Author Topic: Doping - don't trust anybody  (Read 12658 times)

Denn Forever

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Doping - don't trust anybody
« on: July 15, 2013, 02:48:51 PM »
More doping in athletics?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23307913

I thought the various athletic bodies had approved lists of safe medicines/supplements?
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

An Gaeilgoir

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 08:16:46 PM »
Listening to that muppet kiernan on the radio this evening, trying to play it down...............and he has no time for the GAA!!

Capt Pat

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 08:33:01 PM »
It is just a matter of time before the top man in sprinting gets caught out, I can't wait. He has really been pushing his luck.

Wildweasel74

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 09:52:51 PM »
The problem in running is they rely alot on supplements, and to be honest none of them are really up to date in whats in them unless they are a chemist, the runner will take whats given to them and place trust on other. the fact 5 Jamaicans have all popped up at the same time seems to indicate they all been given the same thing and all tested positive from this. Gay trains with some of these Jamaicans also. in any sport u try to gain a edge but i find it hard to believe they knowingly take steroids these days in a sport so heavier tested. Hell the inhaler i use every day since i was 5 means i wouldnt pass a drug cheat. Played football all my life using it, hardly classifies as a drug cheat. Thats why it annoyed me when frankie sheenan picked up a ban for inhaler use a few yrs bck. With GAA footballers getting tested, is use of inhaler allowed if u have history using them??

An Gaeilgoir

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 09:53:32 PM »
If i had a suspicious mind, all those Jamaicans offered up to protect him.....maybe.....

Wildweasel74

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 09:55:21 PM »
Bolt wasnt one of the 5 with a positive test, though Powell was, though he had a built not out of place in the WWE

INDIANA

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 10:10:13 PM »
The problem in running is they rely alot on supplements, and to be honest none of them are really up to date in whats in them unless they are a chemist, the runner will take whats given to them and place trust on other. the fact 5 Jamaicans have all popped up at the same time seems to indicate they all been given the same thing and all tested positive from this. Gay trains with some of these Jamaicans also. in any sport u try to gain a edge but i find it hard to believe they knowingly take steroids these days in a sport so heavier tested. Hell the inhaler i use every day since i was 5 means i wouldnt pass a drug cheat. Played football all my life using it, hardly classifies as a drug cheat. Thats why it annoyed me when frankie sheenan picked up a ban for inhaler use a few yrs bck. With GAA footballers getting tested, is use of inhaler allowed if u have history using them??

are you having  a laugh? athletes are ahead of the testers in many ways

INDIANA

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 10:11:26 PM »
It is just a matter of time before the top man in sprinting gets caught out, I can't wait. He has really been pushing his luck.

Bolt has been a freak since 15. So I'm not as convinced he's definitely on them. Phelps beat a lot of cheats as well.


Declan

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 08:20:53 AM »
I'm normally skeptical when it comes to the drugs issue at top level sports but in Bolt's case I think he's just a freak of nature.

Interesting article with David Gillick this morning:

After processing the mild surprise and nagging disgust that both Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell had failed a doping test – the latest damning indictment on the sport, yet neither of whom he’d any reason to doubt – there was only one thing David Gillick felt like doing.
So he drove the short distance up to Marley Park, ran repeat hills next to the playground, and followed that with a weights session in the GAA clubhouse at nearby Ballinteer St John’s.
This was his old stomping ground, where Gillick first dreamed of running on the world stage, of standing on the medal podium to the tune of Amhrán na bhFiann. It was here Gillick took the first strides towards fulfilling that dream, which within a few years saw him win two European Indoor gold medals in the 400 metres, and run that still brilliant Irish record of 44.77 seconds.
It was here, he told me, that the mild surprise and nagging disgust turned to anger, and why now more than ever, Gillick feels the sport he still loves is being allowed to die.

Sad part
He’s not alone; to anyone else who still cares in that way – and we’re dying out ourselves – this is the sad part of what Gay and Powell have again revealed, that the sport still has the appetite for destruction, while its credibility drops dangerously close to zero.
Gillick has had his critics over the years, not always delivering on the big stage, but it’s never been through lack of effort. In 2009 he made the final of the World Championships in Berlin, finished an excellent sixth, as the American LaShawn Merritt cruised to the gold medal. A year later Merritt failed a doping test, and blamed it on a penis enlargement product, “ExtenZe”. His standard two-year ban was later reduced to 21 months, just in time for Merritt to be back competing at the London Olympics.
Gillick, in the meantime, after narrowly missing out on a medal at the 2010 European Championships in Barcelona, decided he needed to change something to step up to the next level. So he talked his way into one of the leading sprint training groups in the world, and moved to Clermont, Florida to join Gay, his coach Lance Brauman, and some of the other top names in the sport. Yet in trying, ultimately, to match these so-called Fastest Men on Earth, Gillick fell further behind, that being the very reason why doping still makes the crucial difference, and why as long as the penalty doesn’t fit the crime, will continue to do so.
“Yeah, I tried to stick with that, and for a while I did,” says Gillick. “Then I got as far as February and I tore my calf muscle, broke down completely. That’s when I started to question the intensity that these guys were training at, knocking it out, week after week. At that time Tyson Gay had a few injury problems, too. He would hop on a plane, go away for a week or two, then come back flying again.
“At the time it was hard to know what to imply by that, but in hindsight, it makes perfect sense now.
“Now I never saw anyone doping, or was never bluntly offered anything, because this kind of stuff doesn’t go on down at the track. It’s done in their own apartments, houses, wherever. But that’s what performance enhancing drugs are about, allowing athletes to train hard the whole year round, unlike us mere mortals.
“That’s what’s really hitting me, wondering how many of these athletes that actually beat me were taking drugs? That’s the hardest part. Was I done out of a medal, or even fourth, or fifth? Have I been robbed of something?”
That’s the equally sad part of the Gay and Powell affair, that they’re not only cheating themselves but the whole sport and everyone in it.
What typically separates the cheats from those being cheated, however, is the level of noise and uproar about both the testing process and the process that follows: there are those who remain suspiciously quiet.
“I know the lifetime ban won’t happen, for legal reasons or whatever. But there’s no reason they can’t make it a four-year ban. That’s at least is an Olympic cycle. And when an athlete sees one of their closest rivals get done there should be more noise. I’m not hearing enough of that noise.

AZOffaly

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 08:25:29 AM »
I'm normally skeptical when it comes to the drugs issue at top level sports but in Bolt's case I think he's just a freak of nature.

Interesting article with David Gillick this morning:

After processing the mild surprise and nagging disgust that both Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell had failed a doping test – the latest damning indictment on the sport, yet neither of whom he’d any reason to doubt – there was only one thing David Gillick felt like doing.
So he drove the short distance up to Marley Park, ran repeat hills next to the playground, and followed that with a weights session in the GAA clubhouse at nearby Ballinteer St John’s.
This was his old stomping ground, where Gillick first dreamed of running on the world stage, of standing on the medal podium to the tune of Amhrán na bhFiann. It was here Gillick took the first strides towards fulfilling that dream, which within a few years saw him win two European Indoor gold medals in the 400 metres, and run that still brilliant Irish record of 44.77 seconds.
It was here, he told me, that the mild surprise and nagging disgust turned to anger, and why now more than ever, Gillick feels the sport he still loves is being allowed to die.

Sad part
He’s not alone; to anyone else who still cares in that way – and we’re dying out ourselves – this is the sad part of what Gay and Powell have again revealed, that the sport still has the appetite for destruction, while its credibility drops dangerously close to zero.
Gillick has had his critics over the years, not always delivering on the big stage, but it’s never been through lack of effort. In 2009 he made the final of the World Championships in Berlin, finished an excellent sixth, as the American LaShawn Merritt cruised to the gold medal. A year later Merritt failed a doping test, and blamed it on a penis enlargement product, “ExtenZe”. His standard two-year ban was later reduced to 21 months, just in time for Merritt to be back competing at the London Olympics.
Gillick, in the meantime, after narrowly missing out on a medal at the 2010 European Championships in Barcelona, decided he needed to change something to step up to the next level. So he talked his way into one of the leading sprint training groups in the world, and moved to Clermont, Florida to join Gay, his coach Lance Brauman, and some of the other top names in the sport. Yet in trying, ultimately, to match these so-called Fastest Men on Earth, Gillick fell further behind, that being the very reason why doping still makes the crucial difference, and why as long as the penalty doesn’t fit the crime, will continue to do so.
“Yeah, I tried to stick with that, and for a while I did,” says Gillick. “Then I got as far as February and I tore my calf muscle, broke down completely. That’s when I started to question the intensity that these guys were training at, knocking it out, week after week. At that time Tyson Gay had a few injury problems, too. He would hop on a plane, go away for a week or two, then come back flying again.
“At the time it was hard to know what to imply by that, but in hindsight, it makes perfect sense now.
“Now I never saw anyone doping, or was never bluntly offered anything, because this kind of stuff doesn’t go on down at the track. It’s done in their own apartments, houses, wherever. But that’s what performance enhancing drugs are about, allowing athletes to train hard the whole year round, unlike us mere mortals.
“That’s what’s really hitting me, wondering how many of these athletes that actually beat me were taking drugs? That’s the hardest part. Was I done out of a medal, or even fourth, or fifth? Have I been robbed of something?”
That’s the equally sad part of the Gay and Powell affair, that they’re not only cheating themselves but the whole sport and everyone in it.
What typically separates the cheats from those being cheated, however, is the level of noise and uproar about both the testing process and the process that follows: there are those who remain suspiciously quiet.
“I know the lifetime ban won’t happen, for legal reasons or whatever. But there’s no reason they can’t make it a four-year ban. That’s at least is an Olympic cycle. And when an athlete sees one of their closest rivals get done there should be more noise. I’m not hearing enough of that noise.

Why Declan? Why do we think he just happens to be a freak of nature when practically every other top sprinter, including lads he beats regularly, are dirty? Is it his personality, or just the fact that he seems to be a nice guy?

I have to say, I can't believe he isn't juiced.

Corner Forward

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 08:40:37 AM »
I'm normally skeptical when it comes to the drugs issue at top level sports but in Bolt's case I think he's just a freak of nature.

Interesting article with David Gillick this morning:

After processing the mild surprise and nagging disgust that both Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell had failed a doping test – the latest damning indictment on the sport, yet neither of whom he’d any reason to doubt – there was only one thing David Gillick felt like doing.
So he drove the short distance up to Marley Park, ran repeat hills next to the playground, and followed that with a weights session in the GAA clubhouse at nearby Ballinteer St John’s.
This was his old stomping ground, where Gillick first dreamed of running on the world stage, of standing on the medal podium to the tune of Amhrán na bhFiann. It was here Gillick took the first strides towards fulfilling that dream, which within a few years saw him win two European Indoor gold medals in the 400 metres, and run that still brilliant Irish record of 44.77 seconds.
It was here, he told me, that the mild surprise and nagging disgust turned to anger, and why now more than ever, Gillick feels the sport he still loves is being allowed to die.

Sad part
He’s not alone; to anyone else who still cares in that way – and we’re dying out ourselves – this is the sad part of what Gay and Powell have again revealed, that the sport still has the appetite for destruction, while its credibility drops dangerously close to zero.
Gillick has had his critics over the years, not always delivering on the big stage, but it’s never been through lack of effort. In 2009 he made the final of the World Championships in Berlin, finished an excellent sixth, as the American LaShawn Merritt cruised to the gold medal. A year later Merritt failed a doping test, and blamed it on a penis enlargement product, “ExtenZe”. His standard two-year ban was later reduced to 21 months, just in time for Merritt to be back competing at the London Olympics.
Gillick, in the meantime, after narrowly missing out on a medal at the 2010 European Championships in Barcelona, decided he needed to change something to step up to the next level. So he talked his way into one of the leading sprint training groups in the world, and moved to Clermont, Florida to join Gay, his coach Lance Brauman, and some of the other top names in the sport. Yet in trying, ultimately, to match these so-called Fastest Men on Earth, Gillick fell further behind, that being the very reason why doping still makes the crucial difference, and why as long as the penalty doesn’t fit the crime, will continue to do so.
“Yeah, I tried to stick with that, and for a while I did,” says Gillick. “Then I got as far as February and I tore my calf muscle, broke down completely. That’s when I started to question the intensity that these guys were training at, knocking it out, week after week. At that time Tyson Gay had a few injury problems, too. He would hop on a plane, go away for a week or two, then come back flying again.
“At the time it was hard to know what to imply by that, but in hindsight, it makes perfect sense now.
“Now I never saw anyone doping, or was never bluntly offered anything, because this kind of stuff doesn’t go on down at the track. It’s done in their own apartments, houses, wherever. But that’s what performance enhancing drugs are about, allowing athletes to train hard the whole year round, unlike us mere mortals.
“That’s what’s really hitting me, wondering how many of these athletes that actually beat me were taking drugs? That’s the hardest part. Was I done out of a medal, or even fourth, or fifth? Have I been robbed of something?”
That’s the equally sad part of the Gay and Powell affair, that they’re not only cheating themselves but the whole sport and everyone in it.
What typically separates the cheats from those being cheated, however, is the level of noise and uproar about both the testing process and the process that follows: there are those who remain suspiciously quiet.
“I know the lifetime ban won’t happen, for legal reasons or whatever. But there’s no reason they can’t make it a four-year ban. That’s at least is an Olympic cycle. And when an athlete sees one of their closest rivals get done there should be more noise. I’m not hearing enough of that noise.

Why Declan? Why do we think he just happens to be a freak of nature when practically every other top sprinter, including lads he beats regularly, are dirty? Is it his personality, or just the fact that he seems to be a nice guy?

I have to say, I can't believe he isn't juiced.

I wouldn’t say just because Bolt has beaten these guys who have been on drugs means he has had to be on them himself.
I read Dwain Chambers book a while back he actually found when he looked back over his race times that he didn’t performed any better when he raced on drugs than when he didn’t.  The use of drugs seemed to have more of a psychological effect rather than a physical one. When athletes on drugs race well they believe it’s down to the fact they are using banned substances and whenever they have a bad performance they feel they need to up their dosage.
The reality is for top athletes its fairly easy to use banned substances in the off season and go undetected. The main chance of getting caught is if they have been using drugs during the competition season.

Declan

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 08:44:00 AM »
No AZ it's just that he's been doing crazy times since he was a kid and is fairly open when it comes to his training regime. It does look mad when you consider that nearly everyone else has been caught alright. Maybe I'm trying to hang onto some ill informed innocence :D

I often remember a show I saw on a group of American sprinters once - think it might have been Maurice Greene's training group and one quote from a coach stood out for me. When asked about doping etc he asked the reporter what car he drove. Reporter replied normal family saloon and the coach said and when you look at a Ferrari F1 car is there a difference? Reporter replied yes obviously but what has that got to do with doping? and the coach said do you think they put the same gas into the F1 car that you put into your car?? 


ludermor

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 08:50:03 AM »
I think with Bolt he has been a freak since he was a kid and i would put him in the same category as Michael Johnson/ Michael Phelps/Ian Thorpe/Rushida who just seem to have extraordinary talent from a very early age . I have to say im normally very skeptical but i really dont think Bolt is juiced up

CCCP1

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 10:55:05 AM »
Good article from a few years ago thats worth a read:
http://www.muscleweek.com/is-usain-bolt-on-steroids

omagh_gael

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Re: Doping - don't trust anybody
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 12:03:23 PM »
Was Larry Reilly ever tested?