Mayo V Cork. 16/03/13. McHale Park

[Syferus]

The young Aughamore man had another good day.

[Syferus]

The Tanned One is 'delighted' Cork scored a goal

[maigheo]

Fintan Gould black carded. 3.12 to 1.11

[maigheo]

Cillian OConnor with a goal.4.12 to 1.11

[maigheo]

FT mayo 4.12 cork 2.14

[Lar Naparka]

I hope Mayo don't share your delusion. Blaming the manager is to ignore the real issues.

I'm afraid many do.
For them, it's a classic case of the emperor with no clothes syndrome.
Mayo lost the AI in 2012 and 2013 because the forwards weren't good enough- plain and simple. Horan knows this and has been doing his damndest to come up with a workaround to minimise the problem  but with limited success to date.
It would greatly help the cause if both Andy Moran and Cillian O'Connor were fully fit and in top form but that's by no mean a given in either case.
I don't think we're absolutely beaten before the championship begins either as luck is a  variable and can go either with or against us  and it has never been kind to us in recent years.

You're contradicting yourself there Lar. If Mayo don't have the forwards, then it doesn't matter how fit or in form they are, as they'll never be good enough. If, however, Moran and O'Connor being fully fit and in form is the difference-maker, then Mayo have had the forwards all the time, and the argument that Mayo don't have the forwards isn't true. You can't have it both ways.

Besides. You can't throw a brick in Cork without hitting a forward and how much good has that done them lately? Zools?

Bedad, Iolar, an rud is annamh is iontach!
I seldom disagree with you but this is one of those times. I'm in Zulu's corner on this one.
I said, "Mayo lost the AI in 2012 and 2013 because the forwards weren't good enough- plain and simple."
I see nowt wrong with that. The stats are there. Look at the scoring returns (from play) of the Mayo forward in both games and you'll see what I mean.
Of the six that started against Donegal, only Kevin Mac (0-2) and  Mick Conroy (0-1) scored from play.
Donegal didn't even bother to contest Mayo kickouts (kicks out?) in the second half; they were confident that the Mayo forwards wouldn't score a goal. They were well and truly proved  right.
Only Andy (1-2) and Keith (0-1) scored from play against the Dubs.
I did say that if Andy and Cillian had been fit, it might have made all the difference last year-  but mainly because the Dubs had only 13 fit men for the final 20 minutes.
Those ain't the sort of returns that win All Irelands.

[IolarCoisCuain]

I hope Mayo don't share your delusion. Blaming the manager is to ignore the real issues.

I'm afraid many do.
For them, it's a classic case of the emperor with no clothes syndrome.
Mayo lost the AI in 2012 and 2013 because the forwards weren't good enough- plain and simple. Horan knows this and has been doing his damndest to come up with a workaround to minimise the problem  but with limited success to date.
It would greatly help the cause if both Andy Moran and Cillian O'Connor were fully fit and in top form but that's by no mean a given in either case.
I don't think we're absolutely beaten before the championship begins either as luck is a  variable and can go either with or against us  and it has never been kind to us in recent years.

You're contradicting yourself there Lar. If Mayo don't have the forwards, then it doesn't matter how fit or in form they are, as they'll never be good enough. If, however, Moran and O'Connor being fully fit and in form is the difference-maker, then Mayo have had the forwards all the time, and the argument that Mayo don't have the forwards isn't true. You can't have it both ways.

Besides. You can't throw a brick in Cork without hitting a forward and how much good has that done them lately? Zools?

Bedad, Iolar, an rud is annamh is iontach!
I seldom disagree with you but this is one of those times. I'm in Zulu's corner on this one.
I said, "Mayo lost the AI in 2012 and 2013 because the forwards weren't good enough- plain and simple."
I see nowt wrong with that. The stats are there. Look at the scoring returns (from play) of the Mayo forward in both games and you'll see what I mean.
Of the six that started against Donegal, only Kevin Mac (0-2) and  Mick Conroy (0-1) scored from play.
Donegal didn't even bother to contest Mayo kickouts (kicks out?) in the second half; they were confident that the Mayo forwards wouldn't score a goal. They were well and truly proved  right.
Only Andy (1-2) and Keith (0-1) scored from play against the Dubs.
I did say that if Andy and Cillian had been fit, it might have made all the difference last year-  but mainly because the Dubs had only 13 fit men for the final 20 minutes.
Those ain't the sort of returns that win All Irelands.

You're confusing "aren't good enough" with "didn't play well enough." They're not the same things.

[From the Bunker]

Good win! Cork were up and down. Missed plethora of goal and point chances. Scoreline was strange. We ended up only winning by 4 in the end and if Cork who were Jeckyl and Hyde had a bit more guile then we could have been in trouble. The changes made (when  the game was over) watered us down a bit too much and we struggled with possession. In the end the Goal from O'Connor settled the ship. We are now taking shape and you can see who is coming into contention for the summer and who will struggle to make the starting line up or even the squad. Higgins has to stay in the half forward line. Gibbons is hot at the moment and hopefully he carries this into the summer. Had a walk on the pitch after the game. Very lumpy and dead. I suppose the Under 21's on Wednesday dug it up a bit. To mention only a few.... Freeman and Doc were immense. 

[Lar Naparka]

I hope Mayo don't share your delusion. Blaming the manager is to ignore the real issues.

I'm afraid many do.
For them, it's a classic case of the emperor with no clothes syndrome.
Mayo lost the AI in 2012 and 2013 because the forwards weren't good enough- plain and simple. Horan knows this and has been doing his damndest to come up with a workaround to minimise the problem  but with limited success to date.
It would greatly help the cause if both Andy Moran and Cillian O'Connor were fully fit and in top form but that's by no mean a given in either case.
I don't think we're absolutely beaten before the championship begins either as luck is a  variable and can go either with or against us  and it has never been kind to us in recent years.

You're contradicting yourself there Lar. If Mayo don't have the forwards, then it doesn't matter how fit or in form they are, as they'll never be good enough. If, however, Moran and O'Connor being fully fit and in form is the difference-maker, then Mayo have had the forwards all the time, and the argument that Mayo don't have the forwards isn't true. You can't have it both ways.

Besides. You can't throw a brick in Cork without hitting a forward and how much good has that done them lately? Zools?

Bedad, Iolar, an rud is annamh is iontach!
I seldom disagree with you but this is one of those times. I'm in Zulu's corner on this one.
I said, "Mayo lost the AI in 2012 and 2013 because the forwards weren't good enough- plain and simple."
I see nowt wrong with that. The stats are there. Look at the scoring returns (from play) of the Mayo forward in both games and you'll see what I mean.
Of the six that started against Donegal, only Kevin Mac (0-2) and  Mick Conroy (0-1) scored from play.
Donegal didn't even bother to contest Mayo kickouts (kicks out?) in the second half; they were confident that the Mayo forwards wouldn't score a goal. They were well and truly proved  right.
Only Andy (1-2) and Keith (0-1) scored from play against the Dubs.
I did say that if Andy and Cillian had been fit, it might have made all the difference last year-  but mainly because the Dubs had only 13 fit men for the final 20 minutes.
Those ain't the sort of returns that win All Irelands.

You're confusing "aren't good enough" with "didn't play well enough." They're not the same things.

I think you are confusing tenses here.
I said , "the forwards weren't good enough" and I was referring to the scores from open play (by the forwards)  in both AIs.
Given the stats I quoted, I'm happy with what I've said.

[moysider]

For the second game in a row it was like watching 2 different Mayo teams in the one match.

When were in full flow we were irresistible and should (not could) have had scored 4 more goals.

But for the first 10 mins we were nowhere and for the last 20 we were hanging on.

The bad start. We had a great goal chance to settle us in but blew it. We also got the match ups at the back sorted after Hurleys great start to the game and when Caff was switched we grand after that. The last 20 mins can be put down to the replacing of Higgins, Freeman, Gibbons and O Shea maybe. We also got bogged down with players trying to run through bodies. When we moved the ball we were unplayable. Why we drift away from that I dunno. We ve made a habit of becoming idle while ahead. A few lazy errors let Cork in for soft scores late on. I suppose Cork had to respond as well because they were looking at a serious beating.

Some serious performances today again. Thought Caff was brilliant. Keegan and Boyle again. Gibbons had a great game. So had McLoughlin who looks back to his clever best. Cillian O Connor may need a few games to get up to speed but showed some glimpses of class. Freeman threatened all the time and could have had a 3 goal haul. He should be left at ff and just get on with it. Doc had some quality scores and I heard Midwest Radio gave him man of match. A good run in the team would see him improve even more. I agree with Bunker that Higgins is definately giving us something in the half forward line. This was his best showing and he is obviously getting back up to speed. As Bunker said things are starting to take shape. With the Castlebar lads to return we re not looking too bad.

I know likes of Zulu and Lar do not rate out forwards but if I was to choose a set from today's game I d have taken our lot. Hurley gave Caff less grief than Freeman gave Cadogan. It was nice to see that, unlike a few years ago, the Mayo players not taking any shite from likes of Cadogan.
As things stand the leading forwards at the moment are McLoughlin, O Connor, Higgins, Freeman and Doherty.
Surprised Gallagher did not get a run today.
Andy is injured.
Dillon has not come back yet.
Conroy, Varley, Coen and Sweeney have got some time with mixed results.

[Zulu]

Moy I think it's unfair to say myself and Lar do not rate the forwards. Lar is well able to speak and think for himself but I'd suggest he shares my opinion that the Mayo forwards are good but not exceptional. You don't make two All Irelands in a row without good forwards but the top class ones tend to deliver on the big days. In my opinion Mayo have a team capable of winning the All Ireland but there are a few forward lines better than Mayo's. This means Mayo have to dominate 1-9 to win All Irelands and that is a big ask against the top teams. Mayo haven't a single forward who would definitely make the 'Irish' forward line, whereas Dublin have possibly 2-3, Donegal 1-2, Kerry 1-2, Cork 1 (at least) and it is these teams who are challenging for the All Ireland. COC may become one of these players but by the time he does Dillon and Moran will probably be gone.

[Syferus]

Moy I think it's unfair to say myself and Lar do not rate the forwards. Lar is well able to speak and think for himself but I'd suggest he shares my opinion that the Mayo forwards are good but not exceptional. You don't make two All Irelands in a row without good forwards but the top class ones tend to deliver on the big days. In my opinion Mayo have a team capable of winning the All Ireland but there are a few forward lines better than Mayo's. This means Mayo have to dominate 1-9 to win All Irelands and that is a big ask against the top teams. Mayo haven't a single forward who would definitely make the 'Irish' forward line, whereas Dublin have possibly 2-3, Donegal 1-2, Kerry 1-2, Cork 1 (at least) and it is these teams who are challenging for the All Ireland. COC may become one of these players but by the time he does Dillon and Moran will probably be gone.

It helps if you keep your starting forward line on for more than 15 minutes.

[Zulu]

There isn't a single manager in the history of sport who doesn't make mistakes or wouldn't change a few things with hindsight. However, that's not the main reason Mayo didn't win, the main reason is they didn't take enough of their chances. They had plenty in the first half of last years All Ireland but missed them. Even today Moy says they should have had 4 more goals, the elite forwards take more of these than the Mayo lads.

[Farrandeelin]

moy, I agree with your assessment of the match 100%. I suppose Horan wanted to change the players to give opportunities to fellas who were borderline (in his mind anyway). A win is a win at this stage and it's 2 points in the bag.

[Captain Obvious]

There isn't a single manager in the history of sport who doesn't make mistakes or wouldn't change a few things with hindsight. However, that's not the main reason Mayo didn't win, the main reason is they didn't take enough of their chances. They had plenty in the first half of last years All Ireland but missed them. Even today Moy says they should have had 4 more goals, the elite forwards take more of these than the Mayo lads.

+1

If Mayo had a forward like Bernard Brogan they would have won the last two All Irelands.