Author Topic: Tyrone County Football and Hurling  (Read 2195434 times)

BennyHarp

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12675 on: November 02, 2020, 11:09:13 PM »
I donít think Damian OíHagan is a bad shout as part of a potential management team.
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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12676 on: November 02, 2020, 11:39:47 PM »
Iím not convinced by Fearghal Logan.

If heís the chosen manager then he will have my full support. He doesnít come across as someone that could fire up a team. I always thought he was a bit soft or lacked passion. Itís a weak reason not to consider him but just my 1st impression of the man.

He is obviously knowledgeable and has an underage all Ireland on the CV.

Collie Holmes / Ricey would be my management team.

not convinced by Logan either, and letís be honest that U-21 side came through a tricky ulster championship but won the AI without beating Dublin, kerry, cork, galway, mayo, kildare or  meath. Whilst they could only beat what was in front of them, and an underage title was badly needed it was like a div 2 AI (roscommon and tip) and none of the squad have beaten any of the big guns in championship (i stand to be corrected in this) from minors, and that trend has followed, however Iíd give harte 1 more shot with the hope of a fit mcshane & hampsey along with whatís there already and that team would not be far away

Tyrone Gaa

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12677 on: November 02, 2020, 11:57:25 PM »
Iím not convinced by Fearghal Logan.

If heís the chosen manager then he will have my full support. He doesnít come across as someone that could fire up a team. I always thought he was a bit soft or lacked passion. Itís a weak reason not to consider him but just my 1st impression of the man.

He is obviously knowledgeable and has an underage all Ireland on the CV.

Collie Holmes / Ricey would be my management team.

not convinced by Logan either, and letís be honest that U-21 side came through a tricky ulster championship but won the AI without beating Dublin, kerry, cork, galway, mayo, kildare or  meath. Whilst they could only beat what was in front of them, and an underage title was badly needed it was like a div 2 AI (roscommon and tip) and none of the squad have beaten any of the big guns in championship (i stand to be corrected in this) from minors, and that trend has followed, however Iíd give harte 1 more shot with the hope of a fit mcshane & hampsey along with whatís there already and that team would not be far away

Harte has used up all his chances. Time for change
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bgal10

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12678 on: November 03, 2020, 12:45:59 AM »
Honestly have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

First thing Iíd like to ask is can someone provide the evidence showing harteís huge salary being paid by Tyrone gaa? Harte is not paid a salary by Tyrone.

Secondly, for those saying he has to go, what are your expectations over the next 5 years? Is it that we actually win 1 or 2 all Irelandís or is it that youíre just fed up and want a change for change sake?

Over the next 5 years, the new manager to IMPROVE on what we have achieved over the past 5 years (excluding 2020) would have to at a MINIMUM: retain Division 1 status every year, win 3 ulster titles, reach the AI Semi Final EVERY year, get to AT LEAST 2 AI finals and WIN at least 1 AI title.

Now to be clear, Iím not saying that the above isnít achievable and who knows maybe it is the right time for a change but the way Harteís name gets dragged about on this forum is a disgrace. Reading some of the comments on here youíd think Tyroneís summers had ended in June for the past 10 years. When Harte goes it might then be appreciated how good a job he has done to keep Tyrone continually operating at the top level.

Iíve read some other managers names thrown about here as well such as McGleenan etc. Like on what basis are some of these names getting mentioned? I understand the Logan and Canavan shouts as they have done it with the U21s and know a lot of these players. Also donít mind the Malachy Oírourke shout but then again did Malachy ever get the better of Harte when it really counted? Harte came out on top in both 2015 and 2018 when it really really counted.

As Iíve said before, it might well be the time for a change but I wouldnít necessarily be banking on it resulting in a positive outcome. Also have to consider that since Tyrone last won Sam, weíve been living through a spell involving a team which has been touted as one of the best of all time resulting in only Kerry (x2) Cork (x1) and Donegal (x1) winning the big prize outside of Dublin. And to be frank about it, Iím not sure since 2008, we have had a squad of players that has been really good enough to get it done at the very very highest level.

GiveItToTheShooters

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12679 on: November 03, 2020, 01:16:15 AM »
What you also have to laugh at are the people who have bemoaned Tyrone's defensive style of play yet are the same ones mentioning Jim mcguinness as the next manager. Absolute morons of the highest order ;D ;D ;D

Redhand Santa

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12680 on: November 03, 2020, 08:10:18 AM »
Honestly have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

First thing Iíd like to ask is can someone provide the evidence showing harteís huge salary being paid by Tyrone gaa? Harte is not paid a salary by Tyrone.

Secondly, for those saying he has to go, what are your expectations over the next 5 years? Is it that we actually win 1 or 2 all Irelandís or is it that youíre just fed up and want a change for change sake?

Over the next 5 years, the new manager to IMPROVE on what we have achieved over the past 5 years (excluding 2020) would have to at a MINIMUM: retain Division 1 status every year, win 3 ulster titles, reach the AI Semi Final EVERY year, get to AT LEAST 2 AI finals and WIN at least 1 AI title.

Now to be clear, Iím not saying that the above isnít achievable and who knows maybe it is the right time for a change but the way Harteís name gets dragged about on this forum is a disgrace. Reading some of the comments on here youíd think Tyroneís summers had ended in June for the past 10 years. When Harte goes it might then be appreciated how good a job he has done to keep Tyrone continually operating at the top level.

Iíve read some other managers names thrown about here as well such as McGleenan etc. Like on what basis are some of these names getting mentioned? I understand the Logan and Canavan shouts as they have done it with the U21s and know a lot of these players. Also donít mind the Malachy Oírourke shout but then again did Malachy ever get the better of Harte when it really counted? Harte came out on top in both 2015 and 2018 when it really really counted.

As Iíve said before, it might well be the time for a change but I wouldnít necessarily be banking on it resulting in a positive outcome. Also have to consider that since Tyrone last won Sam, weíve been living through a spell involving a team which has been touted as one of the best of all time resulting in only Kerry (x2) Cork (x1) and Donegal (x1) winning the big prize outside of Dublin. And to be frank about it, Iím not sure since 2008, we have had a squad of players that has been really good enough to get it done at the very very highest level.

Agree with all this. It seems as if lots of people want change for the sake of it and it could well lead to Harte being removed and replaced by an inferior manager. It's very premiership soccer like the way a section of Tyrone people go on about Harte - you can imagine them doing a #harteout on twitter after a game.

I think Harte's biggest problem is the fact he's been there so long he's annoyed a lot of club people along the way by not picking their players (and 95% of the time he's probably made the right calls). The current flavour of the month is not picking any Dungannon men. Dungannon won the championship with a good all round team and have a few players that could well push on to the county squad over the next year or two. But I don't think there was anyone good enough that was going to walk into the county panel and make a massive difference with 6 weeks county training behind them this season.

Paudie McNulty's name gets brought up but is he really an improvement on what's there? He's a decent club player who might not be far of squad level (which he obviously doesn't want to be) but to make out he'd have made the difference in that Donegal game is a bit of a stretch. His strongest asset is running with the ball and this is  very difficult against strong physical defences at county level. I'd have said Mallon was probably a better ball winner around the middle for Dungannon than him in the big championship games.

I think next year we have potentially our strongest forward line since 08 and given Harte has kept us as a top 5 team with a weaker group of players he probably does deserve another go. You could see last year how he was flexible and change tactics with a much criticised McShane becoming one of the top forwards in the country. I'm sure with McKenna and Canavan available he'll mix it up again.

Another criticism of him on here in recent days was that he hasn't had a consistent spine of the team in recent years. I'm not sure how accurate this is. This year was different due to a number of factors including injuries and late retirements. But last year for example you knew McNamee was 3, Hampsey was 6, Colm Cavanagh in middle, Sludden at 11 and McShane at 14.

If he is to go I'm really not sure who steps in. Fergal Logan would be a massive gamble. He did along with a large management team won an u21 all ireland. Though from memory there was two very poor campaigns either side of that and he hasn't a strong record at management level other than that. Collie Holmes should be given a go at u20 level, not thrown into senior management as an experiment. He's a decent record at underage though the only All Ireland came at u17 level in the year most big counties were still focusing on u18s. He struggled with Eglish though has been involved in a great story with Dungannon - who knows how much say or what his role was there. Other than that any other internal candidate would be a huge gamble.

The only criticism of Harte I would have on Sunday was leaving Harte on ahead of McCurry. Now for all we know McCurry was carrying a knock and he had lost a few balls that went into him in the second half but on the face of it was a strange call. Other than that the team picked wasn't far away given the players available and they competed with one of the top teams in Ireland in a notoriously difficult ground to go to. It was a game lost on fine margins but you'd think on here we were beat out the gate.

Dire Ear

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12681 on: November 03, 2020, 11:05:47 AM »
MH puts the football out of footballers, makes them atheletes.
The majority of substitutions v Donegal were wrong, simple as.
Learning to tackle and mark yer man should be on a laminated sheet at Garvaghey
My dream management team; C Holmes, Stevie O'Neill, B Dooher
Canavan shouldn't manage the son

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12682 on: November 03, 2020, 11:11:48 AM »
What you also have to laugh at are the people who have bemoaned Tyrone's defensive style of play yet are the same ones mentioning Jim mcguinness as the next manager. Absolute morons of the highest order ;D ;D ;D

Donegal the year they won the AI were the best attacking team in the Country. McGuiness being defensive was a bit of a lazy one, in his first year absolutely, never after that.

Redhand Santa

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12683 on: November 03, 2020, 11:24:45 AM »
MH puts the football out of footballers, makes them atheletes.
The majority of substitutions v Donegal were wrong, simple as.
Learning to tackle and mark yer man should be on a laminated sheet at Garvaghey
My dream management team; C Holmes, Stevie O'Neill, B Dooher
Canavan shouldn't manage the son

How many players on the Dublin team (who everyone is aspiring to beat) would you say aren't athletes? You'll go nowhere in the current game without an extremely athletic team prepared to work. In recent years remember Paul Mannion tackling back and putting in great challenges v Tyrone.

You could certainly argue that Harte tries to improve the all round game of his players. 

Dire Ear

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12684 on: November 03, 2020, 12:16:04 PM »
MH puts the football out of footballers, makes them atheletes.
The majority of substitutions v Donegal were wrong, simple as.
Learning to tackle and mark yer man should be on a laminated sheet at Garvaghey
My dream management team; C Holmes, Stevie O'Neill, B Dooher
Canavan shouldn't manage the son

How many players on the Dublin team (who everyone is aspiring to beat) would you say aren't athletes? You'll go nowhere in the current game without an extremely athletic team prepared to work. In recent years remember Paul Mannion tackling back and putting in great challenges v Tyrone.

You could certainly argue that Harte tries to improve the all round game of his players.
Honestly,  the Dub set-up is as close to professionalism as yer gonna get.  We can't financially do that so we should use our natural abiltiy, imho.

Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12685 on: November 03, 2020, 12:16:30 PM »
Honestly have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

First thing Iíd like to ask is can someone provide the evidence showing harteís huge salary being paid by Tyrone gaa? Harte is not paid a salary by Tyrone.

Secondly, for those saying he has to go, what are your expectations over the next 5 years? Is it that we actually win 1 or 2 all Irelandís or is it that youíre just fed up and want a change for change sake?

Over the next 5 years, the new manager to IMPROVE on what we have achieved over the past 5 years (excluding 2020) would have to at a MINIMUM: retain Division 1 status every year, win 3 ulster titles, reach the AI Semi Final EVERY year, get to AT LEAST 2 AI finals and WIN at least 1 AI title.

Now to be clear, Iím not saying that the above isnít achievable and who knows maybe it is the right time for a change but the way Harteís name gets dragged about on this forum is a disgrace. Reading some of the comments on here youíd think Tyroneís summers had ended in June for the past 10 years. When Harte goes it might then be appreciated how good a job he has done to keep Tyrone continually operating at the top level.

Iíve read some other managers names thrown about here as well such as McGleenan etc. Like on what basis are some of these names getting mentioned? I understand the Logan and Canavan shouts as they have done it with the U21s and know a lot of these players. Also donít mind the Malachy Oírourke shout but then again did Malachy ever get the better of Harte when it really counted? Harte came out on top in both 2015 and 2018 when it really really counted.

As Iíve said before, it might well be the time for a change but I wouldnít necessarily be banking on it resulting in a positive outcome. Also have to consider that since Tyrone last won Sam, weíve been living through a spell involving a team which has been touted as one of the best of all time resulting in only Kerry (x2) Cork (x1) and Donegal (x1) winning the big prize outside of Dublin. And to be frank about it, Iím not sure since 2008, we have had a squad of players that has been really good enough to get it done at the very very highest level.

This is on the money.

I've no problem with us replacing Harte if there's a better man out there but there is no standout candidate.

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Onthe40

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12686 on: November 03, 2020, 12:26:05 PM »
Harte will get a one year extension I think, with the year that its been, a six month county break and reduced time with players etc it can be strongly argued he deserves another year.

Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12687 on: November 03, 2020, 12:28:04 PM »
Honestly have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

First thing Iíd like to ask is can someone provide the evidence showing harteís huge salary being paid by Tyrone gaa? Harte is not paid a salary by Tyrone.

Secondly, for those saying he has to go, what are your expectations over the next 5 years? Is it that we actually win 1 or 2 all Irelandís or is it that youíre just fed up and want a change for change sake?

Over the next 5 years, the new manager to IMPROVE on what we have achieved over the past 5 years (excluding 2020) would have to at a MINIMUM: retain Division 1 status every year, win 3 ulster titles, reach the AI Semi Final EVERY year, get to AT LEAST 2 AI finals and WIN at least 1 AI title.

Now to be clear, Iím not saying that the above isnít achievable and who knows maybe it is the right time for a change but the way Harteís name gets dragged about on this forum is a disgrace. Reading some of the comments on here youíd think Tyroneís summers had ended in June for the past 10 years. When Harte goes it might then be appreciated how good a job he has done to keep Tyrone continually operating at the top level.

Iíve read some other managers names thrown about here as well such as McGleenan etc. Like on what basis are some of these names getting mentioned? I understand the Logan and Canavan shouts as they have done it with the U21s and know a lot of these players. Also donít mind the Malachy Oírourke shout but then again did Malachy ever get the better of Harte when it really counted? Harte came out on top in both 2015 and 2018 when it really really counted.

As Iíve said before, it might well be the time for a change but I wouldnít necessarily be banking on it resulting in a positive outcome. Also have to consider that since Tyrone last won Sam, weíve been living through a spell involving a team which has been touted as one of the best of all time resulting in only Kerry (x2) Cork (x1) and Donegal (x1) winning the big prize outside of Dublin. And to be frank about it, Iím not sure since 2008, we have had a squad of players that has been really good enough to get it done at the very very highest level.

Agree with all this. It seems as if lots of people want change for the sake of it and it could well lead to Harte being removed and replaced by an inferior manager. It's very premiership soccer like the way a section of Tyrone people go on about Harte - you can imagine them doing a #harteout on twitter after a game.

I think Harte's biggest problem is the fact he's been there so long he's annoyed a lot of club people along the way by not picking their players (and 95% of the time he's probably made the right calls). The current flavour of the month is not picking any Dungannon men. Dungannon won the championship with a good all round team and have a few players that could well push on to the county squad over the next year or two. But I don't think there was anyone good enough that was going to walk into the county panel and make a massive difference with 6 weeks county training behind them this season.

Paudie McNulty's name gets brought up but is he really an improvement on what's there? He's a decent club player who might not be far of squad level (which he obviously doesn't want to be) but to make out he'd have made the difference in that Donegal game is a bit of a stretch. His strongest asset is running with the ball and this is  very difficult against strong physical defences at county level. I'd have said Mallon was probably a better ball winner around the middle for Dungannon than him in the big championship games.

I think next year we have potentially our strongest forward line since 08 and given Harte has kept us as a top 5 team with a weaker group of players he probably does deserve another go. You could see last year how he was flexible and change tactics with a much criticised McShane becoming one of the top forwards in the country. I'm sure with McKenna and Canavan available he'll mix it up again.

Another criticism of him on here in recent days was that he hasn't had a consistent spine of the team in recent years. I'm not sure how accurate this is. This year was different due to a number of factors including injuries and late retirements. But last year for example you knew McNamee was 3, Hampsey was 6, Colm Cavanagh in middle, Sludden at 11 and McShane at 14.

If he is to go I'm really not sure who steps in. Fergal Logan would be a massive gamble. He did along with a large management team won an u21 all ireland. Though from memory there was two very poor campaigns either side of that and he hasn't a strong record at management level other than that. Collie Holmes should be given a go at u20 level, not thrown into senior management as an experiment. He's a decent record at underage though the only All Ireland came at u17 level in the year most big counties were still focusing on u18s. He struggled with Eglish though has been involved in a great story with Dungannon - who knows how much say or what his role was there. Other than that any other internal candidate would be a huge gamble.

The only criticism of Harte I would have on Sunday was leaving Harte on ahead of McCurry. Now for all we know McCurry was carrying a knock and he had lost a few balls that went into him in the second half but on the face of it was a strange call. Other than that the team picked wasn't far away given the players available and they competed with one of the top teams in Ireland in a notoriously difficult ground to go to. It was a game lost on fine margins but you'd think on here we were beat out the gate.

It's a cop out to say you can't replace Harte now because be may be "replaced by an inferior manager". That will still be true next year, in three years or whenever Mickey decides to drive down the hill at Garvaghey into the sunset. The only difference will be that Matty and Petey will be as old or older than Canavan and Lawn when Harte took over or they'll be retired by the time someone else gets a chance. Compare where we are against Donegal since the Super 8s game in Ballybofey. They've brought in Rochford and are better coached. They've clearly developed a number of their younger players and they've beaten us twice in the championship. Are we doing anything differently? Is anyone other than McShane performing any better than they were in 2018? Burns? Meyler? McGeary? Brennan? Bradley? Hampsey? None of them have moved up like a level like Langan, Thompson, McMenamin and McGee have. We've replaced Stevie O'Neill as a coach with a man renowned for coaching defensive football and who managed a side that lost a county final 0-5 to 0-4?
If the players are enthusiastic about giving Harte another go and the county board put some kind of succession plan in place with possible replacements in the backroom team then so be it. Otherwise it's time to rip off the plaster.

The succession plan is a good point.

If we have in mind a team to take over from Harte then it should be put in place now, probably at u20 level. I think Paul Devlin did a fairly poor job with a very talented group in the last two years. We had the attacking talent to beat both Cork and Dublin there but tactically were outfoxed.

The talent in the county is there and I've no problem with Harte going, I don't really think he has underachieved the past few years, we've established ourselves as one of the top 5 teams, we haven't been that far away but maybe things are going stale and we need a new voice.

The issue is the names being thrown about are either not realistic or not in anyway appeasing.

I'd be happy to give the U21 management team from 2015 a go but I don't think Canavan would be interested and he's the big name there.

Other than that I can't see the better candidates. Our only AI title since 2015 was an U17 title which was basically a B competition that year as it was running in conjunction with a minor competition. I think we've had talent good enough to do much better at underage in recent years but have underachieved.

Very few of the 03-08 squad have done it in management yet and most seem to be suggesting a dream team of lads to come in with no managerial experience and do it.

And if one more person credibly suggests Mattie McGleenan as an improvement on Harte........
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Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12688 on: November 03, 2020, 12:46:46 PM »
The squad for next year should see a fairly comprehensive overhaul though whoever is manager. I think part of the reason I'd like to see a fresh voice in is for that purpose.

These are the players I think should be around for next year:

GK:
Morgan
Gallen

Defenders:
Brennan
McNamee
Rafferty
McCann
Hampsey
Cassidy
M O'Neill
McKernan
K McGeary
F Burns
HP McGeary
Kelly
Grimes
Quinn
Murnaghan

Midfield:
Kennedy
R Donnelly
Kilpatrick

Forwards:
M Donnelly
McKenna
McCurry
Bradley
Canavan
McShane
Meyler
Sludden


That's about 28 players so you have the potential to add 10 or so new faces in there. I think in terms of defensive talent in the country we probably have more or less the best available to us on the panel at present, possibly a few new additions if some of those guys aren't available or moved on.

In terms of midfield, we're now short, it's an area we need to improve on. I'd defintitely hop we can get McNulty back in there and I also like Nugent from Galbally and think he could be given a go during the McKenna Cup.

With the attackers, there is loads of talent not available for whatever reason this year. It's time to give new some new blood a go here, plenty of talent on the u20 squad this year. The likes of McAliskey and Brennan should be tried to commit again, Donaghy should be a certain call up and a few others too. You look at us playing guys like Meyler, McGeary and Burns as wing forwards  - they don't score enough and when you contrast with teams like Mayo, Donegal and Kerry who get big scoring returns from these areas it's something we really need to improve on but looking at the club scene - we don't really seem to have too many natural scoring half forwards do we?

Donnelly plays best when he is given a free role in the middle of the pitch and I think Harte is probably best utilised as a ball winning inside forward from now on.

Hopefully for whoever is in charge going forward, a fully fit squad will allow the likes of McKenna, Harte, Donnelly, McShane and one of Canavan/Bradley/McCurry etc to operate in that final third of the pitch. The bottom line is when you're against the big sides you are probably going to need a dog in there like Meyler or McGeary to take an opposition player out of the game - a lot of the other counties play with one but that's not to say that we don't need a much bigger return from whoever is chosen to do that job at the other end of the pitch. Meyler and McGeary really need to start contributing on the scoreboard if they are to justify their selection.
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tyroneman

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12689 on: November 03, 2020, 02:41:50 PM »
I would agree that Harte will prob ask for (and get) a 1-2 year extension to have a crack at things with McKenna, Canavan, McShane all playing together.

And if he gets that opprtunity and doesn't make progress......fair time to give someone else a chance.

The issue is not that he doesn't get results, it's that he invariably seems to come up short v Mayo/Kerry/Dublin when it matters.

So progress = beating one of them in a semi final / final