ukraine regime change

[Mike Sheehy]

Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.

Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.

Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.

Always looking for the jewish angle .... . Does every world conflict involve a jewish/US conspiracy ?

You sad anti-Semitic ****.

[Main Street]

Crimea was always (for the most part) Russian

Bollix. There were feck all Russians there until the 19th century, since when they substantially ethnically cleansed the place.

Russia had control of the place since 1800 and Russians moved in, Tatars were 'moved out'.
It's not an artificially created  statelet to ensure a russian majority. And that autonomous state was somehow thrown into the Ukraine for some strange reason. It actually should have stayed in the Russian federation or become independent in 1992.
As I pointed out, according to the maths of the referendum,  even a majority of the small ethnic groups would prefer moving towards the Russia federation than remaining in the Ukraine. There is no evidence of the vote being rigged but plenty of evidence that the vote was regular.
Why do Ukraine have to be the masters of the Crimea?
What changed public opinion in the Crimea .

from May 2013 
http://iri.org/sites/default/files/2013%20October%207%20Survey%20of%20Crimean%20Public%20Opinion,%20May%2016-30,%202013.pdf
with a non hostile (pro Russian) Ukrainian president at the helm.
59% have  Russian  ethnicity and 82% use Russian language in their homes.  Opinion went from over half of the total population content with their autonomous status inside the Ukraine with just a 25% minority wanting to join Russia federation, to 85% for joining the Russia federation March 2014
This issue is to do with Crimea and just what swung their opinion that way? Ukraine are not endowed with a mandate from God to be the masters of Crimea. Crimians have their own opinion on that matter. Why did Crimians swing so radically towards Russia? Maybe what was happening in Ukraine was not viewed in the same light in Crimea? And the first hit the new gov in Ukraine did  was against the Russian language didn't help perceptions? Maybe Crimea being a relatively poor region were not keen for EU austerity?

[armaghniac]

Russia had control of the place since 1800 and Russians moved in, Tatars were 'moved out'.

That's what I said, so we agree that the Russians were not "always" there.

It's not an artificially created  statelet to ensure a russian majority

Oh right, why were the Tatars moved out then?

[Main Street]

Russia had control of the place since 1800 and Russians moved in, Tatars were 'moved out'.

That's what I said, so we agree that the Russians were not "always" there.

It's not an artificially created  statelet to ensure a russian majority

Oh right, why were the Tatars moved out then?

That's another question and doesn't address what I wrote, nor does an answer to your question, challenge what I wrote.
In feudal times, Crimea was a new defined independent region but also newly unallied and unprotected. It was not an artificial statelet created out of a larger state to ensure a Russian majority. It existed before Russia swallowed it, plundered the Tatars and started the process of colonisation from 1800 onwards. Even in the Ukraine, Crimea had the status of an autonomous state.

Why were the Tatars moved out to begin with? Feudal times, feudal values, expansion, war, plunder, rape, pillage, a process that continued in various forms for another 160 years.
And that has little to do with the reality of 3 ethnic groups living in this autonomous region, voting to enter the Russian federation.
What matters most is how the minority ethnic groups in a region are treated,  not discriminated re language, culture, education and employment.
The 3 Baltic states have a very similar history together, but were a much different proposition than Crimea in their ability to declare independence post USSR. 

[muppet]

http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/

Play the above video.

Stop it whenever you choose and use this as the basis for an argument on the true borders of a given country.

[Rossfan]

Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.

Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.

Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.

Always looking for the jewish angle .... . Does every world conflict involve a jewish/US conspiracy ?

You sad anti-Semitic ****.

He's just pointing out what Israel has been at since 1967. Just facts you sad blinkered pro Israeli Kerryman.

As for Crimea wasn't it Kruschev ( a Ukranian??) gave Crimea to Ukraine when he became boss?
It didn't matter then as all the "Republics" were just County Council type things implementing politburo policy locally.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Right wing pro-Ukraine thugs filmed themselves forcing (quite aggressively) the head of the Ukraine state broadcaster to resign.

Ukrainian soldier shot in the Crimea.

Russian war-games and missile tests near Ukrainian border.

US-Poland war-games taking place.

US-Romania Navies completed exercise.

US-Baltic Navies planning war-games.

France planning to cancel it's sale of 2 Helicopter Carriers and several Mistral helicopters to Russia.

Crimean vote to leave Ukraine.

Tatar and Ukrainian boycott of vote.

Protesters in Moscow demanding their government stop.

Rising public voice in the West for Western governments to stop.

This is not going well at all.

[Syferus]

Rising public voice in the West? By the ladeens who go marching for every issue under the sun? The Russians will get the Crimea and we'll all forget about it in a few years. There's no appetite for a real confrontation - hell, even Ukraine themselves aren't up for it - and Putin knows that very well.

[Main Street]

Crimea was always going to be a lost cause, that's not what's at stake for the West or Russia. There are greater fish to fry and nobody is going to weep that much for Crimea and Russia already had a military treaty to secure the naval base in Sevastopol.
The coup in the Ukraine has put a spanner in the works, Russia won't be able to destabilise it so easily now.

.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Surely any popular movements to reform Belarus are now dead.

[Pangurban]

Can Russia seriously be expected to negotiate with a bunch of unelected fascist thugs who are self declared Russian and Jew haters. Had the Russian foreign ninister Lavrov suggestion of a proper legal election in Ukraine followed by three way talks between the Russia,the West and the ukranians been followed, then the present volatile situation could have been avoided. Giving Russias legitimate strategic interests,, Putin had little option but to react as he did.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Why did he invade Georgia, yet has no problem with the quasi-dictators in Minsk or Almaty?

[muppet]

This all reminds me of the Bay of Pigs, Saddam's venture into Kuwait and Peter Robinson's invasion of Clontibret.

[Pangurban]

In response to an unprovoked attack on the Capital of South Ossettia by land and air bombardment, in the course of which large numbers of civilians and a number of U.N. authorised Russian peace keeping troops were killed.  The action against Georgia was short lived, and Russian troops withdrew once the crisis was dealt with

[armaghniac]

and Russian troops withdrew once the crisis was dealt with

Once the necessary intimidation was achieved.