HILL16 Should it be a Dubs only area ?

[BartSimpson]

There was a few scumbags on the hill that gave some kids from Mayo a awful time, but a few of us other Dubs were quick enouf to put a stop to them. You should judge the fans by the greater number and that was a great mutual respect for each other, and not the actions of a minority, that all counties have. Generally, the Dubs and Mayo fans got on great, and were respectful to each other on the final whistle.

As for if it should be Dub only? Agree with the sentiment that it creates a great buzz (as a Dub) match day, but the other 31 should also be allowed on (financial reasons mostly) so had no issue with it. Do think the atmosfere was diluted by it tho.

Benny cake, so much hatred. I guess you're about 5 foot 3? Smells like small man syndrome.

[screenexile]

I think the atmosphere at an All Ireland Final is never the same as a good Semi Final. Too many tickets going to too many neutrals jaysus Clubs across the world, schools, all clubs in Ireland, corporate all get a fair whack of tickets meaning that often genuine fans miss out.

Don't get me wrong I take advantage of it and have been to my fair share where Derry weren't involved (most if I'm honest) but it definitely takes away from the atmosphere that there are so many neutrals at an All Ireland Final.

[whitey]

By all accounts nothing too bad happened on the Hill last Sunday.  (At least if it did, I didn't hear about it)

Back in 1985, a group of us young bucks from Mayo were saved from a hammering by some "real" Dublin supporters. Great to see that decency prevailed again.

It's only fair that both sets of supporters get to access the Hill. (1) From a financial standpoint and (2) what are the chances that 4 mates who wanted to go together would get stand tickets together for the AIF-not going to happen.

Any Dublin "supporter" who caused/would cause trouble is not a true fan.  I'm sure the GAA would be more than happy to replace those €40 terrace tickets with €80 stand tickets and would use an incident as justification to do so

[Johnnybegood]

I think the atmosphere at an All Ireland Final is never the same as a good Semi Final. Too many tickets going to too many neutrals jaysus Clubs across the world, schools, all clubs in Ireland, corporate all get a fair whack of tickets meaning that often genuine fans miss out.

Don't get me wrong I take advantage of it and have been to my fair share where Derry weren't involved (most if I'm honest) but it definitely takes away from the atmosphere that there are so many neutrals at an All Ireland Final.

the vast majority of the crowd on Sunday  was from the 2 counties

[deiseach]

I think the atmosphere at an All Ireland Final is never the same as a good Semi Final. Too many tickets going to too many neutrals jaysus Clubs across the world, schools, all clubs in Ireland, corporate all get a fair whack of tickets meaning that often genuine fans miss out.

Don't get me wrong I take advantage of it and have been to my fair share where Derry weren't involved (most if I'm honest) but it definitely takes away from the atmosphere that there are so many neutrals at an All Ireland Final.

the vast majority of the crowd on Sunday  was from the 2 counties

Maybe, but the only place where there would been large groups of fans from the same county  in one place was on the Hill. I remember the 2008 hurling final (no one else in Waterford does, it's like Alesia) and there were seven of us going to the game from my family. We ended up in five different places! Kinda hard to get a head of steam behind cheering and chanting when that's the case. Getting hockeyed by 23 points doesn't help either but as I said, Alesia.

[ballinaman]

Yeah, it was definitely deliberate but doubt the reason was because there was a sizeable Mayo contingent on the Hill. IMO Dublin were trying to upset Mayo's preparation by taking the ground they would have been expecting to stand on for the anthem.

Mayo stood in the same place as they did V Donegal and Tyrone for Anthem.

[Johnnybegood]

When Dublin are involved I think the gaa should look at allocating another section of the ground to the opposition at the same price as the hill

If the hill becomes no longer a Dublin end then gone are the days in country fields where a young GOOCH or a young OLLIE MURPHY or EOIN MULLIGAN  imagine themselves scoring into the hill against the dubs on all Ireland final day
Andy Moran did it yesterday and fair play to him but with all the Mayo fans on the hill it was kind of silly
The hill full of dubs is important to gaa culture as it is the ultimate rural /town/city rivalry  which is prevelant throughout club games all over the country.

The atmosphere yesterday was very dull compared to other years finals when Dublin where involved
I think the crowd split in 2011 was ideal

Finally any team that claims Dublin have an advantage really hand on hearts don't fancy themselves against this current Dublin team which I expect to achieve greatness over the coming decade

Kerry / meath would never in their wildest dream give a tuppence ha penny bothering about the hill because every time they play Dublin they fancy themselves to win.

Mayo beat Dublin in 06 and 12 in front of a blue hill.
They lost on Sunday with the hill split

Had a packed hill been silenced ten minutes after the parade on Sunday would mayo have grown in confidence ?
Would a more confident Mayo have shot so many wides ?

The hill full of dubs in full flow is one of the most prodigious sights in Irish sport and I've no doubt my country cousins love nothing better than silencing it which is also one of the most prodigious sights in Irish sports and both are great moments

Dublin have been filling the hill since before 1958 when it was the worst part of the stadium and have done so since.

The hill belongs to ALL of the GAA especially when it's full of Dubs
It's a tradition I definitely feel  should be retained

PS While  walking out of the match on Sunday I heard a very elderly woman claim no team would ever beat Dublin in an all Ireland final until the Hill 16 is blue!

[Fuzzman]

I was on the Hill on Sunday wearing my Tyrone shirt with two Dubs. I expected to arrive in to find the place half empty for the the minor game but was shocked how full it was already. Was shocked at how many Mayo fans and had 3 standing next to me.

I was going to swap for tickets for the Hogan but I decided to watch my first neutral AI final on the Hill to sample the well renowned atmosphere of the Hill. I had been on the hill twice before and I was never really a fan as I always find it hard to see the game well, especially when the ball is up the other end. On Sunday the sun was right in our eyes the whole game and wearing sun glasses made it worse.
Anyway, from the very start you could detect lots of Dublin fans around us who were not overly impressed with amount of Mayoites standing around them. Two lads in their 40's I'd say walked in past us and immediately started abusing the "Mayo Boggers". Then of course they and plenty others started the Hill16 is Dublin ONLY.
Of course I've been to enough games to know that the majority of fans are dead on and most on the hill were well behaved but there was certainly an intimidating atmosphere from where I was standing. I think its well known there is a rough element of Dub fans who go to the Hill and really do believe they should have exclusive rights to it.
There are also loads of lads like my two mates who always go to the Hill for the atmosphere and craic. It is more like being at a soccer match with their chants, songs and banter. I suppose that's what attracted me to go see it for myself for a big final with the Dubs involved. Seeing the flares and listening to their songs it really is a very different mood to being in the Cusack or Hogan with young kids or elderly fans next to you where you try to tone down your own language.

All in all I was disappointed with the experience on Sunday. I expected the atmosphere to be much better & I suppose a big part of that was cos there were so many Mayo mixed in with the crazy Dubs. I think it is only fair though that other counties get a fair share of tickets for the Hill if they want them as they're so much cheaper.
I don't think I'll go back though as I found it very hard to see the match, which I also found in the 2003 semi Tyrone v Kerry.
With 2 of my young kids supporting Dublin this year as they're at school now, I was happy enough to see the Dubs win, but I felt very awkward talking to the Mayo lads next to me as I think they were shocked a Tyrone man wouldn't be up for Mayo. I was quite undecided during the whole game and was probably annoyed with Mayo for letting another one slip again yet happy for my mates & my kids. Their cousin MDMA will probably be calling at their school with SAM again this year now.

Ye can't have the craic with them after another defeat each year and even some Dubs felt sorry for them rather than enjoying their own win at full gusto.

Finally as a Tyrone fan, one of my best memories will always be Mugsy scoring several goals into the Hill end and especially the one where he did the Mugsy stare. You could almost detect a certain respect from the Hill that if he could well be one of their own type players.

[muppet]

I understand the economics argument and the neutrality issues.  But why after almost a 100 years of counties respecting this tradition within the GAA was it necessary to change it. Did the Mayo county board think they had something to gain from holding on to their greater allocation for the hill.

100 years? Do you seriously think the Hill was thronged with Dubs for the 1921 final?

The 1921 Final was played in 1923 along with the 1922 Final, if you follow. The 1923 Final was played in 1924 and the 1924 Final was played in 1925. The 1925 Final was played in 1926 along with the 1926 final. Back then Hill 16 was known as East 17.

[deiseach]

The 1921 Final was played in 1923 along with the 1922 Final, if you follow. The 1923 Final was played in 1924 and the 1924 Final was played in 1925. The 1925 Final was played in 1926 along with the 1926 final. Back then Hill 16 was known as East 17.

Whenever it was played, I'd say there were some load of backstreet boys up there on the terrace. It wouldn't be until Heffo's Army that they were viewed as the new kids on the block, although I'd take that opinion with a pinch of salt.

[BennyCake]

Benny cake, so much hatred. I guess you're about 5 foot 3? Smells like small man syndrome.

Even if I was 5' 3", what the hell has that got to do with anything? I've seen and heard enough over the years to know exactly what Dublin fans on the Hill are like (and those not on the Hill too). Some of their actions have been totally disgraceful.

And before you say that's just a minority, just listen to the booing that goes on around the ground when an opposition player takes a free kick or kickout. I was there in 2011, when the boos came from all around the stadium when a Donegal player was down injured. He later had to be replaced. They're an absolute disgrace.

[Johnnybegood]

Benny cake, so much hatred. I guess you're about 5 foot 3? Smells like small man syndrome.

Even if I was 5' 3", what the hell has that got to do with anything? I've seen and heard enough over the years to know exactly what Dublin fans on the Hill are like (and those not on the Hill too). Some of their actions have been totally disgraceful.

And before you say that's just a minority, just listen to the booing that goes on around the ground when an opposition player takes a free kick or kickout. I was there in 2011, when the boos came from all around the stadium when a Donegal player was down injured. He later had to be replaced. They're an absolute disgrace.

after reading your post I'm not sure! Do you agree or disagree that hill 16 should be Dublin only?

[SkillfulBill]

When Dublin are involved I think the gaa should look at allocating another section of the ground to the opposition at the same price as the hill

If the hill becomes no longer a Dublin end then gone are the days in country fields where a young GOOCH or a young OLLIE MURPHY or EOIN MULLIGAN  imagine themselves scoring into the hill against the dubs on all Ireland final day
Andy Moran did it yesterday and fair play to him but with all the Mayo fans on the hill it was kind of silly
The hill full of dubs is important to gaa culture as it is the ultimate rural /town/city rivalry  which is prevelant throughout club games all over the country.

The atmosphere yesterday was very dull compared to other years finals when Dublin where involved
I think the crowd split in 2011 was ideal

Finally any team that claims Dublin have an advantage really hand on hearts don't fancy themselves against this current Dublin team which I expect to achieve greatness over the coming decade

Kerry / meath would never in their wildest dream give a tuppence ha penny bothering about the hill because every time they play Dublin they fancy themselves to win.

Mayo beat Dublin in 06 and 12 in front of a blue hill.
They lost on Sunday with the hill split

Had a packed hill been silenced ten minutes after the parade on Sunday would mayo have grown in confidence ?
Would a more confident Mayo have shot so many wides ?

The hill full of dubs in full flow is one of the most prodigious sights in Irish sport and I've no doubt my country cousins love nothing better than silencing it which is also one of the most prodigious sights in Irish sports and both are great moments

Dublin have been filling the hill since before 1958 when it was the worst part of the stadium and have done so since.

The hill belongs to ALL of the GAA especially when it's full of Dubs
It's a tradition I definitely feel  should be retained

PS While  walking out of the match on Sunday I heard a very elderly woman claim no team would ever beat Dublin in an all Ireland final until the Hill 16 is blue!


+ 1

I am a Tyrone man and I think the greater pleasure in beating the Dubs comes from the silencing off the hill. I remember the Mulligan wonder goal coming straight after a huge rendition of the boys in blue which had just been boomed out from the hill followed by the sound of silence. For me it wouldn't be the same without a packed partisan crowd on hill 16. A tradition which should never be lost regardless of the fairness arguments.  The hill is as much a disadvantage as it is a disadvantage and it is a great tradition fo have.

[Lone Shark]

I'd say you'll struggle to find anyone from outside Dublin who thinks that the Hill should be Dublin-only. It was different when you had the Canal End for the opposition supporters.

[Dirk Diggler]

http://www.livegaelic.com/features/hill-16-dublin-quantifying-unfair-advantage/

"Hill 16 is Dublin only" – Quantifying the Unfair Advantage

A big thank you to Eugene Delaney for this guest article, in which he seeks to quantify the advantage conferred to Dublin by Hill 16 using the statistics of Rob Carroll of



Whilst 31 Counties may be shouting for Mayo this Sunday, Dublin holds a distinct advantage playing in Croke Park.

As we look forward to the Sunday's final, and the culmination of a fantastic season, the question of the Dubs' Croke Park advantage rumbles on. Player differences aside, does Dublin have a distinct advantage playing in what has become their de facto home ground for championship football?

Redevelopment of Croke Park

There was a time in Croke Park when two terraces were available, the Dubs took Hill 16 and their opponents took the Canal End terrace. This provided both teams with equally opportunity to distract the opponent's free-takers, avail of cheaper terrace tickets, and raise the volume within the Stadium with a collective voice.

With the redevelopment of Croke Park and the loss of the Canal End terrace, this balance was lost as the Dubs remained in control of the Hill. Also, given the need to maximise attendances and revenue, headquarters has become Dublin's home ground for Championship football. Over the last six years the Dubs haven't once moved outside the city in the Championship, playing all 32 matches in Croke Park. This is a logical response from the GAA in terms of revenue and attendances but does it confer other advantages on Dublin? The home advantage has been addressed numerous times so I thought it was time we looked at the other hard facts:

The Free Taking Advantage

In the last three seasons, the average free taking success rate across all teams in the football Championship is 65%. In Croke Park, Dublin have averaged a success rate of 66.66% of frees kicked into the Canal End whilst all their opponents have managed 65%. So far, so fair.

louise_croke_22jul

However, when Dublin kick into the tranquil Hill 16 their average rises to 75.4% and their opponents' drop to 59.32%. This provides a huge advantage to Dublin as it represents an increase of 10% in accuracy when kicking into the Hill whilst their opponents accuracy drops 5%. (Statistics from the @thevideoanalyst)

The Monetary Advantage – Ticket Cost

There are 13,200 available places in Hill 16. For numerous reasons (I'm sure we've all heard the stories), most supporters aren't comfortable watching the game from Hill 16 when surrounded by some Dublin supporters. Therefore, Hill 16 is usually largely exclusively Dublin supporters as GAA fans choose to self-segregate. The cost of a Hill 16 ticket on Sunday is €40 whilst a seated ticket is €80. This difference means that Dublin supporters will spend €528,000 less for the same amount of tickets as Mayo this Sunday.

The Crowd advantage – Hill 16

The impact of the 16th man is often referred by the players and officials. The roar of a crowd can be the motivating factor in a player catching that last ball or blocking down that scoring opportunity. Sports arenas are noted for their decibel level and Croke Park is no different. Studies have also found that the decibel level of a seated crowd at a match averages at 110 while a terraced crowd reaches 120. The size and grouping of the supporters is also a factor. This also plays as a big factor for the Dubs as the Hill is the only terraced area and it is also the biggest collection of one team's supporters.

So what can be done to address these issues?

Possible Solutions

A. Dedicate the Canal end to other teams (at Hill 16 prices)
When playing against Dublin the Canal end should be dedicated to the opponent's supporters at the same price as Hill 16 tickets. This gives both teams the same advantage in terms of free-taking, cheaper tickets and a collective voice.

B. Segregation in Hill 16 (50/50 split)
Divide the Hill in two and give both sets of supporters the opportunity to take advantage of cheaper tickets and a collection voice. This would add colour and atmosphere and negate the issue of the free-taking into the Hill 16 end.