Dublin vs Meath - Leinster Final

[INDIANA]

Fair enough, but even the fact their doing it at all indicates even the powers that be realise there's a montery imbalance that's effecting the games.

But I'm not suggesting money isn't a factor, it certainly is, just that there are things you can do when you don't have huge amounts of money.

Totally agree with that point, sure look what we've managed to do with marshy pitches and a few pennies.

I agree too, but only to a point. Roscommon are getting better underage results than the vast majority of counties but all the resourcefulness and intelligence in the world won't compete in the long run with an organisation that is being run with the same professionalism as a provincial rugby team. You only need to look at this year's All-Ireland U21 final for evidence of that, one of the best teams you've ever sent out couldn't compete.

To be fair we led them with around 12 minutes to go in the 2012 final and that was probably a more limited one that we had in 2014. Of all the games that one doesn't tell much about Dublin's money or lack of it. Sure the same Dublin team should have been beaten by Cavan a few weeks earlier. We weren't set up right that day and gave ourselves no chance of winning it. It certainly wasn't a performance that was indicative of what that team did against other talented teams the whole rest of the season.

Dublin are beatable at underage, it's senior where the chasm is starting to grow to an alarming level.

I think if you played our 2014 team u21 10 times you'd lose 9 times.

I think you could have beaten us in 2012 and had Paul Hudson not been brilliant you'd have beaten us.

But there's a point Paul Hudson man of the match in the 2012 final can't make the 26 for any championship game.

People go on about the usual rubbish like populations etc thus ignoring the real difference.

The difference is forwards. And not half forwards - inside forwards. 1-12 our players don't score anymore then anyone else. But 13-15 do and the guys who replace them after 50 minutes do the same.

That's not down to money or population just pure good coaching from an early age.

And it's done at club level. If Niall Mc Namee can be the class act off both feet he is playing for a county that's struggling at present people should ask how he got that good.

Population and money had nothing to do with it.

[Dinny Breen]

The difference is forwards. And not half forwards - inside forwards. 1-12 our players don't score anymore then anyone else. But 13-15 do and the guys who replace them after 50 minutes do the same

Bollix, your conversion rate is no different than the rest of the country 50%. Dublin excel at creating chances, they had created 27 by half-time on Sunday. For the rest of the country that is the average for the whole game.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Fair enough, but even the fact their doing it at all indicates even the powers that be realise there's a montery imbalance that's effecting the games.

But I'm not suggesting money isn't a factor, it certainly is, just that there are things you can do when you don't have huge amounts of money.

Totally agree with that point, sure look what we've managed to do with marshy pitches and a few pennies.

I agree too, but only to a point. Roscommon are getting better underage results than the vast majority of counties but all the resourcefulness and intelligence in the world won't compete in the long run with an organisation that is being run with the same professionalism as a provincial rugby team. You only need to look at this year's All-Ireland U21 final for evidence of that, one of the best teams you've ever sent out couldn't compete.

To be fair we led them with around 12 minutes to go in the 2012 final and that was probably a more limited one that we had in 2014. Of all the games that one doesn't tell much about Dublin's money or lack of it. Sure the same Dublin team should have been beaten by Cavan a few weeks earlier. We weren't set up right that day and gave ourselves no chance of winning it. It certainly wasn't a performance that was indicative of what that team did against other talented teams the whole rest of the season.

Dublin are beatable at underage, it's senior where the chasm is starting to grow to an alarming level.

Population and money had nothing to do with it.

Well you would say that.

[easytiger95]

My god lads, the amount of guff talked about Dublin is unreal. I've been on the board since 2002 and I dreamed of the day that i wouldn't have to defend us from accusations of

a. bottling
b. failing to make the most of our resources
c. losing the battle to other sports and being a county where the GAA was a minority, ghettoised sport.
d. being products of media hype
e. West Brit gym bunnys, not fior gaels.

So, what do we do? After years of humiliation (and for anyone there to witness 99, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009 and half of 2010 that's what it was) we assemble our shit and get it together, answering convincingly, all the above. And now what? We're obviously

a. a machine (or whatever other metaphor you'd like to use to imply some kind of artificial aspect)
b. money grabbers who've bought all our titles
c. a corporate behemoth whose sponsorship and commerical deals will swamp all others.
d. the killers of Leinster football.

I'll go through the above quickly because there is a bigger, simpler answer to all of it.

a. We're a machine because beginning with the Tommy Lyons era, but continued by Pillar and Gilroy, all the players were doing personalized weight training programmes. It was often remarked in the mid to late 00's how physically we were five years down the road from Leinster teams. Well they still haven't caught up but it is not liek this was a big secret. I believe it was Kevin heffernan who said he'd take a good big fella over a good small fella any day of the week. That was 40 years ago.

b. the money argument i've had with Don't Matter so many times I'm not going to repeat it. Suffice to say, i believe that accusations of us buying success are mistaken (malicious at times), i also believe that success breeds success.

c. We always had the biggest sponsorship deal - the Arnotts one, whilst it looks like peanuts now, was still bigger than most around and we won one All Ireland in the 25 year history of it. Other counties have always had money making machines (I'm thinking supporters clubs in counties like Kildare, I'm thinking of the Kepak association with Meath etc) especially when you compare playing populations. Success breeds success, and if you're winning Leinsters and All Irelands blue chip sponsors will want to be involved always. How many washing machines did Bendix think they were going to sell in Kerry?

d. I don;t think many of the knowledgeable posters from Meath or Kildare would argue that their county boards did not make the most of the legacies of the Boylan and O'Dwyer eras respectively.  Especially Meath, because of Boylan's ability to do a 96, they thought they could always do it. How many times during the 00's did we have to hear how the low standard of Leinster was preventing us from winning All Irelands and we couldn't win against opposition from outside Leinster? There wasn't any talk about our home advantage at Croker then. It is not our job to improve football standards in other counties. They have taken their own eyes off the ball, in Meath, Kildare and Offaly etc - that had happened a long time before 2011.

If you want to know why we are successful at the moment, look well at that table posted above. I know Brian Meade only came on as a sub, but even if he had played for the 70. he'd still have lost out to MDMA - because we're not playing the same game as Meath are. Michael Dara is not a traditional midfielder, and if you told him to go and stand against Brian Meade and Shane o'Rourke in between the 45s and win dropping ball, he'd be eaten. But we happen to have the best goalkeeper I've ever seen, and his accuracy makes sure that we're not putting MDMA in that position. And because we didn't select him to be a high fielder, his natural athleticism makes him formidable defensively.

We have a philosophy of attacking football which on the senior level, is still relatively new - remember Gilroy was criticised in 2010/11 for his defensive system and tactic of relying on Berno to score everything. But Gavin has been through the youth system at minor and u-21 and he is bring that attacking philosophy into the senior level. Where we maybe differ from others is that we now have all levels playing the same way, which will feed into the senior levels as we go.

Every successful team has a philosophy - Meath had it under Boylan, Kerry under Paidi and Jack O'Connor, Tyrone under Mickey Harte. And no matter how successful it is, it always ends - because it is so difficult to forge and continue indefinitely. Dublin haven't won the same amount as those teams mentioned above, and could well be beaten this year. But we have a philosophy and the determination to implement it. That is free and available to every county. Stop the cribbing lads - do what we did when we went to see how Tyrone did it - and they weren't millionaires.

Ambition is free - so is defeatism.

[Zulu]

I have no hesitation in saying I love watching this Dublin team, football is my game and Dublin are playing it to a standard that is breathtaking which I think most people truly appreciate. I feel some Dublin supporters (not necessarily you ET95) are being a bit paranoid and are taking any criticism a bit too much to heart. All successful teams get criticism, Kilkenny get slated on hurling forums, Man U were widely disliked over the past 15 years or so and the English rugby team are nobodies idea of a second favourite team. I genuinely believe that while many like to wind up the Dubs, everybody loves to watch them play and have few if any problems with the players or management, who are a credit to the GAA. If I were a Dub I'd be loving every minute of the season and what's happening in Dublin GAA. You're doing lots of things right, you're making headway in some non traditional areas and you are producing some of the best footballers of their generation and probably of all time. Lap it up and laugh off the wilder accusations being thrown at you.

I want to see all counties maximising their potential and Dublin are striving to do that. I don't want to see them limited in anyway, I want to see others maximise their potential and the GAA to help them do so if necessary. Competitiveness is brilliant but we want to see great teams clash, not mediocre ones. I fully believe counties like Kildare, Tyrone, Mayo, Meath, Kerry and few more have more than enough about them to compete with Dublin but they might need a bit more financial assistance from CP and maybe a bit more ambition and imagination.

[Dinny Breen]

After years of humiliation (and for anyone there to witness 99, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009 and half of 2010 that's what it was)

That is some serious revisionism there, humiliation really? In those years Dublin won 3 Leinsters, reached 2 AI Semi-finals and were knocked by the eventual winners on 5 occasions. The only game qualifies that for humiliation is Kerry in 2009.  Jesus if that's humiliation, I'd hate to what you make of a county like Carlow.

[Syferus]

After years of humiliation (and for anyone there to witness 99, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009 and half of 2010 that's what it was)

That is some serious revisionism there, humiliation really? In those years Dublin won 3 Leinsters, reached 2 AI Semi-finals and were knocked by the eventual winners on 5 occasions. The only game qualifies that for humiliation is Kerry in 2009.  Jesus if that's humiliation, I'd hate to what you make of a county like Carlow.

Or Meath.

[easytiger95]

Dinny, as you well know, expectations are different in Dublin than they are in Carlow - which is the core of my argument. We are currently fulfilling the expectations that people inside the county had, and people outside the county used to use as a stick to beat us with. Now, the fact that we are doing it, is being used against us.

As for humiliations in the years that I mentioned

In 99, Ollie Murphy eviscerated us in Leinster, always remember Peadar Andrews being tortured by him at corner back, and Tommy Carr doing nothing to move him.

In 2003, we were beaten in Leinster by Laois and dumped out of the qualifiers by Armagh after Cluxton got himself sent off.

In 2004, we were beaten in Leinster by Westmeath, and beaten by Kerry in an AI quarter final, which they won pulling up.

In 2006, we blew a six point lead with 20 minutes to go to Mayo, who went to get absolutely hammered by Kerry in the final.

In 2008, we were destroyed in the rain by a Tyrone side. in an All Ireland quarter, that had been completely written off beforehand - we were odds on favs that day and ended up looking like mugs.

In 2009 - startled cockroaches.

In 2010 - conceded 5 goals to Meath in Leinster ( as I mentioned in my original post, it was only the first half of the year - we redeemed ourselves by beating Tyrone and running Cork so close)

Humiliating? I feel like I need a therapy session after writing that.

[muppet]

'startled cockroaches' was actually startled earwigs iirc, but yours is better. 

[easytiger95]

You see? I've tried to blank it out already - next year it will be disgruntled woodlice, two years time neurotic beetles, and in three years time it will be ecstatic caterpillars.

By 2020 we'll have won the game. And the "Disgruntled Woodlice" will be headlining Electric Picnic.

[Farrandeelin]

Good job you're not a Mayo fan then easytiger!

[Wildweasel74]

lads they are a very good team, before they are done they be a great one, i like the way they play, i will always back a Ulster team but i know if they play Donegal this year, who i be backing, i cant have their style of play at all , its supposed to be a spector sport and that crap dished out in Ulster this year been shocking.

[easytiger95]

In so many ways, Farrandeelin!!

To be fair, if we don't win it, I wouldn't begrudge Mayo at all, they have a good style about them and considering how tight our games have been over the past two years in champo and league, there is not much between them.

I guarantee that Dublin will not be sticking 16 points on anybody from here on out.

[Jinxy]

They could end up playing Kildare yet.

[macdanger2]

I don't think Dublin will win it this year, this notion of invincibility could easily seep into the players heads and a team like Monaghan / Donegal / Mayo / Kerry will catch them on the hop