Its an alternative Ulster... eh GAA I mean

[Bensars]

Never going to happen.

Heard of a county treasurer saying the most profitable route for a county would to be win the national league and get knocked out in the first round of the championship or qualifers.

The qualifers gives 33 extra games/revenue , or somthing like it. excluding replays.

None of the decisions made in the last 10-15 years has one jot to do with making weaker teams stronger, giving them an oppurtunity to progress, facilitating players so that 6 months training can be over in one defeat it is purely down to more games, more television revenue, more gate reciepts.

Anyone with a compassionate view that it was for the progress of the minnows, the welfare of the player or another fantasy island ideal need their head read.

[orangeman]

Never going to happen.

Heard of a county treasurer saying the most profitable route for a county would to be win the national league and get knocked out in the first round of the championship or qualifers.

The qualifers gives 33 extra games/revenue , or somthing like it. excluding replays.

None of the decisions made in the last 10-15 years has one jot to do with making weaker teams stronger, giving them an oppurtunity to progress, facilitating players so that 6 months training can be over in one defeat it is purely down to more games, more television revenue, more gate reciepts.

Anyone with a compassionate view that it was for the progress of the minnows, the welfare of the player or another fantasy island ideal need their head read.

+1

[Hardy]

None of the decisions made in the last 10-15 years has one jot to do with making weaker teams stronger, giving them an oppurtunity to progress, facilitating players so that 6 months training can be over in one defeat it is purely down to more games, more television revenue, more gate reciepts.

You say it like it's a bad thing. More intercounty games generating more TV revenue and more gate receipts is what provides the revenue that the association survives on and that trickles down to the level at which 99% of the GAA operates. If we're sincere in our oft-quoted article of faith that the club is what the GAA is really about, then our structuring of the inter-county game should be all about making this mass-appeal, revenue-generating sector of the game as lucrative as possible. And I mean for the association, not for a few players who fancy the idea of a career in professional sport at the expense of the rest of us.

[Rossfan]

None of the decisions made in the last 10-15 years has one jot to do with making weaker teams stronger, giving them an oppurtunity to progress, facilitating players so that 6 months training can be over in one defeat it is purely down to more games, more television revenue, more gate reciepts.

You say it like it's a bad thing. More intercounty games generating more TV revenue and more gate receipts is what provides the revenue that the association survives on and that trickles down to the level at which 99% of the GAA operates. If we're sincere in our oft-quoted article of faith that the club is what the GAA is really about, then our structuring of the inter-county game should be all about making this mass-appeal, revenue-generating sector of the game as lucrative as possible. And I mean for the association,

+1.
But don't let the usual subjects let such reasoned arguments get in the way of a good oul rant against "THEM" ( Croke Park, GPA, Liam O'Neill, Padraig Duffy, etc etc) 

[theskull1]

If we're sincere in our oft-quoted article of faith that the club is what the GAA is really about, then our structuring of the inter-county game should be all about making this mass-appeal, revenue-generating sector of the game as lucrative as possible. And I mean for the association,

Taking your comment to its logical conclusion, that's a pure contradiction in my view Hardy. If all the focus goes toward Inter County and the money making end, then the club season would become farcical. Plenty on here who love the razzmatazz of the AI championship but would have little to do with their local club...fair enough ...but there's another part of the GAA (the clubs) who are trying to remain relevant. Massive amounts of club players who need regular, meaningful competition. That cannot be factored out by the money men as we all know that's digging away at the foundations of the game. Somebody help me understand whats "un-reasoned" about holding those views? 

[Bensars]

None of the decisions made in the last 10-15 years has one jot to do with making weaker teams stronger, giving them an oppurtunity to progress, facilitating players so that 6 months training can be over in one defeat it is purely down to more games, more television revenue, more gate reciepts.

You say it like it's a bad thing. More intercounty games generating more TV revenue and more gate receipts is what provides the revenue that the association survives on and that trickles down to the level at which 99% of the GAA operates. If we're sincere in our oft-quoted article of faith that the club is what the GAA is really about, then our structuring of the inter-county game should be all about making this mass-appeal, revenue-generating sector of the game as lucrative as possible. And I mean for the association, not for a few players who fancy the idea of a career in professional sport at the expense of the rest of us.

The comments were made in relation to the opening post and a restructuring of the current format. Based on that post county football would be Feb- October, on a league basis of home and away, amoung other proposals. In this instance the Club or the grass roots level would be largely ignored with leagues pushed further into the winter, with greater periods between games, or games fixed for 7pm on weekday nights.

Ross you may hold an animal farm perspective, but because someone criticises a certain element or feature of the Association, it is not a case of anti "Them" ( Croke Park, GPA, Liam O'Neill, Padraig Duffy, etc etc) 

[From the Bunker]

I actually think there is room for an Intermediate intermediate under 21 and Minor Competitions. Counties like Sligo, Leitrim, Waterford, Antrim need a run at underage. That's where the growth starts?

[Hardy]

If we're sincere in our oft-quoted article of faith that the club is what the GAA is really about, then our structuring of the inter-county game should be all about making this mass-appeal, revenue-generating sector of the game as lucrative as possible. And I mean for the association,

Taking your comment to its logical conclusion, that's a pure contradiction in my view Hardy. If all the focus goes toward Inter County and the money making end, then the club season would become farcical. Plenty on here who love the razzmatazz of the AI championship but would have little to do with their local club...fair enough ...but there's another part of the GAA (the clubs) who are trying to remain relevant. Massive amounts of club players who need regular, meaningful competition. That cannot be factored out by the money men as we all know that's digging away at the foundations of the game. Somebody help me understand whats "un-reasoned" about holding those views? 

(In reply to Bensars also)
But that's not what I said. I'm arguing that it's consistent with our objectives as an association that we structure the inter-county competition to be as lucrative as possible in generating income. Of course this shouldn't mean that the club season should be sacrificed to this end, as that would be defeating the purpose. I do recognise there's a trade-off between the two requirements. I'm simply stating the point that revenue is good - not some corrupt capitalist defilement of the GAA's ethos.

[Rossfan]

Surely it's possible to logically structure the Inter County championships to give all counties some meaningful games over the high Summer months AS WELL AS running the Club championships over the same months ?
It doesn't ( nor should it) have to be a case of either/or.
However any extensions to Championships would have to be balanced by a shorter sharper League.
Despite official protestations to the contrary the NFL is simply a pre (real) season warm up tournament involving 118 games attracting 250,000 () in total.
A new NFL of Div 1 - 12 teams in 2 Sections roughly divided on a North/South Basis, Div 2 and Div 3 of 10 similarly divided could be played in Feb/March with Finals/relegation/promotion play offs all completed by first weekend in April.
A total of maybe 80 fixtures and would bring in as many spectators no doubt as the present set up.

Then we'd have from mid April to the end of September with say 24 weekends available to be split between Club and County Championship fixtures.

[GrandMasterFlash]

The last time someone outside of Cork and Kerry to win a Munster football championship final was in 1935.

While it doesn't negate your point, Clare did win in '92.

The last time someone outside of Dublin or Meath to win a Leinster football championship was in Kildare in 2000, before that Offaly in 1997 and you're talking before 1945 since Wexford have managed it.

When one county has more people than the rest put together, it isn't really a fair competition.

Ulster is more equal, Fermanagh could have won in 08 with a freetaker. Monaghan have had their chances, Antrim have given up, but it is there for them.

I would like to remind you that Monaghan are joint second with Armagh having won 14 USFC titles. We have therefore had and taken as many chances as the mighty Armagh in Ulster.. 

[thewobbler]

Seeing as money is important:

1. Play the Provincial Championships in May and June. Straight knockout.
2. The Provincial finalists get through to the All Ireland series. Two pools of four, one team from each province. Played on Sundays in July and August. Two double headers each Sunday in Croke.
3. The top two in each pool go the AI semi-finals.
4. You can work it out from there.

That puts 15 money-spinner games in Croke Park (to replace the current 7 from quarter-finals onwards, or the 11 from last-12 onwards). It removes dozens of fixtures from the calendar with (I'm guessing) not much impact on sales.

It also means that any "weaker" county that apply the effort and perhaps gets an easier side of the draw in the Provincials, gets to play three huge games in Croke, and can only go on from it.

The other 24 counties in Ireland concentrate on club football from 1st July. 4 more join them in concentrating on club football by mid-August.


The only major downside to this is that reaching a Provincial final is as important as winning one for the "stronger" teams. But all told, by the start of July, every county knows their summer.

[Farrandeelin]

I don't know whether or not this will happen, but it's one I could see happening. There will be a set fixture schedule for counties and a set fixture schedule for clubs. Clubs will protest about not having their county players etc, but that's how I can see it panning out in the future. PS, I am involved with my club, but surely something will have to give.

[Zulu]

It's truly bizarre that anyone would want to go back to straight knockout, that serves nobody any good. I went into some detail on another thread about a format that I feel ticks a lot of the boxes but I'd happily consider any format that provides more meaningful games for teams against opponents they can compete against. As From the Bunker says, it's underage where teams can develop and with this in mind I would argue minor and U21 should be run on a league basis so that all teams get 7 to 12 games in a year. Football, hurling, minor, U21 and senior could all be run at the same time and this period would see few if any club games are played but once this 3-4 month period is over there would be plenty of time for many club competitions to get started.

There is no perfect solution so it is pointless knocking proposed formats on one or two points as all formats will have drawbacks so what we need to do is look for the best format. IMO the best format should provide a structured season with a decent number of games for all, maximise revenue, provide a clear window for the clubs and deliver more games between the top teams.

[AZOffaly]

Zulu, I see the arguments, and in an ideal world, yes. But based on what I've seen, and heard, and experienced, a large, large majority of players and fans lose interest when the team loses in the Provincial championship, and only perk up again if a few handy draws against other disinterested parties land them in a 4th round or something like that, before the ritual disembowelling by Kerry, Dublin, Donegal or someone like that.

I've thought about this a bit, and here's what I'd do.

Run the league starting in March, ending in May, with four divisions of 8 teams. (Sorry New York, no more Connacht Championship for you in my scenario).

Seed the provincial championships based on the finishing position in the league. Therefore you'd rank the Leinster teams from 1-11 based on where they finished in the league. Offaly would be approx 9th I think for example, Dublin would be seeded first.

Then you play a straight knockout Leinster Championship. Preliminary rounds to get to the last 8. Then #1 v #8 (or whoever beat them), #2 v#7, #3 v #6, #4 v #5.

When you are knocked out of the Provincial Final, then that's you done for the year. No back door, no death by a thousand cuts (or points if Offaly play Tyrone). Go back and play with your club.

If you want a second chance at that point because those teams may have earned it, then have the All Ireland 1/4 finals be the 4 winners v the 4 runners up from different provinces.

I think this approach would

a) Increase the profile of the league and give it a REAL level of importance.
b) Make every game, bar the provincial finals, a straight knockout between two unbeaten teams. Nobody is just marking time to be knocked out.
c) Protect the club fixtures, and allow county boards to at least do a mid year revision of their master fixtures when the county is knocked out in May or June.

I cannot think of any county that has developed in a sustainable fashion because of their participation in the current qualifiers. Even counties who have caught magic in a bottle a couple of times with qualifier runs like Sligo, Fermanagh, Westmeath etc etc have not *really* moved on, with the possible exception of Westmeath. I think the qualifers are a phoney war, giving big teams a second chance, while paying lip service to the development of other teams. And no matter what the players say, their actions speak louder than words in many, many counties.

[Zulu]

I think that's pretty similar to my proposal AZ but retains the provincial championships. I'd be happy enough to go with that if it were proposed though I'd still prefer to get rid of the provincials as I think they are stale and can hinder the weaker teams. As I said though you could pick holes in any format so it's a matter of delivering a sensible one to all teams at all levels and you're proposal gives it a good go.