Author Topic: The Provincial Championships  (Read 2207 times)

Lar Naparka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4320
  • I just know this is gonna be our year!
    • View Profile
The Provincial Championships
« on: July 24, 2013, 10:03:46 AM »
Here are Paraic Duffy's thoughts on the subject.
Discuss.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-chief-defends-provincial-system-and-claims-critics-just-dont-get-it-29443738.html

COLM KEYS – 24 JULY 2013
The GAA's director general Paraic Duffy has said that ardent critics of the provincial championships calling for change "don't really get it."
Speaking at the launch of the All-Ireland football championships in Glenswilly, home club of Donegal captain Michael Murphy, Duffy gave firm backing to the current structures after three successive weekends that collectively brought 94 years of famine to an end for three different counties in hurling and football.
He also acknowledged that pitch invasions remain a concern for the Association but are a bigger issue inCroke Park – because of crowd sizes – than anywhere else.
Monaghan-native Duffy was a delighted figure in the Gerry Arthurs Stand on Sunday as Monaghan celebrated a first Ulster title in 25 years, with fans spilling out on the pitch afterwards for the presentation.
"I've always felt that we should keep the provincial championship," he said. "For Monaghan players and supporters that was a huge goal itself, to win a provincial title. I was in Monaghan at the celebrations. People who say 'get rid of the championships' don't really get it.
"If you tell anyone in Monaghan or, say, in Limerick at the Munster hurling final last Sunday, that it doesn't matter... I don't think there is an awful lot wrong with the present system. If there is a better system, fine, but the qualifiers allowed us to retain the provincial championships and allowed us to have different pairings," he said.
He also pointed out that if there had been an 'A' and 'B' championship split evenly, as some suggested should happen, Cavan, Monaghan and London would not have made such progress this summer.
"Sport has to be about the romance, about the small guy having his day. Most counties get their day. The present system is the one which best suits the GAA," said Duffy.
"There are probably teams who aren't good enough to compete, but it's a very small number. Those counties want to be a part of it and want to compete in it. If you have another system, say with eight groups of four, you'd have far more mismatches than with the current system.
"I still believe that we should retain the provincial championships in tandem with the qualifier system."
Duffy admitted it was "something very special" to look down at the Monaghan supporters on Sunday.
"The reason for us saying no to pitch invasions is because it's a health and safety issue. Last Sunday in Clones you had 32,000 people, the week before in Limerick you had 40,000, but in Croke Park you have potential for 80,000 people to come onto the pitch," he said.
"It's a bigger issue in Croke Park than anywhere else. This isn't a GAA crusade. It was done in Croke Park on Garda advice. It is dangerous. It's great if it goes off well.
"The other problem in Croke Park is that when people come onto the pitch they all go out onto Jones' Road again. That's what brought it to a head, where people were coming out there and pushing in different directions."
Duffy said Croke Park must ultimately accept responsibility for any adverse reception referee Joe McQuillan got off the crowd in Newbridge after Saturday night's defeat to Tyrone.
"You can say that it was a Kildare venue, but it was a Central Council fixture, so the onus is on us to look at what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again," he said.


Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15840
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 12:17:55 PM »
I pretty much agree with Duffy. The ideas of scrapping or divorcing the provincials from the championship (an act that would only result in their slow and painful deaths) have always seemed to emerge from the sort of blue sky thinking that has little regard for the power and the meaning for traditions, two things absolutely intrinsic to the GAA's appeal.

The big task for the GAA is to make a calendar that makes sense from the current pieces. Any (minor) editing of the championship should only come about when we don't have situations like it taking nine or ten weeks to run off the Connacht championship.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 12:28:37 PM by Syferus »

cluaineois

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 12:27:37 PM »
I agree wholeheartily with Duffy . It may need some tweeking with regard to the length of time it takes to run off the provincial championship but i still don't think that a better option has been devised yet.
once your a clone your never alone

Zulu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7331
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 12:37:44 PM »
Quote
The idea of scrapping or divorcing the provincials from the championship (an act that would only result in their slow and painful deaths)

So they aren't worthy enough to stand on their own feet, if true it tells you all you need to know about their 'value'.

Quote
The idea of scrapping or divorcing the provincials from the championship have always seemed to emerge from the sort of blue sky thinking that has little regard for the power and the meaning for traditions, two things absolutely intrinsic to the GAA's appeal.

Nonsense on every conceivable level, it doesn't even make sense.

Quote
It may need some tweeking with regard to the length of time it takes to run off the provincial championship but i still don't think that a better option has been devised yet.

Pretty much any option is better on a number of grounds. List out how the current season is better than alternatives under different headings, like;

1. Structure

2. Club football/hurling

3. Promotion of the GAA

4. Finance

5. Player/Team development

6. Competitive equality

7. Logic

8. Expansion of the GAA into areas where it isn't currently as popular as it should be, e.g. Galway, Limerick and Derry cities

9. Bringing the games to people

10. Logic, yeah I know I've this one down twice but it's a biggie if you support the current structure.

PS I'm happy to retain the provincial championships if they can fit into a logical, structured season that gives CB's some chance of putting together a structured season for their clubs.

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15840
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 12:43:05 PM »
I doubt the Sligo Rovers lads will start turning up to Sligo's championship matches if they add Donegal or Longford to the Connacht championship. An open draw, now that might get their juices flowing, no soccer for them once that trick is pulled.

If you actually think people who don't care about the GAA are going to change their minds because you fiddle with the format of the championship you're having a long, hard laugh at our expense.

The only way you win mind-share is by either winning, developing grassroots or promoting the sport through advertising, camps and other media-friendly activities. The structure of the championship doesn't even register on that scale and if that's the rationale behind change it's a poor one to say the least.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 12:46:21 PM by Syferus »

deiseach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8420
    • View Profile
    • Come  on the Déise
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 12:57:03 PM »
Duffy sums up my feelings on the matter very well. Still miss the pitch invasions though - not that I'm likely to be a position to want to get onto the Croke Park turf any time soon.

Zulu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7331
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 01:27:32 PM »
Quote
If you actually think people who don't care about the GAA are going to change their minds because you fiddle with the format of the championship you're having a long, hard laugh at our expense.

Provincial rugby in Ireland showed that people who never cared about a sport before can become passionate (albeit on a superficial level for many) about a team/sport when you serve it up to them.


Quote
The only way you win mind-share is by either winning, developing grassroots or promoting the sport through advertising, camps and other media-friendly activities.

Ah, no it's not. Having a season where people can go to games handily and following teams over the course of a season breeds familiarity which helps people feel part of it. If you're not a GAA man it can be very hard to associate with your club or county team.

I made a list there and asked how it is the best option under those headings, feel free to add to it if you like but please answer if you expect to be taken seriously.

orangeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19378
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 01:35:06 PM »
Duffy sums up my feelings on the matter very well. Still miss the pitch invasions though - not that I'm likely to be a position to want to get onto the Croke Park turf any time soon.


I ran onto the pitch with the Monaghan lads ( I stole a Monaghan flag from a young buck who was sat beside me ) on Sunday just so as to say I was part of the last pitch invasion.

It was class crack.


Priceless moment.

blewuporstuffed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4394
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2013, 01:46:40 PM »
I would like to see the allireland split into a senior & junior knockout competition with 16 teams in each.

i think the provincial championships should be kept, but played as a separate 'cup'  competition.
the top 16 teams would be decided by the 4 provincial winners plus the next 12 highest placed league finishes.
I think this would give added importance to the league, aswell as having the league title itself to aim for.

the league would remain split into 4 divisons, with league titles for finishing top of each divison


so that would leave div 1/2/3/4 league titles to play for.
4 provincial titles up for grabs
1 senior & 1 junior all ireland winner

i'm sure there are loads of holes in this format that people will point out, but i think it makes more sense than the current one
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Zulu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7331
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 02:00:23 PM »
There's holes in any proposal but there's a lot to recommend that format. The two main issues I'd have with it would be the fact that a division 4 team knows from the get go that it can't play for Sam through it's league position and if there was a weak province, i.e. one where there wasn't really any good team counties in that province would have a distinct advantage over others. I'd be fairly supportive of any format that gives everyone the same path to an All Ireland final with a pathway to success if you are any good.

It would be easy to keep the provinces if you couldn't care less about the clubs but fitting in the provincials or creating a format where they retain importance within the All Ireland race is nigh on impossible as far as I can see.

thewobbler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • View Profile
    • Balllyholland Harps GAC
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 02:06:08 PM »

Provincial rugby in Ireland showed that people who never cared about a sport before can become passionate (albeit on a superficial level for many) about a team/sport when you serve it up to them.


1. Provincial rugby was not created in the noughties. It already had a serious base of support, and natural allegiances in place. Scottish rugby shows the other side of the coin, when you "create" teams.

2. There are only 4 provinces. There never will be any more, any less. Which creates high quality sport and large catchment areas. It is the exact opposite of the GAA intercounty system.


Anyone scrapping the Provincial Championships needs to step back and ask a simple question.

If you were an inter county player, would you take greater pride in winning the biggest regional prize, or in winning a second tier tournament?

Second tier competitions at county level have never worked, and will never work, simply because the players do not value winning these competitions. Why (as an amateur) train you bollocks out 40+ weeks a year to play second tier? It makes no sense.

deiseach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8420
    • View Profile
    • Come  on the Déise
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 02:13:34 PM »
2. There are only 4 provinces. There never will be any more, any less. Which creates high quality sport and large catchment areas. It is the exact opposite of the GAA intercounty system.

You'll get the Meath lads started if you're not careful.

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16305
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2013, 03:08:15 PM »
. Why (as an amateur) train you bollocks out 40+ weeks a year to play second tier? It makes no sense.
Equally Why (as an amateur) train you bollocks out 40+ weeks a year  to play in a competition where you might very well never win a game for 5 or 6 years?
Has anyone asked the players of -;
Antrim, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Carlow, Leitrim, Clare, Tipp, Waterford, Longford etc etc if they'd prefer a second tier competition after they exit the Provincials??

As for the Provinvials -  No matter what system(s) may come in the future they will have to be kept.
Monaghan, Limerick and Dublin hurlers in the last few weeks showed how important they are to success starved Counties.
They might mean eff all to Kerry or Dublin ( or even Mayowr) footballers or Kilkenny hurlers but to the rest of us we'd be damn glad to win one now and then.
As for Padraig Duffy - I wonder had he the same strong views a few weeks ago  ;D
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

Captain Obvious

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5993
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 03:45:11 PM »
I would like to see the allireland split into a senior & junior knockout competition with 16 teams in each.

i think the provincial championships should be kept, but played as a separate 'cup'  competition.
the top 16 teams would be decided by the 4 provincial winners plus the next 12 highest placed league finishes.
I think this would give added importance to the league, aswell as having the league title itself to aim for.

the league would remain split into 4 divisons, with league titles for finishing top of each divison


so that would leave div 1/2/3/4 league titles to play for.
4 provincial titles up for grabs
1 senior & 1 junior all ireland winner

i'm sure there are loads of holes in this format that people will point out, but i think it makes more sense than the current one

If that format was in place this summer Cavan would be playing in junior knockout competition?

Bingo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4253
    • View Profile
Re: The Provincial Championships
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2013, 04:18:14 PM »
I'd be on for keeping the Provincials.  :D

To me the bigger problem is the length of time it takes to play them. Ulster for instance started on 19th May and finished last Sunday - 21st July. 8 matches played in that time, far too long.

A tighter more compact Provincial season would allow for more scope for changes to qualifiers/B competition and also create a more structured fixtures plan for club fixtures. I also feel their would be more buzz with games played on same weekends and with the new white elephant stadium in casement, double fixtures will also be possible.