Hector and Fat Nolan

[Rossfan]

how would you define Irish culture?

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well.

[armaghniac]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

[michaelg]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

[Main Street]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

[lawnseed]

how would you define Irish culture?

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well.

rossie you forgot sliveenism and treachery

[lawnseed]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

excellent post.

[Hardy]

Not every farmer in the south has small stony fields, if you go down to Meath or Kildare you would find plenty of big shot farmers with massive farms.

best farms in Ireland are in monaghan the land around glaslough is the best I ever saw anywhere

That lying hoor Paddy Kavanagh.

[michaelg]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

I would argue that feeling some identity to England or an affinity to the UK would be a big issue for many of the posters on this board.  Also, at your own admission, just because many other Irish people share my affinity to the UK, this does not detract from my feeling a sense of Britishness.  I have a British passport and, as stated above, feel a connection with many aspects of British culture generally.
With regards to your views on the 'fear factor', I would say that a general sense of apathy is the bigger factor.  Many unionists are simply uninterested in cultural and political life etc in the ROI.  Finally, it could also be argued that 'the separation' that you talk about,  has been deepened by a sense of exclusion of unionist involvement in certain aspects of Irish cultural life e.g. Previous bans on security forces personnel in the GAA and the Sinn Fein hijacking of the Irish language being another.

[lawnseed]

Not every farmer in the south has small stony fields, if you go down to Meath or Kildare you would find plenty of big shot farmers with massive farms.

best farms in Ireland are in monaghan the land around glaslough is the best I ever saw anywhere

That lying hoor Paddy Kavanagh.

yeah he pulled the short straw around certain parts of stoney grey south monaghan

[BennyCake]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

I would argue that feeling some identity to England or an affinity to the UK would be a big issue for many of the posters on this board.  Also, at your own admission, just because many other Irish people share my affinity to the UK, this does not detract from my feeling a sense of Britishness.  I have a British passport and, as stated above, feel a connection with many aspects of British culture generally.
With regards to your views on the 'fear factor', I would say that a general sense of apathy is the bigger factor.  Many unionists are simply uninterested in cultural and political life etc in the ROI.  Finally, it could also be argued that 'the separation' that you talk about,  has been deepened by a sense of exclusion of unionist involvement in certain aspects of Irish cultural life e.g. Previous bans on security forces personnel in the GAA and the Sinn Fein hijacking of the Irish language being another.

Consider the percentage in the unionist community involved in the security forces, would it be 2%, 5%? The other 90-odd percent were still able to participate in the GAA. But maybe the fact that the GAA promotes more than just sports (scor, Irish language etc), would the average unionist want to be involved in anything that promotes the Irish culture? I would imagine they wouldn't. And would say that no matter what the GAA do to pander to the unionists, very very few of them would ever want to be involved in the GAA anyway.

Regarding the SF/Irish language - so was that the reason for creating your own "language"?

[michaelg]

Gaelic games, An Ghaeilge, Traditional music/dancing/ singing, also "ballads", the type of English we speak, easy going nature, history, heritage sites like Newgrange, Rathcroghan, those passage graves across the border in Sligo , holy wells, Croagh Patrick, the book of Kells, all those other historic annals...... etc etc
Then there's drinkin' porther as well

These things are only symptoms. Feeling an affinity with Ireland is the main thing.

Which brings me back to my original point about British culture in NI not being solely about marching.  i.e. Many unionist people in the Six North Eastern counties feel an affinity to the UK.

The affinity towards the  UK  or England? There's not much difference  between an affinity towards being English and towards the  UK.  The English are programmed to think in terms that the UK is an extension of their national identity. The UK is an extension of English identity and  there's little difference between British and English national identity.
Feeling some identity to England is no big unique deal for irish people, we speak the same language, have a long shared history together, positive and negative. And before the EU was formed,  there was no passport, no visa restrictions,  there are  strong Irish communities in England and Scotland. Ireland has a strong connection to English culture and just how many relations live there? You have to do better than that,  than say you have a connection to the UK. as if it's something unique. We all, in Ireland have a strong direct or indirect connection to England Scotland and Wales whether it be cultural or/and family. Some aspects of Irish traditional music is just so similar in character to Scottish.
I suspect a good part of the Unionist British identity is a big fear thing, fear that you'll all be wiped out in a gaelic inspired holocaust. Thats how the programming has been  since 18C and partly of how Unionists have maintained the separation between them and the natives. A separation based on a fear.

I would argue that feeling some identity to England or an affinity to the UK would be a big issue for many of the posters on this board.  Also, at your own admission, just because many other Irish people share my affinity to the UK, this does not detract from my feeling a sense of Britishness.  I have a British passport and, as stated above, feel a connection with many aspects of British culture generally.
With regards to your views on the 'fear factor', I would say that a general sense of apathy is the bigger factor.  Many unionists are simply uninterested in cultural and political life etc in the ROI.  Finally, it could also be argued that 'the separation' that you talk about,  has been deepened by a sense of exclusion of unionist involvement in certain aspects of Irish cultural life e.g. Previous bans on security forces personnel in the GAA and the Sinn Fein hijacking of the Irish language being another.

Consider the percentage in the unionist community involved in the security forces, would it be 2%, 5%? The other 90-odd percent were still able to participate in the GAA. But maybe the fact that the GAA promotes more than just sports (scor, Irish language etc), would the average unionist want to be involved in anything that promotes the Irish culture? I would imagine they wouldn't. And would say that no matter what the GAA do to pander to the unionists, very very few of them would ever want to be involved in the GAA anyway.

Regarding the SF/Irish language - so was that the reason for creating your own "language"?

If I'm not mistaken, I think you have just agreed with my last post.  Firstly, with regards to my point about exclusion from Irish culture,  even though only a small % of unionists were directly involved in the security forces, the fact that the ban existed was hardly going to make unionists generally feel welcome to join the GAA.  As for your next point about the average unionist not wanting to be involved in anything that promotes the Irish culture, given the level of apathy to Irish culture etc felt by many unionists, you are probably right.
Finally, I would say that most people, unionist and nationalist alike, are in agreement that the Ulster-Scots 'language' is a load of bollocks.

[BennyCake]

If I'm not mistaken, I think you have just agreed with my last post.  Firstly, with regards to my point about exclusion from Irish culture,  even though only a small % of unionists were directly involved in the security forces, the fact that the ban existed was hardly going to make unionists generally feel welcome to join the GAA.  As for your next point about the average unionist not wanting to be involved in anything that promotes the Irish culture, given the level of apathy to Irish culture etc felt by many unionists, you are probably right.
Finally, I would say that most people, unionist and nationalist alike, are in agreement that the Ulster-Scots 'language' is a load of bollocks.

The small percentage is the point. It wasn't an obstacle for many other unionists to participate in the GAA, it was just an excuse not to. In the same way the flag/anthem is an excuse not to these days. Plus, you have to realise why the ban was in place, because that was the time we lived in back then.

Would you (or anyone else you know) like to be involved in the GAA, even if those issues unionists refer to, were removed?

At least you're honest about the Ulster Scots thing.

[michaelg]

If I'm not mistaken, I think you have just agreed with my last post.  Firstly, with regards to my point about exclusion from Irish culture,  even though only a small % of unionists were directly involved in the security forces, the fact that the ban existed was hardly going to make unionists generally feel welcome to join the GAA.  As for your next point about the average unionist not wanting to be involved in anything that promotes the Irish culture, given the level of apathy to Irish culture etc felt by many unionists, you are probably right.
Finally, I would say that most people, unionist and nationalist alike, are in agreement that the Ulster-Scots 'language' is a load of bollocks.

The small percentage is the point. It wasn't an obstacle for many other unionists to participate in the GAA, it was just an excuse not to. In the same way the flag/anthem is an excuse not to these days. Plus, you have to realise why the ban was in place, because that was the time we lived in back then.

Would you (or anyone else you know) like to be involved in the GAA, even if those issues unionists refer to, were removed?

At least you're honest about the Ulster Scots thing.

Surely you must be able to see that the ban was going to have an impact on more widespread unionist involvement generally?  As for the flag / anthem being used an excuse these days, whilst their removal would probably not lead to a huge increase in unionist participation, it would probably help.  Without taking such steps, the perception will remain that the GAA is not really an organisation seeking to attract unionists.
As for whether or not I would like to be involved in the GAA if the flag / anthem etc were removed, because I have never actively played GAA or followed it on TV etc, I have no real interest in gaelic football or hurling, so the answer would probably be no.  If things were to change in the future, however, I would say that other unionists who have been encouraged to get involved, might well do so.

[armaghniac]

The ban was 45 years ago, were you even born then Michaelg? Unionists, by definition, are opposed to things Irish, there is only so much the GAA can do.

[Cold tea]

If I'm not mistaken, I think you have just agreed with my last post.  Firstly, with regards to my point about exclusion from Irish culture,  even though only a small % of unionists were directly involved in the security forces, the fact that the ban existed was hardly going to make unionists generally feel welcome to join the GAA.  As for your next point about the average unionist not wanting to be involved in anything that promotes the Irish culture, given the level of apathy to Irish culture etc felt by many unionists, you are probably right.
Finally, I would say that most people, unionist and nationalist alike, are in agreement that the Ulster-Scots 'language' is a load of bollocks.

The small percentage is the point. It wasn't an obstacle for many other unionists to participate in the GAA, it was just an excuse not to. In the same way the flag/anthem is an excuse not to these days. Plus, you have to realise why the ban was in place, because that was the time we lived in back then.

Would you (or anyone else you know) like to be involved in the GAA, even if those issues unionists refer to, were removed?

At least you're honest about the Ulster Scots thing.

Surely you must be able to see that the ban was going to have an impact on more widespread unionist involvement generally?  As for the flag / anthem being used an excuse these days, whilst their removal would probably not lead to a huge increase in unionist participation, it would probably help.  Without taking such steps, the perception will remain that the GAA is not really an organisation seeking to attract unionists.
As for whether or not I would like to be involved in the GAA if the flag / anthem etc were removed, because I have never actively played GAA or followed it on TV etc, I have no real interest in gaelic football or hurling, so the answer would probably be no.  If things were to change in the future, however, I would say that other unionists who have been encouraged to get involved, might well do so.

The GAA is what it is, if the unionist's don't like it - they can f**k off, don't see the Orange Order making changes to accommodate nationalists.