Protestants and The GAA

[muppet]

rrhf - you're wasted here - you remind me of Joyce.......

[i]....and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.[/i]

Ah Pádraic,

but was it to Donellan or Seán Og he was talking?

[Applesisapples]

Whether we like it or not the GAA has at it's heart the catholic parish system and in many of those clubs their religion goes hand in hand with the club. It is what made the association strong, it united all strands of society in a way Protestants in Ireland could only look at with envy. I don't believe we should suddenly ditch this part of our heritage. That is not to say that we should force religion down anyone's throat. It is a part of Irishness that is being left behind, a process obviously accelerated by the scanals in the Irish church. However the way forward for the GAA is to create a situation where clubs who no longer have that affinity with the parish or who have members from other religions and none can have an ecumenical service or none as they see fit. I've read a lot of the posts on here and the common thread on this issue seems to be a blind hatred on the part of some of the catholic church, either because of the scandals or because they no longer see religion as being important to them. Which is fine and in a democracy this is their right. But those who still hold religion dear and who see beyond the Bishops to the good honest priests who did their best for the parish it's people and their club also have a right to see this refected in some way and it does not have to be shoved down the throats of the dissenters.

[Hardy]

Whether we like it or not the GAA has at it's heart the catholic parish system and in many of those clubs their religion goes hand in hand with the club. It is what made the association strong, it united all strands of society in a way Protestants in Ireland could only look at with envy. I don't believe we should suddenly ditch this part of our heritage. That is not to say that we should force religion down anyone's throat. It is a part of Irishness that is being left behind, a process obviously accelerated by the scanals in the Irish church. However the way forward for the GAA is to create a situation where clubs who no longer have that affinity with the parish or who have members from other religions and none can have an ecumenical service or none as they see fit. I've read a lot of the posts on here and the common thread on this issue seems to be a blind hatred on the part of some of the catholic church, either because of the scandals or because they no longer see religion as being important to them. Which is fine and in a democracy this is their right. But those who still hold religion dear and who see beyond the Bishops to the good honest priests who did their best for the parish it's people and their club also have a right to see this refected in some way and it does not have to be shoved down the throats of the dissenters.

If that's what you want, put a motion on the agenda of your club's AGM to have Rule 1.12 rescinded and/or to have special consideration for the Catholic church included in the constitution and see how you get on in the democratic process.

And if you succeed, I promise I won't come back here to complain that you shoved anything down my throat.

[deiseach]

If that's what you want, put a motion on the agenda of your club's AGM to have Rule 1.12 rescinded and/or to have special consideration for the Catholic church included in the constitution and see how you get on in the democratic process.

And if you succeed, I promise I won't come back here to complain that you shoved anything down my throat.

I think you've got this the wrong way round. If you think there is rule-breaking going on, you report it to the authorities. You don't ask those you think are breaking the rules to apply to the authorities to have the rules changed to accommodate their behaviour.

[Hardy]

If that's what you want, put a motion on the agenda of your club's AGM to have Rule 1.12 rescinded and/or to have special consideration for the Catholic church included in the constitution and see how you get on in the democratic process.

And if you succeed, I promise I won't come back here to complain that you shoved anything down my throat.

I think you've got this the wrong way round. If you think there is rule-breaking going on, you report it to the authorities. You don't ask those you think are breaking the rules to apply to the authorities to have the rules changed to accommodate their behaviour.

I thought I was reminding Applesisapples that if he wanted the rules changed there's a procedure that applies. I'm with the status quo on this one, as far as the rules go. No special consideration for any church or religion. Breach of the rules is a different matter. If I was to take responsibility for reporting every breach of rules to the authorities I'd be a very busy man.

[deiseach]

I thought I was reminding Applesisapples that if he wanted the rules changed there's a procedure that applies. I'm with the status quo on this one, as far as the rules go. No special consideration for any church or religion. Breach of the rules is a different matter. If I was to take responsibility for reporting every breach of rules to the authorities I'd be a very busy man.

Well, fine. Nothing will change then and seeing as that is what you want, happy days.

[armaghniac]

No special consideration for any church or religion.

Everyone agrees with this. Where the disagreement comes is whether this is achieved by allowing equal access for everyone or banning everyone.

[Hardy]

No special consideration for any church or religion.

Everyone agrees with this. Where the disagreement comes is whether this is achieved by allowing equal access for everyone or banning everyone.

I don't think it's a question either of allowing or banning. I think we observe the requirements of the rule if we simply don't officially promote any religion or discriminate against any religion. I think it works fine and is pretty well observed - completely so as regards the discrimination and for the most part as regards the promotion. It's my opinion that a religious service as an official agenda item on a GAA occasion is promotion of a particular religion and therefore a breach of the rule. There's no more to it than that, for me.

[Champion The Wonder Horse]

Whether we like it or not the GAA has at it's heart the catholic parish system and in many of those clubs their religion goes hand in hand with the club. It is what made the association strong, it united all strands of society in a way Protestants in Ireland could only look at with envy. I don't believe we should suddenly ditch this part of our heritage. That is not to say that we should force religion down anyone's throat. It is a part of Irishness that is being left behind, a process obviously accelerated by the scanals in the Irish church. However the way forward for the GAA is to create a situation where clubs who no longer have that affinity with the parish or who have members from other religions and none can have an ecumenical service or none as they see fit. I've read a lot of the posts on here and the common thread on this issue seems to be a blind hatred on the part of some of the catholic church, either because of the scandals or because they no longer see religion as being important to them. Which is fine and in a democracy this is their right. But those who still hold religion dear and who see beyond the Bishops to the good honest priests who did their best for the parish it's people and their club also have a right to see this refected in some way and it does not have to be shoved down the throats of the dissenters.

Were Protestants in Ireland not considered part of any strand of society?

I stopped reading after that line.

[armaghniac]

Were Protestants in Ireland not considered part of any strand of society?

Of course they were, Sam Maguire wasn't made unwelcome in the GAA because he was a Protestant.

The sad thing, though, is that a large proportion of Irish Protestants have themselves opted out of society and preferred to work against it. As you should know a horse cannot be made drink.

[Tubberman]

Were Protestants in Ireland not considered part of any strand of society?

Of course they were, Sam Maguire wasn't made unwelcome in the GAA because he was a Protestant.

The sad thing, though, is that a large proportion of Irish Protestants have themselves opted out of society and preferred to work against it. As you should know a horse cannot be made drink.

Especially not if they think the water is toxic

[Applesisapples]

Whether we like it or not the GAA has at it's heart the catholic parish system and in many of those clubs their religion goes hand in hand with the club. It is what made the association strong, it united all strands of society in a way Protestants in Ireland could only look at with envy. I don't believe we should suddenly ditch this part of our heritage. That is not to say that we should force religion down anyone's throat. It is a part of Irishness that is being left behind, a process obviously accelerated by the scanals in the Irish church. However the way forward for the GAA is to create a situation where clubs who no longer have that affinity with the parish or who have members from other religions and none can have an ecumenical service or none as they see fit. I've read a lot of the posts on here and the common thread on this issue seems to be a blind hatred on the part of some of the catholic church, either because of the scandals or because they no longer see religion as being important to them. Which is fine and in a democracy this is their right. But those who still hold religion dear and who see beyond the Bishops to the good honest priests who did their best for the parish it's people and their club also have a right to see this refected in some way and it does not have to be shoved down the throats of the dissenters.

If that's what you want, put a motion on the agenda of your club's AGM to have Rule 1.12 rescinded and/or to have special consideration for the Catholic church included in the constitution and see how you get on in the democratic process.

And if you succeed, I promise I won't come back here to complain that you shoved anything down my throat.

Why would I want to do that? It doesn't need to be a rule to reflect the ethos of the club. In fact my own club has a very non catholic and no religious ethos and thats the way I like it. I'm just saying that clubs have the right to reflect their beliefs history and culture and no one should feel threatened. I am in no way suggesting that the GAA gives the church any official status, but clubs and parishes may want to and that is their right.

[Applesisapples]

Whether we like it or not the GAA has at it's heart the catholic parish system and in many of those clubs their religion goes hand in hand with the club. It is what made the association strong, it united all strands of society in a way Protestants in Ireland could only look at with envy. I don't believe we should suddenly ditch this part of our heritage. That is not to say that we should force religion down anyone's throat. It is a part of Irishness that is being left behind, a process obviously accelerated by the scanals in the Irish church. However the way forward for the GAA is to create a situation where clubs who no longer have that affinity with the parish or who have members from other religions and none can have an ecumenical service or none as they see fit. I've read a lot of the posts on here and the common thread on this issue seems to be a blind hatred on the part of some of the catholic church, either because of the scandals or because they no longer see religion as being important to them. Which is fine and in a democracy this is their right. But those who still hold religion dear and who see beyond the Bishops to the good honest priests who did their best for the parish it's people and their club also have a right to see this refected in some way and it does not have to be shoved down the throats of the dissenters.

Were Protestants in Ireland not considered part of any strand of society?

I stopped reading after that line.

sorry I meant Catholic society.

[The Boy Wonder]

GAA Anti-Sectarian and Anti-Racist Policy
At Congress in 2009, rule 1.12 of the Official Guide was amended to state the following:

GAA Official Guide, Rule 1.12: The Association is Anti-Sectarian and Anti-Racist. Any conduct by deed, word or gesture of a sectarian or racist nature against any player, official, spectator or anyone else, in the course of activities organised by the Association, shall be deemed to have discredited the Association.
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I don't see how the GAA can be accused of breaching Rule 1.12 by allowing Mass be celebrated at Croke Park.
The GAA allows their facilities to be used for concerts, parties, convention, seminars etc. As with Mass on AI Finals day these are not official GAA events organised by the GAA. Was the party in Croker for Bertie Ahern in breach of this rule ?

Like another poster said - if anyone genuinely thinks that Rule 1.12 is being broken and that the GAA is thus behaving in a bigoted sectarian manner they should make a complaint to the GAA  (I couldn't see them getting too far). If they choose not to do so then I'd suspect that they are just making this accusation for devilment here.

[Eamonnca1]

Whether we like it or not the GAA has at it's heart the catholic parish system and in many of those clubs their religion goes hand in hand with the club. It is what made the association strong, it united all strands of society in a way Protestants in Ireland could only look at with envy. I don't believe we should suddenly ditch this part of our heritage. That is not to say that we should force religion down anyone's throat. It is a part of Irishness that is being left behind, a process obviously accelerated by the scanals in the Irish church. However the way forward for the GAA is to create a situation where clubs who no longer have that affinity with the parish or who have members from other religions and none can have an ecumenical service or none as they see fit. I've read a lot of the posts on here and the common thread on this issue seems to be a blind hatred on the part of some of the catholic church, either because of the scandals or because they no longer see religion as being important to them. Which is fine and in a democracy this is their right. But those who still hold religion dear and who see beyond the Bishops to the good honest priests who did their best for the parish it's people and their club also have a right to see this refected in some way and it does not have to be shoved down the throats of the dissenters.

Gawd!  Where do I start?

The catholic church initially opposed the GAA because they thought it threatened mass attendances. Croke was the exception to that rule and he had a hand in changing the church's mind, which is why he's so revered.

The idea that you can't be a proper Irishman unless you're a practicing catholic is outdated and offensive.  There's over a million protestants in Ireland, I'm quite sure that they don't see catholicism as part of their Irish identity.

I say again that if you narrow an organization's appeal to an increasingly narrow segment of society, you shouldn't be surprised if the organization doesn't grow to its full potential.  If you disconnect the organization from narrow affiliations with churches and politics then it'll have much broader appeal and stronger for it.

Do I hate the catholic church? Of course.  But that's not the main reason I'm making this point.  I'm making this point because I want the GAA to be strong, not shackled to an outdated deference to an outdated overgrown cult.