Author Topic: Tyrone County Football and Hurling  (Read 2089092 times)

Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12390 on: October 18, 2020, 10:21:22 PM »
The thing about getting rid of Harte, is there an outstanding candidate available? I don't really see anything inside the county at present that I would look as a marked improvement on Harte. I think a lot of our underage teams in recent years have underachieved and no club manager has been able to do back to backs in Tyrone to make them a viable candidate.

Canavan has that x factor but he has a nice little gig going as it is and I really don't think he'd be interested. He hasn't really managed anyone of note since Fermanagh anyway?

Would we hire an outsider? Malachy O'Rourke did a great job with Monaghan and I think he'd do well with Tyrone but I don't see him bringing the swashbuckling football some seem to think we should be playing. I couldn't see McGuinness taking the job or the Tyrone Co Board affording him but I think he could work wonders with this bunch of players.
Anything to be said for Fergal Logan and his team from the U21 All Ireland winners of 2015 of Canavan and Dooher, even adding someone like Collie Holmes as well?
Majority of that panel have been brought through (potentially could even get Brennan, McNulty, Mullan back involved) and are being backboned by the last 2 U20 teams as well as still having the last few years of Mattie, McNammee and Harte, a new voice could make a big difference to what will still be an impressive panel in 2021.

Harte has done Tyrone enormous service. I think overall he deserves credit for how he has kept Tyrone at the top table in that last decade despite not winning an AI but I think we are now back reaching a talent level that should have us pushing for an AI and things seem to have gone a little stale.

When we have a full contingent available we have a team now capable of winning an All Ireland with McKenna back.

Logan is an option but has he managed anyone since stepping away from the u21s. Would Canavan leave his Sky gig to take up a role?

Midfield is a concern but as someone said earlier, I'd rather we went with actual midfielders than moving forwards and defenders out there. Kilpatrick and Kennedy are raw and unproven but as well let them at it and see how they get on. I'd worry about R Donnelly's pace in midfield but he's a very good footballer and won't get pushed about so I think we should go with him and one of Kennedy/Kilpatrick if they are available.

Our defensive shape is a big worry, we don't seem to have any player tasked with shoring up the middle of the defence, if teams run at us we part like the red sea. We need a designated 6, some players that's going to hold that central channel and organise the defence and make sure teams can't just run through us.

I think the panel needs a bit of upheavel at this point. Too many players there who have had enough time to prove themselves like Ronan O'Neill and Conall McCann, nothing against the lads but they haven't been good enough and it's time to give new players the chance.

Should any of the u20s start next week? Would Canavan be worth a 20 minute cameo?


sidelineball

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12391 on: October 18, 2020, 11:05:36 PM »
After all the excitement of the Tyrone club championship it's back to that boring unimaginative dross. Virtually no inside forward line until MC Kenna went in. No creativity, no spark. When will it all end?

In total agreement. Utter rubbish you have forwards such as Mc curry, Mc kenna and bradley and you expect them to play in there own 45. Whose in charge horse or harte as it looked like horse was in full control in the water breaks. Relegation next week will hopefully get rid of this defensive dross that's stifling some of the best forwards in ulster. New setup needed urgently

100%
Some brilliant players who are obviously frustrated and sick of this management. Fresh start please.

southtyronegael

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12392 on: October 19, 2020, 07:39:54 AM »
Just thinking about Ronan o Neill, only a few weeks ago he received the golden boot as top scorer in Tyrone league, puts on a Tyrone jersey, comes on yesterday and misses a straightforward free.wtf?

Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12393 on: October 19, 2020, 08:12:11 AM »
Just thinking about Ronan o Neill, only a few weeks ago he received the golden boot as top scorer in Tyrone league, puts on a Tyrone jersey, comes on yesterday and misses a straightforward free.wtf?

O'Neill just isn't good enough unfortunately.

When Colm Cavanagh called it a day, we should have done all we could go get Paudie McNulty back on board.

Taylor

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12394 on: October 19, 2020, 08:18:56 AM »
Where do you start after watching that?

One massive positive was McKenna - he will be a massive addition for us if we use him correctly.

Next season himself & McShane up front with either McCurry or Bradley in the other corner. That would be ideal however given the defensive tripe we are playing I cant see that happening.

In Saturday nights game Armagh seemed to set up similar to us - plenty of offensive talent there but refuse to play those players in an advanced position. We should be miles ahead of an average Div 2 team in terms of tactical nous.

Harte has done for Tyrone what no one else has done but is there a time when we say thanks given we dont seem to be evolving? Watching other games yesterday the defensive game is not going to win you anything.

And if Harte goes then please dont say Devlin will replace him.

Frustrating as f**k.

Imagine we had asked Mugsy/ONeill/Canavan to play miles from the opposition goals

skeog

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12395 on: October 19, 2020, 09:23:07 AM »
Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12396 on: October 19, 2020, 09:40:43 AM »
Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.


Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12397 on: October 19, 2020, 09:51:49 AM »
Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Taylor

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12398 on: October 19, 2020, 09:56:24 AM »
C Cavanagh was a huge miss in the heart of the defence

square_ball

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12399 on: October 19, 2020, 09:58:05 AM »
Hard to disagree with anything said above. McKenna and McCurry were the only bright sparks in my opinion. The 2 goals were shocking - a dummy took 3 men out and a simple handpass bypassed 5 men.

Tyrone do have a tendency to pull a performance out the following week after a poor performance but I just donít know. I wouldnít be surprised if they beat mayo and Donegal but Iím not optimistic.

How stupid was Rory Brennan by the way? Thatís him gone for 12 weeks pending an undoubted appeal.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12400 on: October 19, 2020, 10:13:43 AM »
Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

bigpackiechestout

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12401 on: October 19, 2020, 10:31:40 AM »
Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

Were players not currently on the panel asked in for in house games? Any names?

Rory Brennan will be a huge loss if he's out for remainder of the year. He's one of our go to man markers for the oppositions more physical forward and rarely lets us down. Thought he did a decent job on Murphy yesterday too. Bit late for this year but I think Peter Teague from Dromore is capable of performing a similar role, he impressed in the club championship this year.

Angelo's point on the kickouts was a key one from yesterday. Over the past few years, when the ball goes dead we've gotten so used to the TV coverage showing replays of scores and by the time the camera switches back to the play the kickout has been taken and we've missed what's happened. For so many of Morgan's kickouts yesterday, after the replay it panned back to the action and he was still standing over the ball trying for find an option, and eventually had to go long where our makeshift midfield inevitably lost out to Donegal's bigger men. It was unlike us as we're usually good at getting the short kickouts away and this is even more important when we don't have big targets in the middle of the field.

delgany

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12402 on: October 19, 2020, 10:54:04 AM »
Yesterday was a game of shadow boxing be different in two weeks time imo.

Lets hope so, because that first half was absolute nonsense.

McKenna at Full Forward caused a bit of bother. How much of it was Donegal home and hosed, who knows but at least it looked a bit better shape wise. We are still in the situation where we have a mix and match of about any of 10 players on any given day could all start and there isn't a whole pile between any of them.

Donegal, for a county team that couldn't train together there for a few weeks looked a few levels above which is very worrying.

Donegal have played a number of challenge games recently though, they played Mayo and Roscommon in the past two weeks.

McKenna did well at full forward and I'd keep him in there the next day, hopefully Harte is back too.

The big issues for me are the gaping hole in the middle of our defence, the lack of a midfield and the complete absence of a kickout strategy.

If you watch back yesterday, look at the difference between the two teams on kickouts, everytime Patton put the ball down there were Donegal players bursting into open space with no Tyrone player near them. In contrast anytime Morgan put the ball down every Tyrone man was pretty much marked tightly. Which led to Morgan having to go long down the pitch and allowed Donegal to dominate there, this is a clear failing on the training ground. Donegal targeted this relentlessly.

Kilpatrick/Kennedy/R Donnelly/McClure are the outright midfield options in our squad, just go with two of them, leave Hampsey in defence and leave McKenna and Mattie in the attack.

Who else was missing from the matchday squad yesterday? Kennedy and Harte were named but replaced and apart from that Cassidy, R Donnelly and Bradley were the only players I could think of not there that might have started. Coney is not getting much of a look in either, thought he would have been a better option to bring in ahead of O'Neill and Mulgrew.

Fair enough, I have heard Tyrone have played plenty of in house stuff though v U20s and a select which included some much promoted names on this board. Next Sunday v Mayo will be a Championship game in itself now.

Sure you know yourself, you won't see Kilpatrick this year. That's just what Harte does. Kennedy has been there a few years now and he's still unknown. Forget about McClure. He's been there even longer. I've a feeling you'll see McKenna go to Midfield in the Donegal Championship game.

Were players not currently on the panel asked in for in house games? Any names?

Rory Brennan will be a huge loss if he's out for remainder of the year. He's one of our go to man markers for the oppositions more physical forward and rarely lets us down. Thought he did a decent job on Murphy yesterday too. Bit late for this year but I think Peter Teague from Dromore is capable of performing a similar role, he impressed in the club championship this year.

Angelo's point on the kickouts was a key one from yesterday. Over the past few years, when the ball goes dead we've gotten so used to the TV coverage showing replays of scores and by the time the camera switches back to the play the kickout has been taken and we've missed what's happened. For so many of Morgan's kickouts yesterday, after the replay it panned back to the action and he was still standing over the ball trying for find an option, and eventually had to go long where our makeshift midfield inevitably lost out to Donegal's bigger men. It was unlike us as we're usually good at getting the short kickouts away and this is even more important when we don't have big targets in the middle of the field.

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

bigpackiechestout

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12403 on: October 19, 2020, 11:52:40 AM »

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

This is the point though. The top sides at the moment don't rely on break ball for the most part. They are able to work short kickouts or have free men and overloads on the wings. Yesterday Morgan didn't seem to have many options other than to hit it long down the middle at which point it is a 50/ 50 ball at best, and in reality even less given out makeshift midfield.

Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #12404 on: October 19, 2020, 11:57:24 AM »

I thought  the main problem with kickouts  to midfield was that HB &HF completely misread the breaking ball. It was evident that donegal were intent on break ball/ punching it forward, tyrone HB far to far forward to intercept breaks.

This is the point though. The top sides at the moment don't rely on break ball for the most part. They are able to work short kickouts or have free men and overloads on the wings. Yesterday Morgan didn't seem to have many options other than to hit it long down the middle at which point it is a 50/ 50 ball at best, and in reality even less given out makeshift midfield.

Yeah, Tyrone players looked to be static on kickouts compared to Donegal. Kickouts are something reflected on the training pitch, if you work on them an get a good strategy then it will work. We just looked to have nothing practiced here. We gave Donegal the handy restarts to build from the back but Donegal were on every one of our kickouts like a rash. Morgan was forced to take bigger and bigger risk with them as a result. He clipped one very risky one out to either Rafferty or Brennan in the second half that a Donegal player got a hand on and if it had been an inch closer he was in on a one on one. That's how desperate we were getting.

The u20s had similar problems on Saturday too.

We know Morgan's kickouts are good so the problem is more with the lack of options, the lack of movement, the lack of any sort of strategy or focus on what we are doing there.