68 years ago today...

[AZOffaly]

30th April 1945, in Berlin, Austria's most infamous sons and one of the most despicable characters in the history of mankind shuffled off this mortal coil by shooting himself, or did he? I've never understood why he instructed his henchmen to burn the bodies of himself and Eva Braun afterwards but I suppose he didn't want photos ending up in the Western, or worse Soviet, newspapers. The burning allowed the conspiracy theories to flourish, with Argentina and Brazil being popularly cited destinations. One thing is for sure though, he disappeared from the war from this day and it really signalled the end of the "Thousand Year Reich".

His rise to power is an amazing study in happenstance, opportunism and coincidence. From a lazy but somewhat talented artist living in an appartment in Vienna, refused by the Viennese art acadamy (how would it have turned out if he had been accepted?!), living as a bum for a while, eating and sleeping in men's shelters. Moving to Berlin, finding his gift of oratory and a topic which he could rant about (Communists and Jews). The depression and 'austerity' of the post WWI treaty followed by the worldwide crash of the late 20s gave him a platform, and he finagled his way into power with his firebrand preaching and his ability to hone in on what people blamed and feared. Give Germany back it's pride and it's power. Get rid of the Communists, remove power from the Jews. Music to the ears of the downtrodden Germans at the time.

The War is of course well documented, but it's scary to think that if Hitler had not made some daft decisions, or let his hatred of the Soviets blind him, he could well have established a huge Nazi Empire throughout most of western Europe and a good bit of Africa. Britain put up heroic resistance, and of course the Americans gave extra impetous which turned the tide on the Western Front, but if Hitler hadn't been occupied by his disastrous second front with Stalin it would have been very difficult for the Allies to breach a reinforced western wall of defences.

Anyway, as it transpired, the war ended in Europe on May 8th 1945 with Germany's surrender, but to all intents and purposes it ended today, 30th April 1945.

[southdown]

Mad to think what would have happened had the Brits not put up such a good fight.

[orangeman]

Mad to think what would have happened had the Brits not put up such a good fight.

Or got bailed out by the Yankees.

[AZOffaly]

Or if Hitler had decided he could let the Soviets alone for 10 years.

[brokencrossbar1]

Nothing to do with the Yanks or the Brits, the war was lost in the East in the Battle with the Ruskies.  He shouldn't have poked that big Bear!

[rossie mad]

Great opening post.

Hitler's real problem was indeed the soviet union and most particulary stalin.
I often wonder was there a certain element of awe and wwonder on hitlers part of the stalin regime which turned into jealousy and hatred.
If certain things had happened diffrently in hitlers younger life would we have still seen the monster?
I believe so as even from an early age hitler was socially inempt and at times very strange even to his own small inner circle.
He had great confidence in himself even though he was average at best acamdemically.
He believed he was a brillant artist which simply was not the case and it actually hurt him more than anything being turned away from the university of vienna even though he was living the dream of an artists life sitting in up market vienna cafes drawing sketches and mixing with the elite until his money ran out.

I believe that some hatred was always in this lad from an early age and that certain elements over the course of his young life did indeed shape what he was to become but i believe if things were different this lad would have been evil anyway whatever walk of life he chose.

[Arthur_Friend]

Hitler found out it was simply unacceptable to try to colonise other white people. Just not Cricket.

[AZOffaly]

Great opening post.

Hitler's real problem was indeed the soviet union and most particulary stalin.
I often wonder was there a certain element of awe and wwonder on hitlers part of the stalin regime which turned into jealousy and hatred.
If certain things had happened diffrently in hitlers younger life would we have still seen the monster?
I believe so as even from an early age hitler was socially inempt and at times very strange even to his own small inner circle.
He had great confidence in himself even though he was average at best acamdemically.
He believed he was a brillant artist which simply was not the case and it actually hurt him more than anything being turned away from the university of vienna even though he was living the dream of an artists life sitting in up market vienna cafes drawing sketches and mixing with the elite until his money ran out.

I believe that some hatred was always in this lad from an early age and that certain elements over the course of his young life did indeed shape what he was to become but i believe if things were different this lad would have been evil anyway whatever walk of life he chose.

Probably, but he may have just been an evil artist instead of the architect of devestation on a huge scale. He was certainly limited as an artist, but in fairness when his mother's money ran out, he did sell paintings to stay alive, and apparently sold quite a few.

[rrhf]

I heard his style compared to a certain NI firebrand recently.  Lest we forget.   

[thejuice]

There is a brilliant 24 part documentary called "Cold War" on youtube. It covers this period but comes from the perspective of the relationship between Russia and Western Europe.

It also documents what happened afterwards which the western powers, too exhausted, capitulated to Uncle Joe who even at the start of hostilities was looking for guarantees to secure German lands in soviet hands post victory.

Even after WWI the western powers had a greater loathing for the Bolsheviks than the Germans.  This is really the big story of the last century. Look at the Spanish civil war and the pernicious influences on the Communists on the Republican side.

The another often overlooked big historic influence to both WW's would be the Napoleonic wars which had a long lasting psychological effect on German people and their attitudes to the rest of Europe.

[rossie mad]

Great opening post.

Hitler's real problem was indeed the soviet union and most particulary stalin.
I often wonder was there a certain element of awe and wwonder on hitlers part of the stalin regime which turned into jealousy and hatred.
If certain things had happened diffrently in hitlers younger life would we have still seen the monster?
I believe so as even from an early age hitler was socially inempt and at times very strange even to his own small inner circle.
He had great confidence in himself even though he was average at best acamdemically.
He believed he was a brillant artist which simply was not the case and it actually hurt him more than anything being turned away from the university of vienna even though he was living the dream of an artists life sitting in up market vienna cafes drawing sketches and mixing with the elite until his money ran out.

I believe that some hatred was always in this lad from an early age and that certain elements over the course of his young life did indeed shape what he was to become but i believe if things were different this lad would have been evil anyway whatever walk of life he chose.

Probably, but he may have just been an evil artist instead of the architect of devestation on a huge scale. He was certainly limited as an artist, but in fairness when his mother's money ran out, he did sell paintings to stay alive, and apparently sold quite a few.

True the level of devestation would have been different if he was successful as an artist rather than a dictator

[AZOffaly]

Paisley? I'd see some similarities in their style of delivery. Focus on what people are scared of, angry at, or mistrust. Wind them up with outrageous scenarios that play to those fears, bring them to a crescendo and have a constant mantra that drums into their Consciousness.

"Ulster Says No"
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer"

[AZOffaly]

Great opening post.

Hitler's real problem was indeed the soviet union and most particulary stalin.
I often wonder was there a certain element of awe and wwonder on hitlers part of the stalin regime which turned into jealousy and hatred.
If certain things had happened diffrently in hitlers younger life would we have still seen the monster?
I believe so as even from an early age hitler was socially inempt and at times very strange even to his own small inner circle.
He had great confidence in himself even though he was average at best acamdemically.
He believed he was a brillant artist which simply was not the case and it actually hurt him more than anything being turned away from the university of vienna even though he was living the dream of an artists life sitting in up market vienna cafes drawing sketches and mixing with the elite until his money ran out.

I believe that some hatred was always in this lad from an early age and that certain elements over the course of his young life did indeed shape what he was to become but i believe if things were different this lad would have been evil anyway whatever walk of life he chose.

Probably, but he may have just been an evil artist instead of the architect of devestation on a huge scale. He was certainly limited as an artist, but in fairness when his mother's money ran out, he did sell paintings to stay alive, and apparently sold quite a few.

True the level of devestation would have been different if he was successful as an artist rather than a dictator

Unless his paintings were REALLY bad

[AZOffaly]

There is a brilliant 24 part documentary called "Cold War" on youtube. It covers this period but comes from the perspective of the relationship between Russia and Western Europe.

It also documents what happened afterwards which the western powers, too exhausted, capitulated to Uncle Joe who even at the start of hostilities was looking for guarantees to secure German lands in soviet hands post victory.

Even after WWI the western powers had a greater loathing for the Bolsheviks than the Germans.  This is really the big story of the last century. Look at the Spanish civil war and the pernicious influences on the Communists on the Republican side.

The another often overlooked big historic influence to both WW's would be the Napoleonic wars which had a long lasting psychological effect on German people and their attitudes to the rest of Europe.

Absolutely. Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt were not bedfellows because of a shared view on the world. It was very much a case of "My enemy's enemy is my friend".

Just mentioning the Napoleanic wars, there. It's amazing that Hitler made a very similar error in terms of the Winter fighting. He left his army wither on the vine in the Russian Winter, just like Napolean did. Given the fact that Hitler studied Napolean, apparently, it's amazing he fell for it.

[AZOffaly]

Another aspect of this war was the appalling behaviour of the Vichy French. They, as much as anyone else, gave Hitler free reign in Western Europe by trying to quash resistance, blaming the British and collaborating  with the Nazis. If Churchill hadn't ordered the sinking of the French Fleet that lay within the reach of the Germans, the battle on the Seas might have gone a different way too.