When will your club start collective training sessions for the 2014 season ?

[blewuporstuffed]

Anyone any thoughts on spinning as an off season/preseaosn activity to build a bit of base fitness?

[supersub]

In all fairness 'road running' is a thing of the past in most (GAA) fitness circles. Yes distance running can be done but not miles and miles at a steady pace. I'm not getting into the good/bad/slow you down debate, I'm just stating what has become more the norm. Fartlek running and interval training is what most will be concentrating on cardiovascular wise to boost fitness at this stage, with varied distance sprints dispersed throughout the season. This coupled with proper use of a gym/exercises and practicing the basic skills is the mainstay of improving as a gaelic footballer/team. Obviously no two preseason schedules will be identical but if you don't have a constant mixture of all three of the above training methods you are on a hiding to nothing.

Have stated all of the above, you could go to the gym all over winter and not touch any running as someone has said and still be the fittest person in the squad come Jan/Feb because you don't necessarily need to do any running to keep your fitness/speed/sharpness/power. It is all situation/person specific at the end of the day and there is so much info out there from different people claiming to have the best methods.

[Bingo]

In all fairness 'road running' is a thing of the past in most (GAA) fitness circles. Yes distance running can be done but not miles and miles at a steady pace. I'm not getting into the good/bad/slow you down debate, I'm just stating what has become more the norm. Fartlek running and interval training is what most will be concentrating on cardiovascular wise to boost fitness at this stage, with varied distance sprints dispersed throughout the season. This coupled with proper use of a gym/exercises and practicing the basic skills is the mainstay of improving as a gaelic footballer/team. Obviously no two preseason schedules will be identical but if you don't have a constant mixture of all three of the above training methods you are on a hiding to nothing.

Have stated all of the above, you could go to the gym all over winter and not touch any running as someone has said and still be the fittest person in the squad come Jan/Feb because you don't necessarily need to do any running to keep your fitness/speed/sharpness/power. It is all situation/person specific at the end of the day and there is so much info out there from different people claiming to have the best methods.

Thats basically it in a nutshell. You'll come across teams who are collectively very fit and they'll all have arrived there at different ways.

[Jinxy]

One thing that annoys me is the "running on roads will only cause injuries, wear and tear etc etc". As if no-one has ever got injured from just running/playing/training on grass or from playing matches. By all accounts run and train on the surface you will be playing on.

Regardless of surfaces injuries are caused by incorrect form or running technique. Alot of people don't run as the body naturally intended, actually the vast majority don't, some bodies will adjust, others won't.

Read somewhere in an article about the damage running can do and he quoted someone who ran long distances and he had to get a knee replacement in later years. A doctor was asked about that and he said that on the same day it was likely that a dozen knee replacements where done and that he was likely the only one who had done long distance running. What had the other 11 people done to cause theres?

Look at the body mass of your average elite distance runner and look at the body mass of your average elite GAA player.
There's probably a 20kg difference for the same height.
That puts a lot more pressure on the joints and tendons, particularly on a hard surface like a road.
There is a massive difference between being conditioned to run on grass vs. the road.
I was quite a good runner in football terms but as soon as I was put on a road my feet and legs were screaming at me to stop.
That's where the body mass disparity really kicks in.

[Milltown Row2]

One thing that annoys me is the "running on roads will only cause injuries, wear and tear etc etc". As if no-one has ever got injured from just running/playing/training on grass or from playing matches. By all accounts run and train on the surface you will be playing on.

Regardless of surfaces injuries are caused by incorrect form or running technique. Alot of people don't run as the body naturally intended, actually the vast majority don't, some bodies will adjust, others won't.

Read somewhere in an article about the damage running can do and he quoted someone who ran long distances and he had to get a knee replacement in later years. A doctor was asked about that and he said that on the same day it was likely that a dozen knee replacements where done and that he was likely the only one who had done long distance running. What had the other 11 people done to cause theres?

Look at the body mass of your average elite distance runner and look at the body mass of your average elite GAA player.
There's probably a 20kg difference for the same height.
That puts a lot more pressure on the joints and tendons, particularly on a hard surface like a road.
There is a massive difference between being conditioned to run on grass vs. the road.
I was quite a good runner in football terms but as soon as I was put on a road my feet and legs were screaming at me to stop.
That's where the body mass disparity really kicks in.

Are you telling us you were/are a fat bastard??

[Bingo]

One thing that annoys me is the "running on roads will only cause injuries, wear and tear etc etc". As if no-one has ever got injured from just running/playing/training on grass or from playing matches. By all accounts run and train on the surface you will be playing on.

Regardless of surfaces injuries are caused by incorrect form or running technique. Alot of people don't run as the body naturally intended, actually the vast majority don't, some bodies will adjust, others won't.

Read somewhere in an article about the damage running can do and he quoted someone who ran long distances and he had to get a knee replacement in later years. A doctor was asked about that and he said that on the same day it was likely that a dozen knee replacements where done and that he was likely the only one who had done long distance running. What had the other 11 people done to cause theres?

Look at the body mass of your average elite distance runner and look at the body mass of your average elite GAA player.
There's probably a 20kg difference for the same height.
That puts a lot more pressure on the joints and tendons, particularly on a hard surface like a road.
There is a massive difference between being conditioned to run on grass vs. the road.
I was quite a good runner in football terms but as soon as I was put on a road my feet and legs were screaming at me to stop.
That's where the body mass disparity really kicks in.

I'm not talking about elite anyone on either side. By sounds of it you where carrying weight and it impacted when you hit the road 

My point was that its all on the individual and what one can do, another may not. One person will have a knee replaced from running on roads, another will have it replaced from playing football on grass pitches all their lives. In between you'll have dozens who will will do both and not have any major illments.

[Jinxy]

I was high-fetching midfielder sized as opposed to just being a fat b*st*rd!

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

I know of one Inter-county trainer who has got excellent fitness results from various teams and 70%-75% of the sprints he does at 100% effort are less than 30m...It probably ties into the average top speed sprint during games I would guess.


What happens when he loses the ball and has to sprint 30m back? He'd be fcuked doing 60m

I said 70-75% was less than 30m...25-30% was greater than 30m, which, I'm guessing may correspond to the ratio of longer sprints to short sprints in actual game play? If you think about it, 25-30% of your total sprint work for a county team is actually a hell of a lot of work. I also said that I was talking about the sprints at 100% effort...there was a lot of accel/decel drills...or build-up sprints..as in the example I gave above.

[Bingo]

I was high-fetching midfielder sized as opposed to just being a fat b*st*rd!

I know your type, arse at the back, belly at the front and no one could get near the ball landing 

Then you'd belt the ball into Joe McNally me in the corner

[neilthemac]

Nobody is getting in a huff, I would just prefer people to get proper information and knowledge. Talk to any physio or strength and conditioning coach - so many problems caused by people going off doing lots of running with poor technique when really they need the opposite.

A good off season training should combine some flexibility work, mobility work, power exercises - eg plyometrics, weighted exercises with combination of a push and pull for upper and lower body, and some cardio (play some sort of a conditioned game or exercises at the end). More or less in that order.

That spectrum of training will help prevent injuries come the the actual pre season training, and get the players in reasonable shape.

If a player wants to go off and run down a road at night then advise them a field is better for them

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Nobody is getting in a huff, I would just prefer people to get proper information and knowledge. Talk to any physio or strength and conditioning coach - so many problems caused by people going off doing lots of running with poor technique when really they need the opposite.

A good off season training should combine some flexibility work, mobility work, power exercises - eg plyometrics, weighted exercises with combination of a push and pull for upper and lower body, and some cardio (play some sort of a conditioned game or exercises at the end). More or less in that order.

That spectrum of training will help prevent injuries come the the actual pre season training, and get the players in reasonable shape.

If a player wants to go off and run down a road at night then advise them a field is better for them

Yeah would agree with all the above.

[Bingo]

The key thing you said there is doing lots of running with poor technique, sure you apply that to all off season stuff. Just as bad and perhaps more damaging to do lots of strength and conditioning  work with poor technique.

[INDIANA]

The key thing you said there is doing lots of running with poor technique, sure you apply that to all off season stuff. Just as bad and perhaps more damaging to do lots of strength and conditioning  work with poor technique.

True I often see lads doing poor squats for example.

But a lot of that's down to the individual thinking he knows it all and not asking coaches how to lift properly.

Running the roads is fine for cardiovascular health but if you're in any way a serious GAA player its a waste of time in my opinion.

And using professional athletes like AFL players attempting to run sub Olympic times at 3km is a poor example as a basis for players in collision sports to be running long distances.

I've witnessed AFL pre-seasons my self as I'm sure others here haveand its virtually all power based.

Serious studies only coming out in the last 12 months in Australia asking the question are they doing too much running in pre-season.

They do boxing, cycling, swimming and a variety of other cardiovascular activities to improve aerobic fitness. Anything to keep players limbs off the roads.

Sure you'll always get the odd S&C coach who runs his players into oblivion but because his players are so skilled they'll win the title. Then that will be seen as the way forward. And the dumb ones will start running 10-12 km in training. But the smart coaches won.t

As someone says above if you can't kick the ball it makes no difference. Thats the beauty of GAA - skill will always dominate because its a multi directional game..

In rugby for example the sport is gone. All gym monkeys now.

Donegal have trained 13 times in the last 7 days. Madness IMO.!

[Zulu]

Nobody is getting in a huff, I would just prefer people to get proper information and knowledge.

Then you stop posting incorrect information or information taken out of context.

Talk to any physio or strength and conditioning coach - so many problems caused by people going off doing lots of running with poor technique when really they need the opposite.

I've worked with many physios and S&C coaches, some who work at international level and none of them would say it's a simple as that. If we were to accept your point about running then recreational running would come with the kind of health warning cigarets have.

A good off season training should combine some flexibility work, mobility work, power exercises - eg plyometrics, weighted exercises with combination of a push and pull for upper and lower body, and some cardio (play some sort of a conditioned game or exercises at the end). More or less in that order.

Flexibility, mobility? Yes. Plyometrics during preseason? No. You say running with poor technique is an injury risk but doing plyometric work with poor technique is far more risky.

AZ pointed out that we are arguing about shades of grey, which is partly true but you an Indy have made incorrect statements and don't seem to appreciate that running 3-5k as part of your overall training is fine. Nobody is saying you do this only so why you seem to think we are saying that is beyond me.

You could do 100 different things in preseason training and as long as they were sensibly structured then they'd all be fine, including a bit of running.

[INDIANA]

Nobody is getting in a huff, I would just prefer people to get proper information and knowledge.

Then you stop posting incorrect information or information taken out of context.

Talk to any physio or strength and conditioning coach - so many problems caused by people going off doing lots of running with poor technique when really they need the opposite.

I've worked with many physios and S&C coaches, some who work at international level and none of them would say it's a simple as that. If we were to accept your point about running then recreational running would come with the kind of health warning cigarets have.

A good off season training should combine some flexibility work, mobility work, power exercises - eg plyometrics, weighted exercises with combination of a push and pull for upper and lower body, and some cardio (play some sort of a conditioned game or exercises at the end). More or less in that order.

Flexibility, mobility? Yes. Plyometrics during preseason? No. You say running with poor technique is an injury risk but doing plyometric work with poor technique is far more risky.

AZ pointed out that we are raging about shades of grey, which is partly true but you an Indy have made incorrect statements and don't seem to appreciate that running 3-5k as part of your overall training is fine. Nobody is saying you do this only so why you seem to think we are saying that is beyond me.

You could do 100 different things in preseason training and as long as they were sensibly structured then they'd all be fine, including a bit of running.

In fairness its only your opinion.

I've no problem in stating that long distance running for a 3 month period will result in the individual being slower in a 20m sprint test.