Gaelic football and the media

[Syferus]

I think the Sean Cavanagh style last man tackling shouldn't be included in the black card offences because then it won't stop, managers will just designate a few key players that they won't allow commit the tackle unless it's late on and they're closing out a game. In many ways a yellow is more of a punishment than a substitution in that situation. It certainly won't stop the boo boys being able to use cynical play as a stick to beat the GAA with.

It needs to be red with absolutely no room for referee interpretation.

[Jinxy]

I think the Sean Cavanagh style last man tackling shouldn't be included in the black card offences because then it won''t stop, managers will just designate a few keep players that they won't allow commit the tackle unless it's late on and they're closing out a game. In many ways a yellow is more of a punishment than a substitution in that situation. It certainly won't stop the boo boys being able to use cynical play as a stick to beat the GAA with.

It needs to be red with absolutely no room for referee interpretation.

I've heard this theory doing the rounds and I have to say I don't think it will be feasible for teams to be that machiavellian.
You still have to factor in the normal substitutions that will need to be made so this idea that you can just store up your cards doesn't seem feasible.
You are going to end up losing players.
That said, I always thought the sin bin worked well when it was tried in the league but of course the managers put an end to that.

[Hardy]

The black card will do nothing at all reduce score-preventing fouls at the end of games. In what way is a ten-minute sin-bin, or whatever it is, a deterrent from pulling down a forward about to score a goal in the last minute when you're a point up?

What the black card will do is escalate the amount of cheating and feigning because now there's an even bigger reward for it. We've even invented a new category of foul to encourage it.

[AZOffaly]

We'll see Hardy, and as I said at the time, I'd have liked to see diving or feigning injury added to the list of offences which merit a black card in the first place.

However, I do think the black card will limit the fouls that get on my nerves. The harmless looking, slow the ball down, break up the play fouls that teams have perfected over the last 10 years. The half forward dragging down the half back on a breakaway, and not even pausing as he runs back into his 'designated' defensive position. Those fouls are what I hate. I agree a black card, yellow card, red card or polka dot card will not stop a lad trying to prevent a goal by any means possible in a big game. All you can there is make sure the punishment is as fair as possible to the attacking team, but it will still happen in any case.

[Jinxy]

The black card will do nothing at all reduce score-preventing fouls at the end of games. In what way is a ten-minute sin-bin, or whatever it is, a deterrent from pulling down a forward about to score a goal in the last minute when you're a point up?

What the black card will do is escalate the amount of cheating and feigning because now there's an even bigger reward for it. We've even invented a new category of foul to encourage it.

There's no deterrent in any sport for that Hardy.
In rugby, teams will happily concede penalties and slow the ball down knowing the opposition need a last minute try.
In soccer, an outfield player can block a goal bound shot with his hand a la Suarez, knowing full well the penalty could be saved.
There's only so much you can do, but you have to do something.

[Hardy]

An effective deterrent could be introduced, Jinxy. Or at least a somewhat effective one and one that won't be easily turned into an incentive for diving. Make any dragging down foul, anywhere on the field, anytime in the game, a 13-metre free. Maybe even make any such foul inside 20 metres a penalty. It's not easy to feign being dragged down in a rugby tackle.

AZ, perhaps the black card will deter the fouls you describe and that would be good. But it's being touted all over the media today as the solution for the end-of-game rugby tackle. It's not. And I fear that the new offence of blocking a run that has been introduced along with the black card will see a plague of feigning as lads go out of their way to be blocked exactly as you see now in rugby from lads (sorry, guys) chasing their own kick.

[Dinny Breen]

An effective deterrent could be introduced, Jinxy. Or at least a somewhat effective one and one that won't be easily turned into an incentive for diving. Make any dragging down foul, anywhere on the field, anytime in the game, a 13-metre free. Maybe even make any such foul inside 20 metres a penalty. It's not easy to feign being dragged down in a rugby tackle.

AZ, perhaps the black card will deter the fouls you describe and that would be good. But it's being touted all over the media today as the solution for the end-of-game rugby tackle. It's not. And I fear that the new offence of blocking a run that has been introduced along with the black card will see a plague of feigning as lads go out of their way to be blocked exactly as you see now in rugby from lads (sorry, guys) chasing their own kick.

As regard fluency and attacking play Basketball is a good comparison and how they deal with cynical fouls should be looked at. 5 personal fouls and you are out of the game. Commit a certain number of team fouls (4 per quarter) and a free throw is given for every foul committed. They even have allowances for the last 2 minutes if no team fouls have been committed.

[Declan]

I was just about to mention the basketball way of dealing with it myself Dinny. I'm skeptical about the black card myself 

[Dinny Breen]

I was just about to mention the basketball way of dealing with it myself Dinny. I'm skeptical about the black card myself

Yep a black card in the last few minutes will seen as worthwhile if it denies a goal chance.

[Lar Naparka]

I have never been more convinced of the utter irrelevance of the GAA media than I am right now.
I'd only ever get a paper at the weekend and it's largely just to read the sports section.
I was reading Vincent Hogans article in the Indo this morning when I came across the following in the context of the Donegal v Mayo spat.
'All wonderful stuff if you're looking to put bums on seats in Croke Park tomorrow. Because right now, Gaelic football is a difficult sell. Maybe Dublin apart, the focus of its big guns seems to be on systematic fouling and the subjugation of attacking flair. The game has become graceless and, largely, ugly.'
On Championship Matters during the week they had a VT piece by some tabloid Gaa reporter along the lines of 'we need a two-tier championship, attendances will fall, gaelic football is doomed'.
I have reached a couple of conclusions, which I'd be interested to get other peoples perspective on.

a) The empirical evidence would seem to completely contradict the view that supporters are falling out of love with the game. Viewing figures are up and attendances are up.
b) There are a number of 'hurling men' in the media who never miss an opportunity to put the boot into football.
c) There are a number of journalists who are increasingly frustrated at their lack of access to the players. This seems to be more of an issue in football than hurling. Is there some lingering resentment as a result of this?
d) Football is quite simply an easy target. Its defenders lack the zeal of the hurling die-hards who feel genuinely threatened by the popularity of football, moreso than any other sport including soccer and rugby.

Every football fan I know is hugely excited about the extravaganza of football we have this weekend and the potential semi-final and final match-ups to come.
At work this week I've spent about 50% of my 'productive' time locked in deep conversation with Cork, Dublin, Donegal, Mayo and Cavan folk, both male and female; discussing tactics, line-ups, managerial rows etc.
And yet there is no sense of celebration or occasion in the media reportage.
Contrast this with the hurling coverage where every game is described with breathless adoration, regardless of how mediocre the contest has actually been.

There are obvious exceptions but I do feel there are too many journalists with their own agendas, who are trying to fit the facts to suit them.
Or, the alternative question is, 'Is Gaelic Football a difficult sell?'

I'm afraid it is Jinxy. I'm afraid it is.
What's more, the battle for the minds and hearts, and more importantly the wallets, is getting tougher all the time. Competition is coming from all quarters and chief amongst its rivals are the comparable field games; soccer and rugby.
Gaelic games lack an international dimension which puts it at a disadvantage compared to its main rivals.  I fully accept that when you were a kid, you didn't need newspapers or any other media form to help you identify with your heroes.
But that was in the days before multichannel TV came along and all of the other forms of high tec advertising.
I think we've got to the stage where a line between what people, especially kids, can't tell the difference between what is going on around them and what they see on TV.
In the case of adults, you could add newspapers and fanzines to the mix.
Revenue from franchising is consequent on advertising and right now I'd bet the sale of Meath jerseys in Navan or Kells or wherever lags well behind those of Man UI, Arsenal and the likes. I'm saying this because I'd imaine meath jerseys, hats, stickers are espscially popular.
How many kids would you realistically expect to see wearing Meath colours in the off-season?
Same goes for every county in the land. The GAA needs publicity like Mayo needs Sam in order to survive and prosper. Okay, attendances at major games may well be up, due in part to advertising, but how many people contribute to the GAA in any shape or form when the cold winds blow or the rain keeps pissing down in Castlebar, Castleblayney or Castelbaldwin for that matter?
(Don't forget Pollawaddy, Pullathomas or Pullronaghan either.)
Most heads here, including me, are long time GAA followers and tend to look at thing with tunnel vision so we don't necessarily see what the general public does.
Put it another way, anyone here can give off steam about O'Rourke, Brolly or Auntie Pat or any other well-paid waffler but as long as the viewing figures are favourable, their jobs won't be in danger.
They're there to entertain and not to preach to the converted. From a GAA perspective, bad publicity is better than no publicity and I'd prefer to have Vincent Hogan writing pure bullsugar about my beloved Mayo than having the same Vincent Hogan writing SFA about them.
.....
I'm afraid the foregoing is a bit scattered due to circumstances outside my immediate control:
The dander is up, the jersey is on and I'm about to sally forth and head for my local to give them pesky Dubs something to think about.

Aaaah, the GAA; there nowt to beat it!

[Jinxy]

Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! 

[Lar Naparka]

Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! 

I sure do and the going is not getting easier either.
For one thing, we are talking about an amateur sport played at a professional level. That's brings unique problems in it train and for another, the principal rivals for the public's attention, soccer and rugby, have far greater resources and those sports are marketed in a professional manner.
It's fair to sat Man Utd, rakes in more money in a week than the GAA does in a year.
Crucially, the vast bulk of its income is coming through indirect channels (product endorsements, TV contracts and the sales of franchised paraphernalia, e.g., scarves, banners, flags etc.
I'm told there are phenomenal sales of Ipad, PSP etc games as well.
Only a tiny fraction of its income comes from spectators paying at the turnstiles. In the case of the GAA, the opposite is the case.  It's a Goliath versus David scenario all over again but this time there are countless Goliaths and only one poor little David.
In a nutshell, the GAA needs all the publicity it can get, from any quarter, to keep its place on the public stage.
It sells sweet FA hats, jerseys etc which is a pity. All the stuff you see on match days is sold be private individuals and not a cent winds up in GAA hands.
I don't know if anything can be done about this but if you or I try to flog any Man U jerseys or player dolls or whatever, we'd get a nasty letter from some solicitor before a week was out.
It's men v boys in the paraphernalia sales league.
I don't like Vincent Hogan either; I'd put him in somewhere between a jackass and a laitcheko if I were doing personal critique of sports writers but his opinions get more public attention than mine. BTW, not all of his readers come from a GAA background so he can't be expected to see things the way we do.
In a somewhat similar way, Joe Brolly won't lose his job with RTE as long as he generates controversy and I don't think the blazers at HQ would want to see him dumped either.
My great pity is that the GAA must keep pace with its professional competitors if it is to stay in the race. A way must be found to grant the media access to the players. Other sports don't have the problem of amateur players being subjected to professional demands.
The GAA must keep abreast of the times we are in: damned if you do but double damned if you don't.

[Jinxy]

Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! 

I sure do and the going is not getting easier either.
For one thing, we are talking about an amateur sport played at a professional level. That's brings unique problems in it train and for another, the principal rivals for the public's attention, soccer and rugby, have far greater resources and those sports are marketed in a professional manner.
It's fair to sat Man Utd, rakes in more money in a week than the GAA does in a year.
Crucially, the vast bulk of its income is coming through indirect channels (product endorsements, TV contracts and the sales of franchised paraphernalia, e.g., scarves, banners, flags etc.
I'm told there are phenomenal sales of Ipad, PSP etc games as well.
Only a tiny fraction of its income comes from spectators paying at the turnstiles. In the case of the GAA, the opposite is the case.  It's a Goliath versus David scenario all over again but this time there are countless Goliaths and only one poor little David.
In a nutshell, the GAA needs all the publicity it can get, from any quarter, to keep its place on the public stage.
It sells sweet FA hats, jerseys etc which is a pity. All the stuff you see on match days is sold be private individuals and not a cent winds up in GAA hands.
I don't know if anything can be done about this but if you or I try to flog any Man U jerseys or player dolls or whatever, we'd get a nasty letter from some solicitor before a week was out.
It's men v boys in the paraphernalia sales league.
I don't like Vincent Hogan either; I'd put him in somewhere between a jackass and a laitcheko if I were doing personal critique of sports writers but his opinions get more public attention than mine. BTW, not all of his readers come from a GAA background so he can't be expected to see things the way we do.
In a somewhat similar way, Joe Brolly won't lose his job with RTE as long as he generates controversy and I don't think the blazers at HQ would want to see him dumped either.
My great pity is that the GAA must keep pace with its professional competitors if it is to stay in the race. A way must be found to grant the media access to the players. Other sports don't have the problem of amateur players being subjected to professional demands.
The GAA must keep abreast of the times we are in: damned if you do but double damned if you don't.

I dunno Lar.
My question was 'Is it a hard sell?' to which you responded 'Yes'.
But your key point seems to be we are not selling it well enough, which is a different issue I think.

[Captain Scarlet]

Lads just to get back on the original topic I was going to start a thread on the sheer obsession with negativity in the TV coverage of football.
First thing TV3 want to talk about yesterday when Kerry are waltzing past Cavan is a peno shout that was hardly a major talking point. Then when the lads do want to talk they are to ads.
RTE are as bad in terms of the football and always want to go straight shitin' on about a dodgy decision or some other 'controversy'. It's never fair play or anything, let's have a look at the point X or Y scored from the sideline.
Just far too critical and we can't blame the hurling boys for that. Always this things of what is wrong in the game, the format needs changing, the rules do, etc, etc.
The hurling analysts love the game and you don't heat them spouting on all the time about what is wrong. 

[Jinxy]

It's quite simple really.
Controversy is ratings gold.
The Brolly tirade is a perfect example.
The whole country was talking about it, and it will be remembered long after people have forgotten who Tyrone were even playing.
It makes for great TV unfortunately.