Jim is worried....

[BluestackBoy]

Jeez Bluestack...dunno whether to put Bollix or boy after your initial thing. Your own post count has fairly risen last night. It was only around 160 or so, now it's over 200. You must be exhausted.

It was one of those nights Farr, I got a head of steam built up & couldn't let it go. There were fellas offering me all sorts of advice as to where I could & should put my head, but those sorts of gymnastics are way beyond me now!!
I enjoyed the whole thing & it's great to be able to have a good joust & leave it with no damage done.

It's strange the way McGuinness evokes such strong feelings in people, both for & against. I know the man well so I suppose there is always a tendency to defend someone you know against criticism from afar. For the record I don't think we'll win on Sunday. I think this is Mayo's year & I for one will cheer them all the way if they beat us.

[BluestackBoy]

Jimmy v James, I can see only winner in the keeping their cool stakes.

What sort of character is Horan anyway? Dont know much about him!

He is a very focused composed fella which definitely has someting to do with his Kiwi up bringing. Lads who I talked said that in 96 and 97 he was the calmest man in the dressingroom going out for the All Ireland and all he wanted was to get the first ball so he could knock it  over the bar. It seemed like it could be a club league game or the All Ireland but Horan maintained the same calm and focus.

When he played Rugby for Ballina James and his brother John were very calm on the ball but very aggressive in a deliberate way (not losing the head) and like most Kiwi's didn't bother with a sidestep if the could run over you. Being flash didn't come into it it was all about winning the game first or as he now says the performance is first.

Jimmy v James, I can see only winner in the keeping their cool stakes.

This wouldn't be the same James who blamed the medial and worse of all named & shamed the Mayo players he thought were at fault for last year's final defeat while at the same time maintaining that his tactics & matchups were fine?  Classy fella.

   Ah come on Bluestack Boy I know there are a lot of posters throwing a good few cheap digs about JMcG on this thread and the other one but there is no need to start doing the same. Just to set the balance Horan complained about Joe Brolly's ridiculous attempt to influence the Ref with his article and preview on RTE radio about how we were the devil's of Football with our cynical tactics that we had just invented.I think most Mayo football fans know this had nothing to do with Donegal or McGuiness and more to do with Brolly looking for his headline and looking out for his best mate from his Trinity college days Pat Gilroy. It didn't influence the ref apart from maybe a couple of early yellow cards but Horan felt he had to challenge Brolly's idiotic behaviour and that's fair enough to me.
 
Saying he hung Kevin Keane out to dry is sorry is just petty or stupid or both. I can understand the urge to peddle this view with some of "genius" assessments of JMcG interview after the Laois game but still it doesn't make it any better (two wrongs and all that craic). All Horan said was he felt that he got the match ups right as in he trusted Kevin Keane to follow Murphy out the field but obviously it didn't come off. He didn't blame Keane at all but didn't absolve the players from the responsibility that when they cross over the white line the onus is on them to carry out what the have prepared for in training.

So, let me get this straight. McGuinness is fair game for any abuse under the sun & not a peep out of you but Horan in exempt from criticism of any description?

For the record he never mentioned Keane, the players he had a go at were the guys who didn't track Lacey when he came out with the ball. To say he got the match ups right is laughable. Surely he doesn't believe that.

[brokencrossbar1]

Ye Cross boys can fair write anyways. Great article.

Easy when you know what you're talking about

In Fairness it doesn't matter what size Gallogly is - McHugh is not exactly a giant either. It was a poor tackle.

Rodney the two of them went for the ball and Gollogly hit him harder, slightly frontal but not maliciously.  It would happened in any game any day and the outcome would not have been as bad.  I don't think it was a dirty tackle. 

[Crete Boom]

Jimmy v James, I can see only winner in the keeping their cool stakes.

What sort of character is Horan anyway? Dont know much about him!

He is a very focused composed fella which definitely has someting to do with his Kiwi up bringing. Lads who I talked said that in 96 and 97 he was the calmest man in the dressingroom going out for the All Ireland and all he wanted was to get the first ball so he could knock it  over the bar. It seemed like it could be a club league game or the All Ireland but Horan maintained the same calm and focus.

When he played Rugby for Ballina James and his brother John were very calm on the ball but very aggressive in a deliberate way (not losing the head) and like most Kiwi's didn't bother with a sidestep if the could run over you. Being flash didn't come into it it was all about winning the game first or as he now says the performance is first.

Jimmy v James, I can see only winner in the keeping their cool stakes.

This wouldn't be the same James who blamed the medial and worse of all named & shamed the Mayo players he thought were at fault for last year's final defeat while at the same time maintaining that his tactics & matchups were fine?  Classy fella.

   Ah come on Bluestack Boy I know there are a lot of posters throwing a good few cheap digs about JMcG on this thread and the other one but there is no need to start doing the same. Just to set the balance Horan complained about Joe Brolly's ridiculous attempt to influence the Ref with his article and preview on RTE radio about how we were the devil's of Football with our cynical tactics that we had just invented.I think most Mayo football fans know this had nothing to do with Donegal or McGuiness and more to do with Brolly looking for his headline and looking out for his best mate from his Trinity college days Pat Gilroy. It didn't influence the ref apart from maybe a couple of early yellow cards but Horan felt he had to challenge Brolly's idiotic behaviour and that's fair enough to me.
 
Saying he hung Kevin Keane out to dry is sorry is just petty or stupid or both. I can understand the urge to peddle this view with some of "genius" assessments of JMcG interview after the Laois game but still it doesn't make it any better (two wrongs and all that craic). All Horan said was he felt that he got the match ups right as in he trusted Kevin Keane to follow Murphy out the field but obviously it didn't come off. He didn't blame Keane at all but didn't absolve the players from the responsibility that when they cross over the white line the onus is on them to carry out what the have prepared for in training.

So, let me get this straight. McGuinness is fair game for any abuse under the sun & not a peep out of you but Horan in exempt from criticism of any description?

For the record he never mentioned Keane, the players he had a go at were the guys who didn't track Lacey when he came out with the ball. To say he got the match ups right is laughable. Surely he doesn't believe that.

Maybe I wasn't clear but what I was trying to get at is the best response to silly or stupid statements about JMcG comments from other posters was to point of the blatant stupidity for everyone else reading this thread to see. Then I tried to point out that you had just done the same thing to Horan with your comments by sinking down to the level of the comments that have annoyed you over the last couple of days. You have to be able to see the irony in that. You lose all credence if you start slinging mud and people will discard your comments in defence of JMcG ( personally I can see your point re: the hysterical response) which in turn gives credence to the hysterical boys who will continue to repeat their lopsided take on JMcG comments.

P.S I didn't and the interview didn't say the match ups were right but what was said is before the match he felt he had the right match ups and the Keane was the man to follow Murphy and the only way to stop that goal was to prevent Lacey (which a lazy tackle form Dillion didn't do) from having all the time in the world to pick out his captain for the goal. I don't think any other player in the Mayo squad would have faired any better than Keane on a player of M. Murphy's strength , skill and genuis when that ball was sent in by Lacey.

[Fuzzman]

Here's Oisin's take on it. He's very much of the opinion there is no strategic plan to take out Donegal's best players and that its more a rallying of the troops as they're under pressure now.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/465128/

Monaghan had to go that extra mile last week to get over the line. I didn't see the McHugh incident but from what others tell me, it looked a very hard hit but didn't look like he went to DO him. Who knows. It could have been pre-empted or just happened there at the spur of the moment.
We know in Tyrone what happened Brian McGuigan in a terrible foul but the offending player, doesn't know how bad the outcome is gonna be.

I think it was inevitable as Jim & his team have taken everything to a new level and so teams are gonna copy and try to surpass that. For me it's interesting that last year he would have preached to his players its all about doing whatever it takes. Putting yer body on the line whereas now he questions is it worth it if someone gets a bad injury.
There definitely is a line which can be crossed but Donegal often pushed over that line last year whereas I think this year they've actually become much more disciplined.

[larryin89]

tis the whole aura he has built up round himself this ''jimmys winning matches'' craic. He is a guy who thinks he has original ideas , thinks he's a lot smarter than he really is too. Now he has come to a sticky patch where as he was dreaming of being the new Kingdom of gaelic football a few months ago, he now realises its not all what he thought it was though.

He will pull every dirty trick in the book and more before and during the upcoming game that will define so much for both counties but if the truth be known there is shite running down the side of his leg thinking about Mayo.

[Sidney]

In Fairness it doesn't matter what size Gallogly is - McHugh is not exactly a giant either. It was a poor tackle.

It wasn't even a foul.

[Dont Matter]

In fairness, he said what he said before the draw was made so I don't think he was thinking of Mayo. In fact I think Mayo was the kindest draw they could have got and the one they wanted so he definitely wasn't thinking about Mayo.

[rodney trotter]

In Fairness it doesn't matter what size Gallogly is - McHugh is not exactly a giant either. It was a poor tackle.

It wasn't even a foul.

Why does every player lunge in with 2 feet off the ground for a shoulder? News to me

[Lar Naparka]

http://player.todayfm.com/player/podcasts/Championship_Sunday/Championship_Sunday/2204/0/jim_mcguinness

Does Jim have a point here or is it just a bit of crying?

I think it is a bit ironic as Donegal can hit as hard as anyone...

Jimmy has a point without doubt but he's doing a bit of crying as well.
I would grant him a bit of leeway here as he was speaking in the immediate aftermath of the Ulster final and was understandably worked up. However, it is a bit ironic that he should be the first manager to mention the dangers of "physicality."
There's too much physicality creeping into the game and it's not all of the healthy man to man variety either.
Sooner or later unless remedial action is taken, someone will get seriously injured and it won't necessarily be a Donegal player.

Lar I could be wrong but he is talking in the aftermath of the Laois game as he says that McHugh has missed a weeks work.  He is having a f**king laugh in terms of the 'physicality'.  The game has evolved and the irony is that McHugh was actually hit by the smallest player on the Monaghan team in Jinxy who also had to be taken off with a badly busted eye and whatever other injuries and pains as a result.  This physicality has been in the game for as long as I remember, the only difference now is that the players are better 'conditioned' than ever previously and as a result can take the hits and give the hits with greater ferocity.  I must say that in terms of 'dirty' play I actually feel the game has become 'cleaner' over the last number of years but there is a different approach in regards to the general circumstances around each game.  I think my old mate has summed it up best

'Football is not a math problem to be solved. It is not about who the fastest, fittest player is'
Have managers lost the essence of their role?

By Tony McEntee

One of the great misjudgements of modern management is that everything that matters must be measured and that if something cannot be measured, it does not matter. Strength, speed, endurance are the original must-have tools of the trade. Everything has a number, a target, a goal.
Every session must be improved upon. Your every movement is tracked by GPS, your every collision rated. Then there is the mental aspect. Temper, discipline, reaction, lack of reaction — everything matters.

Have we lost what is the true point of management? Is management not about bringing out the best from a bunch of individuals? To get them to work as a unit which stereotypically is stronger than the sum of its parts? In Gaelic football this means producing a performance on the field of play, the ability to replicate what you have been trained to do under intense competitive pressure. By extension, then it is our duty as management to ensure that, when under this intense pressure, individuals do not revert to a default mode which is contrary to the one the team has been conditioned for. The difficulty is doing all this while allowing enough room for individual brilliance to thrive.

Donegal and Laois both resemble teams which have bought into the 'everything must be measured' mind-set. The net result is a game devoid of creativity, freedom of expression, individual flair and risk-taking. The opening passage of play was exactly this. Strength, pace and passion aplenty but what both teams needed was someone with creativity, the vision and composure to look up and tread a ball into an inside forward or draw a scoreable free.

For the opening 11 minutes this madness continued before Marty Duffy awarded Colm McFadden a scoreable opportunity. It is not that either team were incapable. Laois, with the opening move of second half, illustrated this point when Conor Meredith finished a lovely passage of play with a well-taken score. Indeed Donegal worked a number of opportunities for Patrick McBrearty throughout the match, some which resulted in scores.

Spectators and the pre-match atmosphere can have a strange bearing on games. I've played in many matches where the anger was palpable but this is the first match I attended as a spectator where there was anger everywhere. It was initially a nervous apprehension emanating from the Donegal supporters but when the game started Laois played on this and heightened the on-the-field physical and verbal stakes. Soon it had spilled over to the sideline and onto Jim McGuinness and Justin McNulty, over an off-the-ball incident. Then beside me a band of five Donegal supporters entered the stand looking for their pre-bought seats which had been occupied. They were 15 minutes late for a game which had been deferred by 30 minutes. The signs were ominous. By the end of the half Donegal supporters were jeering at Laois's shooting inaccuracies. Need I remind you that after 22 minutes of play the score was one point each?

The second-half was as confusing as it was frustrating. The standard of play from both teams left a lot to be desired. Misdirected fist passing, slow play and indecision were key aspects.

In fact the Donegal supporters in the stand were shouting at the players to make more forward progress while attacking and for Jim McGuinness to substitute their captain Michael Murphy.

Another aspect was the decision-making going forward. There is no doubt that skilled scoring forwards should be the ones teams try to give the final pass to. This is true whether it be in Kerry with Colm Cooper or Donegal with Colm McFadden but the player in possession behaved like he wasn't allowed to shoot on Saturday. If this is true then we have succumbed to a level of player control beyond what I believe is necessary.

There is a principle, christened Einstein's razor, which states that "everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler". Now isn't that a novel idea. The issue as I see it is that changing a traditional outcome-centred ethos into a purpose-driven ethos requires a shift in perspective that is challenging but not impossible. The great advantage in such a shift is that the direction feels natural and meaningful to people, once they get past their engrained cynicism about change. That purpose-driven ethos takes account of the enjoyment of playing and the enrichment we get when playing to potential. Even if the result is less than favourable.

Do you think Galway or Donegal are happiest today? I would suggest Galway as they had success this year which is not rated by medals or trophies but by personal achievement and performance.

Football is not a math problem to be solved. It is not about who the fastest, strongest, fittest player is. It is not about who hits hardest or about who can spout the most verbal insults. Maximising any one thing is at the expense of many other important things. This deficit can be fatal. Gaelic football is a complex, evolving living entity and we need to have the requisite skill set, mind-set and heart-set to do so. As managers we must never knowingly allow the concepts of 'enjoyment' and 'performance' to be harmed just to benefit one of the outcome-centred stakeholders in the short term.

Laois have come as far as they are capable of this year. Many adjustments are required if they wish to progress to the quarter-finals next year. Donegal may have one last performance in them and now is the time for it.

Irish Examiner
Monday 29 July 2013

You are right, BC: it was after the Laois game alright; I never quite wake up until I get the first cup of Java inside me. (Mind you, I'm not too sharp then either.)
"Do as I say; not as I do" could well be Jimmy's tagline when he speaks of the dangers of "physicality."
But the danger of someone getting seriously injured is increasing as managers use every technological aid imaginable to suck the last ounce of performance out of their players.
Players are faster, fitter and generally better-conditioned than any who went before them and more highly motivated to boot.
A parallel with rugby can be drawn where the number of minor injuries is decreasing steadily but those of the high speed collision variety are on the increase.
I agree with you that the game has become cleaner as time goes by the dangers of serious injuries is increasing.
I can go back a lot further than you and take my word for it: The further you go, the dirtier it was- if you follow me.
"Catch and kick" was literally, well, catch and kick. You could add in bite , boot and bollack as well.
Anyone who doubts this should take a look at the "Mickey Ned" incident that happened in the '75 AI final against Dublin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9VY7BKKCw

I'd say fifteen on both sides would get a red card in the first ten minutes if that game was to be .played today.
I agree with everything Tony McEntee has to say.
Spontaneity has gone from the game and every move on the field is plotted before hand. A player needs permission to fart nowadays.
Jimmy McGuinness knows more about this than anyone else but still I agree with the central point of his argument;
Sooner or later, a player will get seriously injured if the game keeps evolving the way it is going now

[screenexile]

Surely 4 concussions in 3 games is too many for any team to face? Should he not mention this at all? As has been said he didn't know they were playing Mayo at the time so why are the bottlers so up in arms about it?

[sheamy]

It could be argued that the turning point for this Donegal team came as the result of a concussion. Inflicted on Joe McMahon in the 2011 Ulster semi final. The incident changed the momentum of that game which saw them into the Ulster final. The rest is history as they say.

[ONeill]

To be fair to Jimmy, he knows what he's talking about.

A hairier Jimmy - 2nd clip in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkKNHF-N8Ec

[screenexile]

It could be argued that the turning point for this Donegal team came as the result of a concussion. Inflicted on Joe McMahon in the 2011 Ulster semi final. The incident changed the momentum of that game which saw them into the Ulster final. The rest is history as they say.

I'm not condoning the McLoone McMahon incident but these 1 off things can happen in a game and I don't think he was specifically sent out to clarry the head off McMahon but he got caught up in the occasion and did it (and should have got a red btw).

4 occasions in 3 matches would seem to be a worrying trend though and if it were a team I was managing I would certainly be venting my frustration on the issue!

[brokencrossbar1]

It could be argued that the turning point for this Donegal team came as the result of a concussion. Inflicted on Joe McMahon in the 2011 Ulster semi final. The incident changed the momentum of that game which saw them into the Ulster final. The rest is history as they say.

I'm not condoning the McLoone McMahon incident but these 1 off things can happen in a game and I don't think he was specifically sent out to clarry the head off McMahon but he got caught up in the occasion and did it (and should have got a red btw).

4 occasions in 3 matches would seem to be a worrying trend though and if it were a team I was managing I would certainly be venting my frustration on the issue!

But screen in fairness it may have as much to do with the way Donegal play the game as it has about the opposition.  McHugh was not hit blind sided in the Ulster Final and he went in with as much force as Gallogly hence Gallogly left the field of play and didn't return due to an eye that wouldn't look out of place in a middle-weight boxing match!  I am not sure about the other incidents but surely in my view Jimmy should suck it up and keep it internal.  Play the game a bit better than he has and use this as a means to motivate as opposed to throw out fishes for the seagulls.  Compare his attitude now and compare it to his attitude towards Kildare and McGeeney and you see how things have changed.  Jimmy should focus on beating teams on the field rather than through the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiNH733VVAk