Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[Bring back club football]

Lot of talk as usual about S&C on here.

Would the concerns here not originate at u17 and u20 level every bit as much as what is happening at senior level?

[Hand of God]

Lot of talk as usual about S&C on here.

Would the concerns here not originate at u17 and u20 level every bit as much as what is happening at senior level?

I don't think so personally. There is a huge difference in physicality at senior level compared to u20 level. So effectively players should be making great strides in terms of power, size, conditioning in the age bracket of 20-24. We are leading over the past 4 years at u20 level but they are not developing in step with other counties.

The likes of Daly, Cullen, SOD and a few others of those players who came into the squad at 19/20 etc just don't seem to have kicked on physically since they stepped up to senior football where they have been a few years there now.

You'd notice other counties where these guys are notably fitter, stronger, bigger year on year and are guys are still struggling to break tackles. I can remember Cassidy, McElholm, Cullen, Daly etc all struggling to break tackles at the weekend whereas none of the Derry players were having those problems throughout the game.

[square_ball]

Noticeable how Lachlan Murray has developed in terms of size and power since he first broke onto the Derry squad compared to now.

[tyrone08]

Lot of talk as usual about S&C on here.

Would the concerns here not originate at u17 and u20 level every bit as much as what is happening at senior level?

I don't think so personally. There is a huge difference in physicality at senior level compared to u20 level. So effectively players should be making great strides in terms of power, size, conditioning in the age bracket of 20-24. We are leading over the past 4 years at u20 level but they are not developing in step with other counties.

The likes of Daly, Cullen, SOD and a few others of those players who came into the squad at 19/20 etc just don't seem to have kicked on physically since they stepped up to senior football where they have been a few years there now.

You'd notice other counties where these guys are notably fitter, stronger, bigger year on year and are guys are still struggling to break tackles. I can remember Cassidy, McElholm, Cullen, Daly etc all struggling to break tackles at the weekend whereas none of the Derry players were having those problems throughout the game.

One thing I will say its not all about power/size in breaking a tackle, its about the willingness and desire to get through your man. If say mcelholm ran at a defender regardless of how big he was he would either get through, get stripped of the ball or get a free for being fouled. Now 2 out of those 3 cases could result in a score for us. I have no idea why players are running at full speed at the heart of the opposition defense.

Over the last 10 years or longer tyrone have failed to produce the "hard man" type player who takes no crap. Mattie Donnelly would be the only one that springs to mind. Kerry, Dublin, Armagh, Donegal etc all have lots of players who show their aggression. We seem to produce skillful pretty boys

[trueblue1234]

Lot of talk as usual about S&C on here.

Would the concerns here not originate at u17 and u20 level every bit as much as what is happening at senior level?

I don't think so personally. There is a huge difference in physicality at senior level compared to u20 level. So effectively players should be making great strides in terms of power, size, conditioning in the age bracket of 20-24. We are leading over the past 4 years at u20 level but they are not developing in step with other counties.

The likes of Daly, Cullen, SOD and a few others of those players who came into the squad at 19/20 etc just don't seem to have kicked on physically since they stepped up to senior football where they have been a few years there now.

You'd notice other counties where these guys are notably fitter, stronger, bigger year on year and are guys are still struggling to break tackles. I can remember Cassidy, McElholm, Cullen, Daly etc all struggling to break tackles at the weekend whereas none of the Derry players were having those problems throughout the game.

One thing I will say its not all about power/size in breaking a tackle, its about the willingness and desire to get through your man. If say mcelholm ran at a defender regardless of how big he was he would either get through, get stripped of the ball or get a free for being fouled. Now 2 out of those 3 cases could result in a score for us. I have no idea why players are running at full speed at the heart of the opposition defense.

Over the last 10 years or longer tyrone have failed to produce the "hard man" type player who takes no crap. Mattie Donnelly would be the only one that springs to mind. Kerry, Dublin, Armagh, Donegal etc all have lots of players who show their aggression. We seem to produce skillful pretty boys

I can only assume they are being coached not to take the ball into contact. I agree we need more players who are physically capable of carrying a ball past a player. Having all the speed of the day, to get out in front and win the ball is great. But if you're turning and then unable to get past a man on your heels to get space for a shot then we are always going to struggle for scores. Our kicking under pressure has been poor for this level.

[Goals_Will_Come]

At the end of the day, it is two league games in January. Last 20 years has seen these poor league showings and for the vast majority good summers followed. Not something to be writing seasons off like some are here.

If we line up:
1. Niall Morgan
2. Joey Clarke/Aidan Clarke/Cormac Quinn
3. Paudie Hamspey
4. Niall Devlin
5. Michael McKernan
6. Rory Brennan/Peter Teague
7. Kieran McGeary/Seanie O'Donnell
8. Brian Kennedy
9. Conn Kilpatrick
10. Ciaran Daly
11. Eoin McElholm/Ruairi Canavan
12. Conor O'Neill
13. Darren McCurry
14. Darragh Canavan
15. Mattie Donnelly/Ethan Jordan/Ruairi Canavan/Eoin McElholm

We would all be confident in beating Armagh, Donegal, Derry/Monaghan in Ulster and the same be said if we came up against Dublin, Galway, Mayo. Kerry probably the outlier but we weren't that far off last year, closer than anyone else.

[ShoresOfTyrone]

I think McGarrity has to be given a go at FF. The small men aren't working and Kennedy and Donnelly just aren't effective on the square.

After that then we are overstocked with certain players and very short on others. I think we have great competition in the full back line and full forward line but our half forward and half back lines are light.

Serious questions have to be asked about our S&C and this predates Malachys time. When Peter Donnelly was here the physical transformation for young players coming through was huge. I remember the likes of McGeary, Meyler, Rory Brennan, McShabe etc coming straight to the u21s primed and physically ready. McKernan a few years after.

I can barely recall a player stepping out of u20 level in recent years and looking at the physical level and ready made. It took Devlin up until the tail end of last year to look like he adjusted to the top level requirements at the senior intercounty. Ciaran Daly, Seanie O'Donnell, Ruairi Canavan, Ben Cullen are guys who are all the county panel for a number of years now and just don't seem to have progressed physically so big questions need to be asked about our S&C on how we are way behind sides from other counties in that regard.

Your obsession with McGarrity in FF isn't slacking anyway.

I'm nearly as passionate about it as you are in persisting with a full forward line of little men.

I actually agree with you that the forward line dynamic of too many small players with similar traits isn't working, I just don't think Lorcan is the answer, I don't think the panel in general has that type of player within it needed at this level. Would I like to see him getting a chance, yes, I have seen him more often at club level producing some real good performances but I don't think he has the level for Inter County. You would imagine if he was putting his hand up and performing well at training MOR would play him more often which he doesn't. In saying that I would have McGarrity at FF any day over Kennedy, that was a decision from management I was baffled with and I get the lack of fitness stuff going around but playing Kennedy in FF isn't going to win you many games.