Donegal v Down Ulster Semi June 23

[J70]

There is so much shite, both laudatory and derogatory, written about Donegal. We were never invincible and we are not suddenly "found out" either. Like all the top teams, if our main men are fit and playing well, we will be well in with a shout of an Ulster title and All Ireland. FFS we scraped through a tight Ulster match, missing one of our greatest ever players and playmaker, as well as several other influential players. Against another Div 1 team. We weren't hockeyed by A Div 3 team. Two months ago we were being written off after the league. Tyrone went in widely tipped to beat us. There is far too much knee jerk analysis. Thank Christ McGuinness and the players can put things in perspective.

[screenexile]

There is so much shite, both laudatory and derogatory, written about Donegal. We were never invincible and we are not suddenly "found out" either. Like all the top teams, if our main men are fit and playing well, we will be well in with a shout of an Ulster title and All Ireland. FFS we scraped through a tight Ulster match, missing one of our greatest ever players and playmaker, as well as several other influential players. Against another Div 1 team. We weren't hockeyed by A Div 3 team. Two months ago we were being written off after the league. Tyrone went in widely tipped to beat us. There is far too much knee jerk analysis. Thank Christ McGuinness and the players can put things in perspective.

I don't think Donegal are invincible but you can't deny that Jimmy McGuinness has created a mythology about his training, psychology and the way he goes about his business. Also Brolly harping on about the fact "I can't see Donegal being beaten" has created an air of invincibility too.

The way they waltzed through the All Ireland last year and swatted Tyrone away with relative ease helped to build that air of invincibility but the game against Down made Donegal look like humans after all and it looks like a better team than Down could take the blueprint and beat them this year.

2 Years ago I think Dublin caught Donegal early in their development which is how they scraped through, this years Dublin team are another step above 2 years ago. They've lost the gym monkeys in favour of fast lads who can play football and they're playing great stuff which will take some stopping.

I always thought it would be a great achievement for McGuinness to do the 2 in a row but given the Down performance I think it'll be a miracle that will mark him as one of the greatest managers ever if he pulls it off this year!

[Sea The Stars]

Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense 

It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.

Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.

[J70]

The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.

On the other hand, Down were lucky not to have played the last hour of the game with 14 men, while one or two of Coulter's frees looked marginal to my (admittedly biased) eyes.

[Jinxy]

Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense 

It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.

Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.

Big difference between a gym monkey and a lad on a proper S & C programme.
Dublin are like a team of 200/400m runners now.
They don't have that over-developed upper body you see on players in some counties.
You don't run around a pitch on your hands.

[J70]

There is so much shite, both laudatory and derogatory, written about Donegal. We were never invincible and we are not suddenly "found out" either. Like all the top teams, if our main men are fit and playing well, we will be well in with a shout of an Ulster title and All Ireland. FFS we scraped through a tight Ulster match, missing one of our greatest ever players and playmaker, as well as several other influential players. Against another Div 1 team. We weren't hockeyed by A Div 3 team. Two months ago we were being written off after the league. Tyrone went in widely tipped to beat us. There is far too much knee jerk analysis. Thank Christ McGuinness and the players can put things in perspective.

I don't think Donegal are invincible but you can't deny that Jimmy McGuinness has created a mythology about his training, psychology and the way he goes about his business. Also Brolly harping on about the fact "I can't see Donegal being beaten" has created an air of invincibility too.

The way they waltzed through the All Ireland last year and swatted Tyrone away with relative ease helped to build that air of invincibility but the game against Down made Donegal look like humans after all and it looks like a better team than Down could take the blueprint and beat them this year.

2 Years ago I think Dublin caught Donegal early in their development which is how they scraped through, this years Dublin team are another step above 2 years ago. They've lost the gym monkeys in favour of fast lads who can play football and they're playing great stuff which will take some stopping.

I always thought it would be a great achievement for McGuinness to do the 2 in a row but given the Down performance I think it'll be a miracle that will mark him as one of the greatest managers ever if he pulls it off this year!

How did Jim "create" the myth? What has he said or done? If a myth exists, its because of results and media hype.

As for the rest, you're also being a bit knee jerk in declaring that Down have exposed the real, "human" Donegal. Down, a big, physical team, still lost and still only scored nine points. Sure, Dublin might well beat us, but no one has argued otherwise (to my knowledge) all year, especially amidst all the hype about THEM. If there was a feeling abroad that Donegal were going to coast through Ulster and on to another AI final appearance, it was media-fueled hype, same as the popular dismissal of our chances in the spring. Neither were positions shared by myself or any other serious supporter I know.

[screenexile]

Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense 

It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.

Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.

I totally agree with that and spoke about it at great length at the time that I think Dublin had a lot of lads in their team who were big and fit but not necessarily good footballers. That trend has reversed now!

Maybe you're right about point one but in modern football I would consider it a miracle for a team to retain their All Ireland title seeing as it's only been achieved once in the last 23 years!

[BluestackBoy]

Good post J70 - nice to know somebody out there can keep everything in context. I don't think Screenexile read your post though! It'll be a miracle alright if the reigning champions win their title again....yes that makes a lot of sense 

It was a remarkable effort by Down I thought. There weren't many flaws in what we saw from Donegal. People are way too hasty writing them off. Also Down deserve more credit. Everything about them was spot on, perfectly prepared and stuck with it the whole throughout the game.

Also two other things in response to the above post:
1. Jim McGuinness hasn't created a myth about Donegal. You have and the media have.
2. It always amaze me how many people don't realize the relationship between gym work and Gaelic Football. Strong men make good Gaelic Footballers, weak ones don't. I don't like this idea that "gym monkeys" aren't good footballers and that good footballers don't have to bother with strength and conditioning.

I totally agree with that and spoke about it at great length at the time that I think Dublin had a lot of lads in their team who were big and fit but not necessarily good footballers. That trend has reversed now!

Maybe you're right about point one but in modern football I would consider it a miracle for a team to retain their All Ireland title seeing as it's only been achieved once in the last 23 years!

Ah yes but none of those teams had the mythical godlike figure of JMcG  managing them

[J OGorman]

The referee made decisions that gave Doengal opportunities they should not have had. In the first half twice Down were denied blatant frees which (after the player was fouled) resulted in Donegal points. On an other occasion he gave Murphy a phantom free when no foul had occurred. Considering Donegal only scored 6 in the whole half this means 50% of their scores were gifted to them from the referee.

Having said that it, there was plenty of time for Down to score, they gained enough possession and created enough opportunities. We lost because of our own errors in both shot selection and shooting itself. We did not lose directly because of the referee, the largest portion of the reasons for us losing lie with ourselves, but he certainly had an influence in our defeat.

That is all in the past now, the big question is where do we go from here. Sunday was our highest level of fitness and commitment. Can we push on and improve yet further? I see no reason why not, after all there are players to come back and the more the boys practice the new system the better they should get. By Sunday's standard, Down are easily worth a quarter final place. With an improvement we could be a top 4-5 side.

Or was it our peak? I hope not!!

Id agree with alot of this. Feard a bit for Down after beating Derry in an open game. But theyve showed they can adapt. Whats the craic with these refs, yet another shorter than my wife. Another ref, Down could have pipped this one. Can take a huge amount from the match....could be a long summer for the Down men

[Fuzzman]

As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1

Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.

[Applesisapples]

Like the two Brians did with Armagh in the late '90's, Jim McGuinness has found a footballing philosophy that suits the talent at his disposal. He plays a system and uses tactics that get results. Are they invincible, well no, but they have created a self belief and an edge that gives them a couple of points advantage in the minds of opponents and in tight games as with Sunday it makes the difference. I was disappointed that Tyrone did not give more of a challenge and surprised that Down did what they did. It isn't pretty to watch at times, but as I said before I'd rather Armagh won ugly as opposed t getting drubbed by Cavan. The other advantage that Donegal have is the way they tackle...the half foul I called it, it will be interesting to see what difference the advantage rule will make. Bizarrely I still believe the only teams that can stop Donegal this year are Tyrone or maybe just maybe Kerry as in my opinion they have slightly better footballers and in Kerry's case an innate belief in their entitlement to win. But if Donegal do go on to lift Sam, fair play they will have earned it and winning is what matters.

[screenexile]

As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1

Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.

Jesus can they not get this lad on The Sunday Game? He'd be a great foil for Brolly I think and wouldn't take any of his shit! Very insightful, relevant article with the appropriate thought gone into it rather than the drivel Spillane trots out or Brolly's Donegal love in!

I saw his Gaelic Life article last week talking about Vince Lombardi and I think he's mentioned that particular analogy a few times in his articles about McGuinness!

[Fuzzman]

I am surprised you think Tyrone still have what it takes to defeat Donegal as we've come up short now three times in a row.
This year especially we had near enough our full squad fit & hungry for them but we just ran out of ideas and couldn't get the ball into scoring positions.
We don't have enough talented & strong enough forwards to battle it out under such intense circumstances. We tried Big Sean & Stevie in the FF line but again we couldn't get them on the ball enough. I think we still are a bit slow at moving the ball fast and play into Donegal's trap of playing counter attacking football.

Donegal are masters at getting 12/13 men behind the middle third and letting you push into their half. As your midfielders and often half backs push forward to support the attack, they leave massive space behind them. Donegal make this happen on purpose so then they let you pass laterally back and forth waiting for an opening that often never comes. Instead someone gets a hand in and strips the ball from you.
Suddenly the moment of realisation that the pants are truly around your ankles and your caught out of position.

Before you know it the mass blanket defence you've been staring at, has passed you out accelerating up the field into the space you've left them. As per the second goal v Tyrone, they can hit a pass then into McFadden or McBrearty who has space to create a much easier scoring chance and maybe even a goal.

I think Down didn't fall for this trap as much as we and many others have done in the past. They kept a lot of bodies back at all times and made it very hard for Donegal to find room to get easy scores. That's why so many scores were from frees.

[Aristo 60]

As ever an excellent article from Dara ó Sé.
You'd nearly wonder is his first line aimed at Pat Spillane.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/three-minutes-of-play-between-down-and-donegal-sum-up-the-demands-of-the-game-1.1442714?page=1

Very interesting line where he said he used to get cross with himself for being blocked down and losing possession. Now it's almost expected and ye just move onto the next turn over.

Jesus can they not get this lad on The Sunday Game? He'd be a great foil for Brolly I think and wouldn't take any of his shit! Very insightful, relevant article with the appropriate thought gone into it rather than the drivel Spillane trots out or Brolly's Donegal love in!

I saw his Gaelic Life article last week talking about Vince Lombardi and I think he's mentioned that particular analogy a few times in his articles about McGuinness!

I'd agree but we have to acknowledge that this guy has had about three days to get his thoughts down on paper. Most of Spillane's stuff is pure knee jerk.

[drici]

All the Club Championship games moved to this Saturday night now.
The two teams who go through to the Quarter Finals will be decided in Groups 1, 2 and 4 with Group 3 being one game behind following Gaoth Dobhair's successful turas to An Rinn to defend their All Ireland Title.
(Hopefully the Minor Championships will be also run off in better time this year)