Hector and Fat Nolan

[armaghniac]

The GAA is what it is, if the unionist's don't like it - they can f**k off, don't see the Orange Order making changes to accommodate nationalists.

That's no help Cold Tea. The GAA is in no way, shape or form a mirror image of the Orange Order and it is sad that one of our own is making this comparison.

[BennyCake]

The OO is an anti-catholic organisation in every way. And armaghniac is right, you cannot compare an organisation like that with the GAA.

[michaelg]

Comparisons with Ulster Rugby are better.  Although always representative of the 9 Ulster counties, as far as I am aware, Ravenhill used to fly the union flag and I think GSTQ used to be played before inter-pro matches (I might be wrong on this point).  Ravenhill is now largely a neutral venue, although some people still bring the Ulster banner / NI flag, call it what you will, which some Nationalists are uncomfortable with.  As a regular at Revenhill, you regularly see GAA jackets etc, so their outreach seems to be having a positive effect.

[qubdub]

Don't think it's anything to do with outreach. I think it has more to do with Nationalism in general being more confident re identity etc that Unionism. People go to Ulster Rugby because they like watching rugby and are interested in the sport. I've always said rugby is a poor comparison because there is a level of maturity to be expected with rugby fans and it will take more than a few flags in the crowd(totally benign) to put people off. As such Ulster Rugby don't really need to do 'outreach'.

[michaelg]

Don't think it's anything to do with outreach. I think it has more to do with Nationalism in general being more confident re identity etc that Unionism. People go to Ulster Rugby because they like watching rugby and are interested in the sport. I've always said rugby is a poor comparison because there is a level of maturity to be expected with rugby fans and it will take more than a few flags in the crowd(totally benign) to put people off. As such Ulster Rugby don't really need to do 'outreach'.

Have Nationalists always gone to Ravenhill to watch Ulster play rugby?

[T Fearon]

Remember going to Ravenhill back in 1978 to see the All Blacks.Rugger chaps all middle class,thus largely escaped the excesses of the troubles and sectarianism.

[Tony Baloney]

Don't think it's anything to do with outreach. I think it has more to do with Nationalism in general being more confident re identity etc that Unionism. People go to Ulster Rugby because they like watching rugby and are interested in the sport. I've always said rugby is a poor comparison because there is a level of maturity to be expected with rugby fans and it will take more than a few flags in the crowd(totally benign) to put people off. As such Ulster Rugby don't really need to do 'outreach'.

Have Nationalists always gone to Ravenhill to watch Ulster play rugby?

Wouldn't have thought there were many going pre mid-90s.

[armaghniac]

Wouldn't have thought there were many going pre mid-90s.

Of course before the Heiniken cup they was  two Ulster games a year, or thereabouts.
Rugby was less popular in nationalist areas then, but I doubt if there was the same disconnect between those playing the game and HQ as exists in soccer.

[Main Street]

Not every farmer in the south has small stony fields, if you go down to Meath or Kildare you would find plenty of big shot farmers with massive farms.

best farms in Ireland are in monaghan the land around glaslough is the best I ever saw anywhere

That lying hoor Paddy Kavanagh.

Inniskeen, the rocks of bawn have nothing on Inniskeen.
Glaslough =  Castle Leslie territory,

[Main Street]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

I would argue that feeling some identity to England or an affinity to the UK would be a big issue for many of the posters on this board.  Also, at your own admission, just because many other Irish people share my affinity to the UK, this does not detract from my feeling a sense of Britishness.  I have a British passport and, as stated above, feel a connection with many aspects of British culture generally.
With regards to your views on the 'fear factor', I would say that a general sense of apathy is the bigger factor.  Many unionists are simply uninterested in cultural and political life etc in the ROI.  Finally, it could also be argued that 'the separation' that you talk about,  has been deepened by a sense of exclusion of unionist involvement in certain aspects of Irish cultural life e.g. Previous bans on security forces personnel in the GAA and the Sinn Fein hijacking of the Irish language being another.

I appreciate that you keep replying on this board and long may you continue. Even though I and others may not agree and it may appear to be a 'cold house' but where appropriate it definitely adds to the discussion.

Without going around in circles of the usual points of difference.
My point is more that the English/British identity is no big deal, it's the add ons to that which have little to do with the English/British identity, that are the issues.
The general attitude to Irish culture may well be apathetic as you say  but it's apathetic to the culture on your doorstep, not just the culture  that exists in 'another country'.
The apathy is just on the surface of something deeper. If it was only apathy, it wouldn't be an issue, but underneath the apathy is a hostility which comes out of a fear. A big enough part of the whole Unionist ideology is based on fear, in the social, political and religious spheres. Just read the speeches of the old leaders. Fear that the protestant religion would be wiped out, fear of pogroms, fear of republicanism, and now you have republicans speaking Gaelic  in parliament when you use to be able to put them in jail and throw away the key for such audacity.

[michaelg]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

I would argue that feeling some identity to England or an affinity to the UK would be a big issue for many of the posters on this board.  Also, at your own admission, just because many other Irish people share my affinity to the UK, this does not detract from my feeling a sense of Britishness.  I have a British passport and, as stated above, feel a connection with many aspects of British culture generally.
With regards to your views on the 'fear factor', I would say that a general sense of apathy is the bigger factor.  Many unionists are simply uninterested in cultural and political life etc in the ROI.  Finally, it could also be argued that 'the separation' that you talk about,  has been deepened by a sense of exclusion of unionist involvement in certain aspects of Irish cultural life e.g. Previous bans on security forces personnel in the GAA and the Sinn Fein hijacking of the Irish language being another.

I appreciate that you keep replying on this board and long may you continue. Even though I and others may not agree and it may appear to be a 'cold house' but where appropriate it definitely adds to the discussion.

Without going around in circles of the usual points of difference.
My point is more that the English/British identity is no big deal, it's the add ons to that which have little to do with the English/British identity, that are the issues.
The general attitude to Irish culture may well be apathetic as you say  but it's apathetic to the culture on your doorstep, not just the culture  that exists in 'another country'.
The apathy is just on the surface of something deeper. If it was only apathy, it wouldn't be an issue, but underneath the apathy is a hostility which comes out of a fear. A big enough part of the whole Unionist ideology is based on fear, in the social, political and religious spheres. Just read the speeches of the old leaders. Fear that the protestant religion would be wiped out, fear of pogroms, fear of republicanism, and now you have republicans speaking Gaelic  in parliament when you use to be able to put them in jail and throw away the key for such audacity.

[michaelg]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

I would argue that feeling some identity to England or an affinity to the UK would be a big issue for many of the posters on this board.  Also, at your own admission, just because many other Irish people share my affinity to the UK, this does not detract from my feeling a sense of Britishness.  I have a British passport and, as stated above, feel a connection with many aspects of British culture generally.
With regards to your views on the 'fear factor', I would say that a general sense of apathy is the bigger factor.  Many unionists are simply uninterested in cultural and political life etc in the ROI.  Finally, it could also be argued that 'the separation' that you talk about,  has been deepened by a sense of exclusion of unionist involvement in certain aspects of Irish cultural life e.g. Previous bans on security forces personnel in the GAA and the Sinn Fein hijacking of the Irish language being another.

I appreciate that you keep replying on this board and long may you continue. Even though I and others may not agree and it may appear to be a 'cold house' but where appropriate it definitely adds to the discussion.

Without going around in circles of the usual points of difference.
My point is more that the English/British identity is no big deal, it's the add ons to that which have little to do with the English/British identity, that are the issues.
The general attitude to Irish culture may well be apathetic as you say  but it's apathetic to the culture on your doorstep, not just the culture  that exists in 'another country'.
The apathy is just on the surface of something deeper. If it was only apathy, it wouldn't be an issue, but underneath the apathy is a hostility which comes out of a fear. A big enough part of the whole Unionist ideology is based on fear, in the social, political and religious spheres. Just read the speeches of the old leaders. Fear that the protestant religion would be wiped out, fear of pogroms, fear of republicanism, and now you have republicans speaking Gaelic  in parliament when you use to be able to put them in jail and throw away the key for such audacity.

Strikes me that you are the one going round in circles.

[Cold tea]

The GAA is what it is, if the unionist's don't like it - they can f**k off, don't see the Orange Order making changes to accommodate nationalists.

That's no help Cold Tea. The GAA is in no way, shape or form a mirror image of the Orange Order and it is sad that one of our own is making this comparison.

I am saying why should the GAA take away elements of it's culture to embrace unionists, if unionists want to kick ball they accept it flags and anthem as well, if they don't then they should f**k off.

[LeoMc]

Wouldn't have thought there were many going pre mid-90s.

Of course before the Heiniken cup they was  two Ulster games a year, or thereabouts.
Rugby was less popular in nationalist areas then, but I doubt if there was the same disconnect between those playing the game and HQ as exists in soccer.

Though there were not many Ulster games you would still have the likes of the Towns cup final and other club games. I would have been there there the odd time back in the say.

[johnneycool]

I have no problem with unionists displaying and having an affinity to British culture in whatever form that it takes (other than wanting to march in areas where the demographic has changed to an extent, that their coat trailing isn't wanted anymore), its the suppression of Irish culture as practiced by a very sizeable proportion of the six counties by the establishment in all its forms that get on my goat, the media, BBC, UTV being a prime example.

As for Ulster Scots, being ridiculed in Unionist circles as well, none would have the balls to openly say it for fear of the mob turning on them.