2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[Lone Shark]

I'm not so sure the black card is going to have much impact in the last couple minutes of a 2 or 3 point game where the serial fouling occurs.
In fact it will probably slow the game down even more as the ref has to administer the sanction and the player possibly argues with the ref, traipses off and generally kills time. It becomes an even bigger momentum breaker as the defending team gets more time to re-organise.

How about giving the referee the option of adding a minute onto the clock for every such yellow/black offence and making the punishment a 20 metre free in front of goal? It would a more targeted and situation appropriate.

As I've said before the black card becomes a lower impact punishment as the game progresses, yet the impact of the black card offences increases. Losing a man right at the death is always not a massive price to pay, whereas conceding an easy scoring chances might well be.

Just on this - and not to derail the thread or anything, but yesterday's game raised two points. For a black card, the fouling player would be replaced, and a team is allowed six substitutions in total to compensate. However it hasn't been clarified what would happen in the event of a black card after those six subs have been used. Would an extra sub then be allowed? Can a player who was taken off be reintroduced? Because if so, that would have been a very handy option for O'Carroll or O'Gara.



On the match itself, I thought Dublin were marginally the better team and so I don't feel sorry for Mayo any more than I would naturally feel sorry for any team that lost out on All Ireland final Sunday after a long year, however I would be fascinated to hear what exactly Joe McQuillan said to Cillian O'Connor. Perhaps there was grey area in what he said and Mayo have misinterpreted what he said, but I can see why that would hurt badly if he told them that there would be thirty more seconds to be played after the kickout and then he blew up straight away. If that was the case, O'Connor did the right thing in kicking the ball over the bar, only to hear a whistle he didn't expect.

As an Offaly supporter, I've seen hundreds of refereeing decisions for and against us down the years, and while you might be upset on the day, you'll always come to the conclusion that referees are human and they make mistakes, just like everyone else. The only one I've never come to terms with has been that bit of malevolence referred to earlier in the thread in 2002, when Paddy Russell told Colm Quinn that there was more time to play (I was down at that end of the ground so I actually heard him say it), so he tapped the ball over the bar and then the whistle was blown while the ball was in the air for the kickout. That was deliberate, intentional and I've no idea why Russell wanted Kildare to win that game, but he clearly did and I'll never forgive or forget. I still remember how genuinely and violently angry I felt at that, and it actually surprised me that I still felt the same thing when I was covering a match in Nenagh a few years ago and Russell was there on the terrace - I had to take a deep breath and move away or else I would have gone over to him.

I really hope that this isn't what happened here.

It's not that there should have been extra time, or that a goal was likely - there would have been a 5% chance of a goal at best, either yesterday or eleven years ago. But players are entitled to know the lie of the land and to react accordingly. If O'Connor had blasted the ball at goals and it was cleared, then it would be a lot easier for the players and indeed the supporters to live with it over the next twelve months.


Well done Dublin too. They've really entertained us this year and a slightly disappointing final doesn't undo the fact that they were a joy to watch all through the summer.

[Stall the Bailer]

The rub with all of these proposals is that they could well be a charter for divers. Imagine me losing by two points with 5 minutes to go (or actually at any time in the game). Lad comes in to tackle me, I hook his arm and pull him down on top of me. Get up in high dudgeon, fire the ball off the ground, roar at the ref etc etc. Lad protests his innocence but gets his black card and I trot up to the 20 metre line to take my point.

It's not too hard to picture carnage there. So what I'd like to see is a counterweight. If the referee deems you have dived or engineered the free, you are the one who gets the black card. But then you are placing an awful burden on the already struggling refs.

I'm interested in the black card and seeing how it goes, but if I am mister cynical coach, I'm telling my lads to try and get the opposition's best player the black card in the first 20 minutes. Run at him lads, and go down roaring.

Thats worse cheating in my book.

Will this not be one of fouls where you could get a black card next year?
It is pulling down a man, it will be a brave/stupid forward to try it next year as you could end up in the dugout and no free won (cheated) for your team.

[rodney trotter]

Commiserations to Mayo.  But I think Mayo and Dublin are the teams to beat over the next 2-3 years.  there is an all-Ireland in this Mayo team.  Hard luck today, but Keep the faith.

I think Cork with a new manager coming in, with some fresh ideas can make them in a strong force over the next few years. Colm O Neill was missing this year , one of the top young forwards in the Country.

Would be great to see Mayo win it someday, but I think yesterday was their best chance. That defeat could set them back, but who ya never know.

[Jinxy]

Commiserations to Mayo.  But I think Mayo and Dublin are the teams to beat over the next 2-3 years.  there is an all-Ireland in this Mayo team.  Hard luck today, but Keep the faith.

I think Cork with a new manager coming in, with some fresh ideas can make them in a strong force over the next few years. Colm O Neill was missing this year , one of the top young forwards in the Country.

Would be great to see Mayo win it someday, but I think yesterday was their best chance. That defeat could set them back, but who ya never know.

He'll never be the player he could have been unfortunately.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not so sure the black card is going to have much impact in the last couple minutes of a 2 or 3 point game where the serial fouling occurs.
In fact it will probably slow the game down even more as the ref has to administer the sanction and the player possibly argues with the ref, traipses off and generally kills time. It becomes an even bigger momentum breaker as the defending team gets more time to re-organise.

How about giving the referee the option of adding a minute onto the clock for every such yellow/black offence and making the punishment a 20 metre free in front of goal? It would a more targeted and situation appropriate.

As I've said before the black card becomes a lower impact punishment as the game progresses, yet the impact of the black card offences increases. Losing a man right at the death is always not a massive price to pay, whereas conceding an easy scoring chances might well be.

Just on this - and not to derail the thread or anything, but yesterday's game raised two points. For a black card, the fouling player would be replaced, and a team is allowed six substitutions in total to compensate. However it hasn't been clarified what would happen in the event of a black card after those six subs have been used. Would an extra sub then be allowed? Can a player who was taken off be reintroduced? Because if so, that would have been a very handy option for O'Carroll or O'Gara.



On the match itself, I thought Dublin were marginally the better team and so I don't feel sorry for Mayo any more than I would naturally feel sorry for any team that lost out on All Ireland final Sunday after a long year, however I would be fascinated to hear what exactly Joe McQuillan said to Cillian O'Connor. Perhaps there was grey area in what he said and Mayo have misinterpreted what he said, but I can see why that would hurt badly if he told them that there would be thirty more seconds to be played after the kickout and then he blew up straight away. If that was the case, O'Connor did the right thing in kicking the ball over the bar, only to hear a whistle he didn't expect.

As an Offaly supporter, I've seen hundreds of refereeing decisions for and against us down the years, and while you might be upset on the day, you'll always come to the conclusion that referees are human and they make mistakes, just like everyone else. The only one I've never come to terms with has been that bit of malevolence referred to earlier in the thread in 2002, when Paddy Russell told Colm Quinn that there was more time to play (I was down at that end of the ground so I actually heard him say it), so he tapped the ball over the bar and then the whistle was blown while the ball was in the air for the kickout. That was deliberate, intentional and I've no idea why Russell wanted Kildare to win that game, but he clearly did and I'll never forgive or forget. I still remember how genuinely and violently angry I felt at that, and it actually surprised me that I still felt the same thing when I was covering a match in Nenagh a few years ago and Russell was there on the terrace - I had to take a deep breath and move away or else I would have gone over to him.

I really hope that this isn't what happened here.

It's not that there should have been extra time, or that a goal was likely - there would have been a 5% chance of a goal at best, either yesterday or eleven years ago. But players are entitled to know the lie of the land and to react accordingly. If O'Connor had blasted the ball at goals and it was cleared, then it would be a lot easier for the players and indeed the supporters to live with it over the next twelve months.


Well done Dublin too. They've really entertained us this year and a slightly disappointing final doesn't undo the fact that they were a joy to watch all through the summer.

I'm pretty sure the black cardee can be replaced UP TO 3 times, all of whom come out of your 6 subs allowance. If you reach your 6 subs, or your 3 black cards, and incur another one, then you're down to 14 and so on.

Yesterday, assuming that the Dubs had used all their subs, Brogan, O'Gara and McMenamon would all have gone and you'd have another 12 apostles victory.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Dublin footballers visited the Crumlin Hospital for sick children today.  Very nice gesture.
http://balls.ie/gaa/pictures-melt-heart/14/

[The Biff]

I'm not so sure the black card is going to have much impact in the last couple minutes of a 2 or 3 point game where the serial fouling occurs.
In fact it will probably slow the game down even more as the ref has to administer the sanction and the player possibly argues with the ref, traipses off and generally kills time. It becomes an even bigger momentum breaker as the defending team gets more time to re-organise.

How about giving the referee the option of adding a minute onto the clock for every such yellow/black offence and making the punishment a 20 metre free in front of goal? It would a more targeted and situation appropriate.

As I've said before the black card becomes a lower impact punishment as the game progresses, yet the impact of the black card offences increases. Losing a man right at the death is always not a massive price to pay, whereas conceding an easy scoring chances might well be.

Just on this - and not to derail the thread or anything, but yesterday's game raised two points. For a black card, the fouling player would be replaced, and a team is allowed six substitutions in total to compensate. However it hasn't been clarified what would happen in the event of a black card after those six subs have been used. Would an extra sub then be allowed? Can a player who was taken off be reintroduced? Because if so, that would have been a very handy option for O'Carroll or O'Gara.



On the match itself, I thought Dublin were marginally the better team and so I don't feel sorry for Mayo any more than I would naturally feel sorry for any team that lost out on All Ireland final Sunday after a long year, however I would be fascinated to hear what exactly Joe McQuillan said to Cillian O'Connor. Perhaps there was grey area in what he said and Mayo have misinterpreted what he said, but I can see why that would hurt badly if he told them that there would be thirty more seconds to be played after the kickout and then he blew up straight away. If that was the case, O'Connor did the right thing in kicking the ball over the bar, only to hear a whistle he didn't expect.

As an Offaly supporter, I've seen hundreds of refereeing decisions for and against us down the years, and while you might be upset on the day, you'll always come to the conclusion that referees are human and they make mistakes, just like everyone else. The only one I've never come to terms with has been that bit of malevolence referred to earlier in the thread in 2002, when Paddy Russell told Colm Quinn that there was more time to play (I was down at that end of the ground so I actually heard him say it), so he tapped the ball over the bar and then the whistle was blown while the ball was in the air for the kickout. That was deliberate, intentional and I've no idea why Russell wanted Kildare to win that game, but he clearly did and I'll never forgive or forget. I still remember how genuinely and violently angry I felt at that, and it actually surprised me that I still felt the same thing when I was covering a match in Nenagh a few years ago and Russell was there on the terrace - I had to take a deep breath and move away or else I would have gone over to him.

I really hope that this isn't what happened here.

It's not that there should have been extra time, or that a goal was likely - there would have been a 5% chance of a goal at best, either yesterday or eleven years ago. But players are entitled to know the lie of the land and to react accordingly. If O'Connor had blasted the ball at goals and it was cleared, then it would be a lot easier for the players and indeed the supporters to live with it over the next twelve months.


Well done Dublin too. They've really entertained us this year and a slightly disappointing final doesn't undo the fact that they were a joy to watch all through the summer.

I'm pretty sure the black cardee can be replaced UP TO 3 times, all of whom come out of your 6 subs allowance. If you reach your 6 subs, or your 3 black cards, and incur another one, then you're down to 14 and so on.

Yesterday, assuming that the Dubs had used all their subs, Brogan, O'Gara and McMenamon would all have gone and you'd have another 12 apostles victory.

Yes, this is certainly the plan for the new rule. If you have used all your 6 subs and then incur a black-card, the offender cannot be replaced. If you have not used your 6 subs whenyour team incurs it's 4th black-card, that 4th offender cannot be replaced.

I'm really looking forward to the first time that a team goes down to 14 men due to black-cards, to see what the reaction will be.  I really hope it happens to Tyrone, because I reckon the best reaction would come from the likes of Mickey Harte.   

[Throw ball]

Quick question. When the black card comes in can you get sent off in every match or is there an accumulation were after so many in a row you miss the next match?

[INDIANA]

Quick question. When the black card comes in can you get sent off in every match or is there an accumulation were after so many in a row you miss the next match?

Fairly sure you can foul away in peace.

Its not going to work as a proposal fellas.

As I've said before the solution is to bring any delibarate cynical foul in any area of the pitch up to being a 20m free in.

[angstrom]

I can't believe Gavin came out with this tirade against the ref, did he have a few drinks in him and let his guard slip? There were a few marginal calls that went against Dublin in the first half but by and large Mayos tackiling was cleaner and executed better than Dublin's and I actually thought McQuillan had a fine game in the main. Mayo could easily argue over the incorrect 45m call in the first half and the stoppage time at the end of the game.

As for McAuley being POTY, I would say the chances are slim. He is a very limited footballer in terms of ability but is an absolute workhorse and was very important to Dublin all year. However in the absence of any standout footballers it could well be that someone like the Gooch could shade it this year. Personally I think it should go to Keith Higgins who was immense yesterday in a beaten team.

Does that mean  Donegal were the greatest ever TEAM to win an all-ireland?

Mayo cynically fouled in the semi final last year so it's hypocritical for any poster to cry wolf now. Mc Auley is an incredible player. Anyone who thinks he's average doesn't know the game. He's the heartbeat of the Dublin team.
Donegal had the monopoly on average players winning an all ireland last year.

[/color]

[Hound]

The ref told COC there was 30 seconds left. 30 seconds later the ref blew the full time whistle.

The clock doesn't stop when the ball is not in play. "30 seconds left" means "you need a goal chap".

Met a Mayo friend after the match and could barely talk he was that upset/disappointed. Could only feel sympathy, but I think on the day we deserved the victory. We'd no choice but to try and run down the clock in the last 10 mins when we were down to 13 men for all intents and purposes. Would have been nicer to win with a bit more style, but that was the way the chips fell.

[Tubberman]

The ref told COC there was 30 seconds left. 30 seconds later the ref blew the full time whistle.

The clock doesn't stop when the ball is not in play. "30 seconds left" means "you need a goal chap".

Met a Mayo friend after the match and could barely talk he was that upset/disappointed. Could only feel sympathy, but I think on the day we deserved the victory. We'd no choice but to try and run down the clock in the last 10 mins when we were down to 13 men for all intents and purposes. Would have been nicer to win with a bit more style, but that was the way the chips fell.

Yeah, a slightly tarnished win. I'm glad now, we'll wait for another time and do it in real style

[ross matt]

Congrats to Dublin. You fully deserved your win.

Commiserations to Mayo. Bad day at the office. Too many key guys underperformed..... Aidan O'Se, Dillon, Cafferky, McLaughlin, Cillian O'Connor...... Vaughan also had his least influential match all year.

I thought James Horan panicked by taking off Freeman because he was so anxious to get Conroy ( who also played poorly) on to the field. Freeman gave them an out for a high ball and looked dangerous. McLaughlin gave away so much ball. Despite Andy being tired would he not have been the best man to snatch a goal if left on at the end? Did Sheamy O'Se deserve to be taken off?

Even when in front Mayo shot hurriedly and badly. They looked jittery on the ball and were the least economical they were on the ball all year.

Overall it was an intense contest but a poor match quality wise.

[Lone Shark]

The ref told COC there was 30 seconds left. 30 seconds later the ref blew the full time whistle.

The clock doesn't stop when the ball is not in play. "30 seconds left" means "you need a goal chap".

Met a Mayo friend after the match and could barely talk he was that upset/disappointed. Could only feel sympathy, but I think on the day we deserved the victory. We'd no choice but to try and run down the clock in the last 10 mins when we were down to 13 men for all intents and purposes. Would have been nicer to win with a bit more style, but that was the way the chips fell.

This is why I mentioned grey area. If COC asked how long was left and the ref said thirty seconds, he should have just thrown in "30 secs after the kickout is taken, yeah?" Then be seen to scream around to everyone that there's thirty seconds from when the ball lands. That would leave the ref with no option. If he didn't do that, then that just wasn't sharp - though someone with more experience should have known to do the same.

That was part of the reason why I was so livid in 2002. Colm Quinn asked Paddy Russell "Is there time for us to get another score if I kick this one over?" I remember Quinn shaped up to take the kick and Ciarán McManus dashed in to ask Russell as well, and Russell confirmed that he was going to play on after the kickout - then blew up as the ball was in the air.

[Wildweasel74]

Some great photos of the Dublin team at the hospital for sick children on FB, Really admire that