tactical reason for this or is it a cultural aversion to soccer?  I've seen situations in Gaelic football where I think it would be better to just kick the ball directly on the ground, but it seldom happens.  I once saw a footballer getting boxed in on the end line with the ball at his feet, and he did a soccer style dribble to get out of it before picking up and scoring. Nobody saw that coming. Surely some of the skills of soccer have their uses in Gaelic football? Are players being pressured into avoiding the use of potentially useful ground-based skills for ideological reasons?  Or is football different enough from hurling that different tactics have to apply?
Ground hurling is sacred.
It is what marks us out as a royal nation.
Fuball is a mongrel sport. Arseboxing and Blanket defences have no place in Kilkenny. 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

waterfordlad

Ground hurling is almost non existent in modern hurling in the last 5 to 10 years. One of the worst aspects in modern hurling is 7 or 8 players scrambling around to try pick up the ball , a stalemate developing and the ref having to stop the game the throw in the ball and the same happening again as no-one is prepared to pull on the ball and risk giving it away. It happened numerous times in Walsh Park last Sunday on the heavy ground.
It's similar in Gaelic football as if you give the ball away the opposition can hold on the ball so players won't risk giving the ball away.
I presume anyone currently playing will back up that this is what their coaches are telling them to do.

Jinxy

If you were any use you'd be playing.

theticklemister

Simple answer lads, ye bend your back and make an effort to pick up the ball and you get touched ye get a free out, that is why you here 'Bend your f**king back!'

seafoid

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

haranguerer

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2014, 06:41:45 PM
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on football, so these questions are out of curiosity.

In hurling, if the ball's in front of the goals (your own or the opposition's) it's customary to "pull on it" and just hit it on the ground because it's quicker.  In fact trying to pick up the ball right in front of your own crowded goals is frowned upon.  The skills of ground hurling are revered in the GAA and a lot of time is spent practicing them in training.

In Gaelic football, every time I've seen someone kick the ball on the ground the reaction from the sideline is always "pick up the effing ball, this isn't soccer."  I've never heard a hurling coach roaring "pick up the effing ball, this isn't hockey!"


Its probably to do with a few things - 1 being goals being much easier scored in hurling, if the balls in round there its best just to get it out and give away the point rather than the goal. In football if you're in position to kick it you're in position to pick it up, and once you have the ball up its a lot harder to get it off you than hurling.

johnneycool

Quote from: waterfordlad on March 12, 2014, 08:00:34 PM
Ground hurling is almost non existent in modern hurling in the last 5 to 10 years. One of the worst aspects in modern hurling is 7 or 8 players scrambling around to try pick up the ball , a stalemate developing and the ref having to stop the game the throw in the ball and the same happening again as no-one is prepared to pull on the ball and risk giving it away. It happened numerous times in Walsh Park last Sunday on the heavy ground.
It's similar in Gaelic football as if you give the ball away the opposition can hold on the ball so players won't risk giving the ball away.
I presume anyone currently playing will back up that this is what their coaches are telling them to do.

Ground hurling by some top coaches is seen as too random and statistically more likely to give the ball away to the opposition. Valid enough point, but that bunching shíte you see now is a curse on hurling, which ultimately ends up in a throw ball and hey presto we're back to the bunching.

IMO, the physically smaller teams can't afford to get into the rolling maul of hurling with the bigger teams as they're going to lose in the exchanges, so why not pull on the ball out of the ruck and go after it, or even plan to have lads on the periphery to pick up the scraps. In saying that some lad going in pulling will almost certainly cause a bit of collateral damage and pick up a few cards, but not in the manly Kilkenny way..

Try to raise a ball on the edge of the square is a mortal sin, especially for an attacker as very seldom they'll be allowed to hit the ball even if they manage to get it into their hand. Many a water bottle has hit the ground in anger when a forward tries it.

Eamonnca1

Good commentary here. Thanks for all the insights!

thejuice

I think we do the game a disservice by discouraging foot skills. Most soccer skills are transferable to Gaelic and aren't against the rules so why not, if they can be of an advantage to you then use them. After all if you learn these skills with an oneills as I did then they are rightly just as much Gaelic football skills as they are soccer skills.
It won't be the next manager but the one after that Meath will become competitive again - MO'D 2016

BennyHarp

If you kicked a ball along the ground when you should have bent yer back, then, its most likely that you, your family and all the future generations of your family would be labelled "yella" for eternity - its not worth it!
That was never a square ball!!

The Gs Man

Seen a lad head the ball into the net, soccer style.  He was put out of the country.
Keep 'er lit

DJGaliv

In training from u10 to minor if we ever dribbled the ball along the ground it would be a free against us. The referee appears to take the same outlook in senior games. If a player is dribbling the ball along the ground you have carte blanche to clean him out of it and stop that soccer rubbish.


smort

Quote from: The Gs Man on March 14, 2014, 10:51:56 AM
Seen a lad head the ball into the net, soccer style.  He was put out of the country.

Quote from: DJGaliv on March 14, 2014, 11:36:58 AM
In training from u10 to minor if we ever dribbled the ball along the ground it would be a free against us. The referee appears to take the same outlook in senior games. If a player is dribbling the ball along the ground you have carte blanche to clean him out of it and stop that soccer rubbish.

Quote from: BennyHarp on March 14, 2014, 10:44:28 AM
If you kicked a ball along the ground when you should have bent yer back, then, its most likely that you, your family and all the future generations of your family would be labelled "yella" for eternity - its not worth it!

These three comments sum up views on 'ground gaelic football'

Funny because they are true