Westmeath Vs Dublin - Croke Park

[Jinxy]

I understand and accept the logic of the back door/qualifier system and the benefit of more games, etc., and it's all logical and sensible. But there's still something wrong when a championship game effectively means nothing and both teams are still in the championship when it's over and nothing really is different as a result of the match. It impacts for me most of all when Meath play Dublin. It doesn't matter anymore who wins. There's something fundamental wrong with that and with the loss of the blood and thunder, all or nothing quality that these matches used to have. Gone forever.

If we had a decent team it'd matter Hardy.
Unfortunately they are 10 points+ a better team than us in recent years which means they play in 3rd gear and our lads play like they don't think they can win it anyway.
Back in 2005 and 2007 we had hugely competitive Meath v Dublin games, but we had the likes of GG, Fayser, Moyles and Crawford and what seemed to be a promising bunch of youngsters (Bray, Byrne, Farrell, Ward, Joe etc.).
We had the odd good day since but that was more by accident than design.

Maybe it was better pre QFs when if you had a bad team you'd get it over with in one match.

It's all relative though.
Are Westmeath a 'bad' team because Dublin hammered them?
Dublin would hammer most teams.
Westmeath could win their next game and get a run going in the qualifiers.
If you're a Westmeath fan, that gives you games to look forward to at the height of summer.
Ultimately I think that's much better than having to lick your wounds for another year, depressed about the beating you've just received at the hands of the probable All-Ireland champions.

[Zulu]

Link the league and championship, get rid of the provincial championships and hey presto we have a sensible, structured, fair season.

[Jinxy]

Ok so we're all sick of these one sided games but we don't want to send teams into weaker competitions meaning we wont see any shocks in the championship. Some would like an open draw for championship but we don't want to lose the provincial championship. We want to go back to old fashioned knock out competition but we also want teams to get extra games.
Bit of a conundrum. How do we keep everyone happy? Well I'm just milling around for a few hours till the matches start later so I will come up with the perfect solution right now! That's right I will come up with a solution that makes everyone happy. Dont matter to save the day. I will make a new thread about it. If I can't come up with a solution I wont make a new thread and this post will be deleted post haste.

Remember when everyone was going mad about the system being unfair on the provincial champions?
People would want to settle down.
Every year there's some new panic.
In a few weeks time, we'll have had plenty of competitive games, teams like Westmeath will be progressing through the qualifiers and nobody will even remember the first round games.

[BluestackBoy]

Fact is that the gap between the top teams & the rest is now so wide that the championship proper won't start until the quarter finals.
It's been like this for years in hurling & football is now going the same way. Sad but that's the way it is.

[Sidney]

Ok so we're all sick of these one sided games but we don't want to send teams into weaker competitions meaning we wont see any shocks in the championship. Some would like an open draw for championship but we don't want to lose the provincial championship. We want to go back to old fashioned knock out competition but we also want teams to get extra games.
Bit of a conundrum. How do we keep everyone happy?

You can't keep everybody happy and that's both the beauty and the failure of the GAA system.

Some people say you could have a league system which abolished the Division 1-4 groupings and gives weaker counties more games against stronger teams but that's been tried before and lots of people didn't like it. But if you stick with the current league system the gap between the strong and the weak will probably continue to widen.

Some people in Ulster will complain about the easy run to the quarter-finals that Kerry and Cork have but most people in Ulster don't want the Ulster Championship scrapped.

Some people say that having an open draw will give weaker counties a better chance to compete but other people will say that will mean weaker counties will have no possibility of ever winning any silverware and discourage them.

Some people want a Champions League-style championship structure but other people say that will damage the club game. Some people want to return to straight knock out but other people will say "what's the point of training for six months and only getting to play one game?"

Some people want a divisional championship where only eight teams compete for the Sam Maguire but others would say that will be the death of inter-county football.

Some people want less TV matches saying that they damage attendances at club matches but other people say that you need as many live TV matches as possible to maximise media exposure.

Some people think that counties should merge to enable them to compete better but other people would rather die than see their county team disappear.

Some people think that negative tactics are killing Gaelic football but others think it's great to see new thinking in terms of tactical preparation and systems of play.

Some people think Dublin should be split into two to stop their dominance in Leinster but others think that would be a total disaster.

Some people think it's great that so much money is being pumped into developing the GAA in Dublin but others moan that they can't compete with them as a result.

Some people say matches like last night's shouldn't be played in Croke Park but if they were played at provincial venues others will complain about their county never getting to play there.

Some people think that players should be paid because of all the effort they put in but others think that would be the death of the GAA as we know it.

Repeat for any number of other issues.

[illdecide]

folks was b brogan on the field of play when the goal was scored?

[Sidney]

Fact is that the gap between the top teams & the rest is now so wide that the championship proper won't start until the quarter finals.
It's been like this for years in hurling & football is now going the same way. Sad but that's the way it is.

But yet Wexford, Fermanagh and Sligo have all genuinely competed at the business end of the All-Ireland championship in recent years. Westmeath won a Leinster title for the first time ever. Laois won one for the first time in countless decades. Limerick reached the quarter-finals in 2011. Wicklow had a good run a few years ago and beat Down who came out of nowhere to thrash Kerry and almost win the All-Ireland the following year. Donegal and Mayo were both humiliated in 2010 but yet within two years they were contesting the All-Ireland final.

Gaelic Football is not such a skilful game that good coaching and preparation can't enable teams to compete. There are plenty of counties out there that have talent but for whatever reason are not competing properly. 

[Declan]

Disappointing last night. Really thought Westmeath would put up a better show and it could have been a lot worse if Connolly had his shooting boots on for the goal chances. Serious pace and hard work from Dublin but still quite open defensively.
The qualifiers has taken the bite out of matches without a doubt but Kildare are due a big game against the Dubs so it'll be interesting to see how it pans out in the semi. 
   

[Zulu]

Gaelic Football is not such a skilful game that good coaching and preparation can't enable teams to compete. There are plenty of counties out there that have talent but for whatever reason are not competing properly.

That's simply incorrect. Football is like every other game in the world, preparation and tactics can help teams but skills ultimately dictate who wins titles. Dublin are where they are largely because they are producing skilful footballers, Donegal's 'system' wouldn't work without the few exceptional player they have. Football is a hugely challenging and skillful game.

[Shamrock Shore]

Westmeath were so bad last night it was shocking but I wouldn't use this as a barometer to dis the qualifiers.

In Longford we have few good days in the Leinster (hey in the last 32 years we have only beaten 'top' teams twice, Meath in 1981 and Laois last year and neither are/were much use at the time inanyways) but in the Qualifiers we've had marvellous wins (Derry, Mayo etc) and marvellous occasions (the trip to Killarney for one).

The problem is the provincial championships format itself. But these will never be changed as no one county in Leinster would vote to scrap this as the drip down from the Dubs filling/almost filling Croke Park once or twice a year is significant to smaller counties like Longford.

However it may come to pass that in a Leinster final where Dubs are going for 400 in a row we may see a barren Hill16 as Dubs decide to forget going to these games and hold off until the AI semi final! Then there may be a different story.

[Zulu]

The problem is the provincial championships format itself. But these will never be changed as no one county in Leinster would vote to scrap this as the drip down from the Dubs filling/almost filling Croke Park once or twice a year is significant to smaller counties like Longford.

A good point but I think other formats can still ensure all counties benefit financially.

[Shamrock Shore]

But Zulu county board are inherently selfish and why would Carlow, Longford, Wexford vote to split the Dub golden goose 32 ways when it currently is split over 12?

I'd love to see a proposal to Congress where all monies from Championship games goes into central funds. This would be the first step to correcting the imbalance in the current format.

How many titles would Kerry have if they had more to do than almost get a bye to the finals in the black and white days?

[Zulu]

But if you linked league and championship you'd have far more games with big crowds, more TV money, more sponsorship money, a shorter season (saving money) so all counties should be able to get more from a bigger pot.

[Sidney]

Gaelic Football is not such a skilful game that good coaching and preparation can't enable teams to compete. There are plenty of counties out there that have talent but for whatever reason are not competing properly.

That's simply incorrect. Football is like every other game in the world, preparation and tactics can help teams but skills ultimately dictate who wins titles. Dublin are where they are largely because they are producing skilful footballers, Donegal's 'system' wouldn't work without the few exceptional player they have. Football is a hugely challenging and skillful game.

Were Wexford, Sligo and Fermanagh even in the top 10-15 most skilful teams in the country when they were challenging at the business end of the championship?

Talent and skills-wise, I'm not sure I'd have Donegal in the top five in the country. Don't forget that this largely the same panel of players who were annihilated by Armagh in 2010. But their coaching, tactics and preparation have enabled them to develop their talent and skills a level far above that of other counties.

I didn't suggest that weaker counties should be winning All-Irelands by the way, just that the perceived unbridgeable gap between the strong and the rest can be at least significantly narrowed.

You mention other games. Were Greece the most skilful team in Europe in 2004? Were Liverpool in 2005?

[Jinxy]

It's entirely possible that the current championship system is the least worst option.
Don't forget, no intercounty player plays for one team and one team alone, which in itself introduces a myriad of fixture issues.