Nurses Strike

[brokencrossbar1]

My wife is due to give birth in the next few weeks in Cork and we have been at the heart of the whole issue as she needs extra attention than your average pregnancy would have.  I looked at the situation on two fronts.  If I were to follow the PR war being waged through the press and TV, I would have absolutley no sympathy for the nurses and the midwives.  Their representatives come across very poorly and do not seem to have their best interests at heart.  As has been pointed out how is a normal Joe like me supposed to be able to back them up when it is alleged that they have an average 56K per annum wage.

The flip side to that is over recent days my wife has been very ill.  We were able to get speaking to the midwife and a nurse called us back last night about some information that we needed.  Her consultant rang her from outside of theatre to advise her on something, and then got her head nurse to call her again and sent her a text message telling her to stop running aorund like a mad one(as my wife always does).  We do not get private care but we are treated like private patients the treatment is that good.

I can only compliment them for the treatrment we are receiving but condemn their so called leaders for failing to adequately get across to the average member of public what the reality is. 

[tyronie]

Tyronie,
What exactly did yu expect to be doing when you started nursing?

I expected to 'nurse' patients. which is still the part of the job i love - spending time with the patients, providing care, assisting them in their daily activities. Hands on nursing!!!

What i didn't expect was to be so physically and mentally exhausted that i am unable to provide adequate individual care, to be left in charge of 35 lives without the necessary experience or support, to work in a low-morale workfoce, to spend hours on administration and bureaucracy, to be verbally and physically abused as i try to carry out essential duties.

Naive maybe.......

[Hardy]

What i didn't expect was  ... to work in a low-moral workfoce

It's true what they say about nurses, then?

[fearglasmor]

A nurse's/ student midwife opinion.........


I find it really hard to understand how people who work in totally different fields can comment on anyone else's job. i know i couldn't start commenting on what a teacher, accountant, engineer, farmer etc do because only they truly now the pressures on them. it is extremley arrogant for anyone to listen to the spin from either side of an argument and decide they know it all. Please try to understand that the PR wheels are in action on both sides!

I appreciate your point and would fully support the case that working conditions for nurses iare very poor, but from reading your post all your criticisms seem like they could be addressed by adequate staffing levels and job demarcation,  not by pay rises and shorter working hours in themselves.

Also, it is unfair to criticise people for making judgements on the basis of the information they are presented with. This is what we do in every facet of our lives. We do not know exactly what a politicians life is but we are required to make a judgement at election time based on what information is presented to us. If we are called for jury service we don't know the actual facts of the case, only what is presented to us by opposing sides. And so it is with lots of things in our lives. Instead of criticising people for making judgements I think the nurses would be better served by looking to their union leadership and ask why a profession such as theirs is being portrayed in such a poor light.

[tyronie]

adequate staffing levels and job demarcation,  not by pay rises and shorter working hours in themselves

Which all comes down to not being able to retain nurses!
There are large numbers of nurses being trained every year in Ireland! Where are they all going?

Also i don't mean to criticise i just want people to understand the PR spin does not paint an accurate picture on either side.
I personally could do without work to rule or striking and almost feel embarassed by the whole thing at present. i really think things need to change but am not convinced that current action is the best way to achieve it.

[pintsofguinness]

Well said tyronie.

It is with complete anger and fury that i have read some of the above arrogant and ill-informed posts!

That's how I'd describe them too.

BC

As has been pointed out how is a normal Joe like me supposed to be able to back them up when it is alleged that they have an average 56K per annum wage.

Because normal Joe's (at least intelligent ones) should be able to open their eyes and see beyond the spin.

[brokencrossbar1]

Pints no need for an underhand slight about me   As has been pointed out POG, when these figures are put across to the nurses reps and they go unchallenged, what are you supposed to think?   

For what it is worth I am all for the nurses getting better conditions, worked in with general better conditions throughout the health service.  The spin that is going on by both sides is wild and scary Mary is winning the battle of spin at the minute.  I have great sympathy for the nurses that the people who are going forward to fight their corner is, to my mind,  painting a very bad image of them.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

The biggest problems for the nurses are as follows:
1 - Their union leaders are a disaster in terms of PR etc
2 - Most of the country is sick and tired of the benefits given to Public Service workers in benchmarking and know that if one group gets more then every one else will get more....

The biggest problems for the nurses could be sorted out by:
1 - Employing staff to do the admin work - with the increase in admin staff it is incomprehensible why nurses have to do so much admin work.
2 - Hire more nurses which will reduce workloads and alleviate the stress/pressure they are under.

The biggest problem for the public is that:
1 - Nurses are leaving this country in droves to work in teh US/Aus where they are paid well and treated well...

[DUBSFORSAM1]

FG and co have a history of f**king up the economy.

Not really a thread to be starting a political debate on ... BUT ... FF in 1977 for making a balls of the economy. Ultimately it was the lowering of corporation tax (FG) that kicked off the boom. There was so much money over the last 10 years it was impossible to fcuk it up. The challenge for managing the economy starts now.
As a matter of interest, what exactly do you think the nurses are entitled to, i.e.: in terms of pay rise and reduced week ? Is it ok to give them this at the expenses of social partnership, inflation. One certain way to fcuk up the economy is give in to the nurses

I don't know where this average salary figure is calculated from blast

The 56K figure has been mentioned on numerous debates, interviews, etc on radio and TV over the last few days and has never been disputed by any of the nurses representatives

Lynchboy - FF screwed things up for years with the 77 manifesto....FF did well in the 80's when Dukes brought in the Tallaght strategy to support FF in their economic policies for the benefit of the country (something FF would never have done) and the biggest boost for the economy was the reduction in Corp Tax which was brought in by the Rainbow coalition....
just imo FG seem to fcuk things up in efforts to oppose what FF prev did with sometimes suicidal results.

No I dont agree that the nurses should get much more than they are on. I would grant them the 35 hour week (not that they would do 35 hours- they would do more and bank the overtime)

[pintsofguinness]

BC

Pints no need for an underhand slight about me

There was no underhand slight bc I'm sorry you seen it like that, I was just making the point that intelligent people should be able to look past the spin.  If I was going to call you a stupid f**ker I'd call you a stupid cross f**ker 

[Gnevin]

adequate staffing levels and job demarcation,  not by pay rises and shorter working hours in themselves

Which all comes down to not being able to retain nurses!
There are large numbers of nurses being trained every year in Ireland! Where are they all going?

Also i don't mean to criticise i just want people to understand the PR spin does not paint an accurate picture on either side.
I personally could do without work to rule or striking and almost feel embarassed by the whole thing at present. i really think things need to change but am not convinced that current action is the best way to achieve it.

Ok ultra cynical comment coming up but don't worry your 10% will fix all these problems

[Lone Shark]

I wouldn't say I understand the situation very well, but I would have a modicum of understanding as I spent three years living with a nurse, and as a sister in the Tallaght A&E ward, she certainly earned everything she got and deserved more.

However as was pointed out, whoever set out the nurses PR plan needs to get fired - the following are the reasons why they actually look like they might lose this battle:

(1) It's fair to say that a big part of the problem is that most hospitals do not have enough nurses on duty at any given time, and secondly they end up having a lot of staff that are temps because the hospital won't take on full timers for pension reasons etc. If this is your problem, then highlight this and the public will support you. Nobody likes the idea of themselves or a loved one being cared for by an agency nurse who won't be anywhere to be seen the next day. (Please note I don't mean this as a slight on agency nurses - this is merely how it could be perceived)

(2) The fact that one union saw fit to act but two others didn't suggests to the outsider that everything is not that bad. If it's good enough for SIPTU, why not INO? This needs to be explained.

(3) Nurses don't seem to realise that although for the last 15 years the private sector was the place to be, times have changed and people are very aware of that. Talking about €31k as being inadequate as a starting graduate's salary is not going to cut it when the average graduate starts on significantly less than that. Likewise complaining about even €40k after ten years in employment means that you are complaining about a salary that is greater more than 60% of all employees in Ireland. Add in to that that you have no risk of losing your job in a downturn, and sympathy is ebbing away hugely. The job is comparitively well paid (when benefits like pension & over time potential are taken into account), and that's as it should be. However trying to pretend that it's not is not going to cut it.

(4) People don't like work - ergo when you say something like "Nurses work very hard" people agree, but the problem is this - everyone feels like they work very hard. Some might be just wrong, but I don't meet too many people who say that their job is a handy number. I genuinely believe that Nurses' work is considerably harder than the average, but I guarantee you that there are a lot of people out there who believe their job to be as difficult/stressful if not more so.

(5) As was pointed out above, a work to rule suggests that you want to make life hard for others without making any sacrifice yourself. "We're going to work, just not very hard, and we're certainly not going to sacrifice our wages".

(6) I don't know if the nurses have a full list of demands, but according to many news sources it appears to be two things - less work, and more money for doing it. There isn't really a lot for patients in there, and it's patients and potential patients that ye need to swing over.


Right now I would guess that public opinion is firmly on the side of the Government and the HSE, and as long as that is the case, with an election in the offing there won't be any backing down. Seeing as even I'm divided on the issue when two years ago I felt Ann (my then housemate) was grossly under-rewarded for what she did, it shows that the PR battle matters. I suspect the officers of the INO might find re-election tricky.

[Bogball XV]

Good post Loneshark, for the record nurses salary scales are here:
http://www.ino.ie/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=35&ItemID=3625&mid=6977
and here
http://www.ino.ie/DesktopModules/articles/Documents/salary_scales_June%2006.pdf
Looking at those figures, I'd say the reason why the nurses union bosses didn't challenge the 56k, was because it's probably true - a more telling figure might be the median salary, however, even that is probably quite high too.

[Silky]

That's great money. What qualifications do you need to get into nursing? I'll consider it for that money plus a state pension and over time and bank work on your day off and the chance to go to USA/Canada/Australia. Not a bad number really and they're looking for an extra €10,000 pa? Wouldn't we all like that?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

56k for someone with full qualificationas and over 10 years experience in a valuable job is not that much....