Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[jb81]

Hard to really pinpoint what went wrong on Sunday.

Someone said it above, I don't think we would have beat them playing at our best ( which we clearly weren't ), but the lack of effort?, intensity and pace/fitness was extremely disappointing as it is something we know we do have.
There was no pressure from us. We can't completely complain that the blanket defence was the reason we lost the game, because we didn't execute it like we normally do ( albeit against lesser teams ). Dublin played more men back when we had the ball than we did ( Bradley normally stayed up ), Dublin had every player inside their own 45 numerous times. Disappointing that we were still playing it when 7/8/9 points down though. Same tactic, but executed better by better players. And they have better players, but the best players don't always win, and I thought we had a better 'team' than what showed up on Sunday. There is no shame in getting beat by this Dublin, especially if we had put everything into it, which unfortunately we didn't look like we showed up at all.

Must have been hard to play in that game. We and the players know McCann, Harte, Donnelly, Sludden have pace and power in abundance, but to see these fellas in blue put you to shame in that regard must have been a real kick in the balls. I think our heads did drop very early on when we realised how good they were. Not something I would normally associate with a MH team.

We did give a bit of a go at the start of the 2nd half, but we hit 3/4 wides in a row, which at the very least would have asked some questions and maybe give us a bit of confidence boost.
Everytime we turned over the ball which to be fair we did a good few times, we didn't put it over the bar, everytime they did they pointed. It must have been mentally draining.

They seemed afraid of the dubs, showed them way too much respect. But respect Dublin have earned by being one of the best teams I have ever witnessed.

Where do we go from here, I don't think it can fall on MH, but he must take some responsibility. No plan B as such. But when we did push up on the kick-out it was obviously said to the players take a man and mark him. So how did one and sometimes even two Dubs still be free. Nothing MH can do about players not doing there job. We have a good core group of players. Namely Harte, Donnelly, McCann, C Cavanagh, Bradley, Sludden, Morgan, McCarron and Hampsey has shown well in his first year. But our other players were found out today. McGeary, McCann ( Conal ), McCrory, McNamee just didn't have it. I won't be too harsh on Mulgrew as he is only 19.

Our full back line is a problem, as well as our full forward line if MH chose to have one sometime.

I am not surprised by the defeat more the manner of the defeat. I have no preference if MH stays or goes. I'm not sure anyone can get anymore out of these players, but maybe there are a few different players which might add to them. Would love to see a definitive variation in tactics to see what we can do when let. Will be curious to see what the Count Board decide to do.

Next Year and what we can expect will entirely depend on who is in charge. If it's Logan et al from the U21's then surely we are in for more of the same for years to come?

I would be looking at something like this, playing more attacking but with the capabilities to defend.

1) O'Neill
2) McNamee / Mc Geary / Gorman from Killyclogher
3) Hampsey
4) McCarron
5) McCann
6) C Cavanagh
7) Meyler / Rory Brennan
M Donnelly
9) Harte / McClure
10) Sludden
11) Harte / C McCann / McClure
12) Mulgrew
13) Lee Brennan
14) Canavan  ( Just to scare teams ), would love to find an out and out full forward. Any thoughts from around the clubs ??
15) Bradley

[The Golden Years]

Hard to really pinpoint what went wrong on Sunday.

Someone said it above, I don't think we would have beat them playing at our best ( which we clearly weren't ), but the lack of effort?, intensity and pace/fitness was extremely disappointing as it is something we know we do have.
There was no pressure from us. We can't completely complain that the blanket defence was the reason we lost the game, because we didn't execute it like we normally do ( albeit against lesser teams ). Dublin played more men back when we had the ball than we did ( Bradley normally stayed up ), Dublin had every player inside their own 45 numerous times. Disappointing that we were still playing it when 7/8/9 points down though. Same tactic, but executed better by better players. And they have better players, but the best players don't always win, and I thought we had a better 'team' than what showed up on Sunday. There is no shame in getting beat by this Dublin, especially if we had put everything into it, which unfortunately we didn't look like we showed up at all.

Must have been hard to play in that game. We and the players know McCann, Harte, Donnelly, Sludden have pace and power in abundance, but to see these fellas in blue put you to shame in that regard must have been a real kick in the balls. I think our heads did drop very early on when we realised how good they were. Not something I would normally associate with a MH team.

We did give a bit of a go at the start of the 2nd half, but we hit 3/4 wides in a row, which at the very least would have asked some questions and maybe give us a bit of confidence boost.
Everytime we turned over the ball which to be fair we did a good few times, we didn't put it over the bar, everytime they did they pointed. It must have been mentally draining.

They seemed afraid of the dubs, showed them way too much respect. But respect Dublin have earned by being one of the best teams I have ever witnessed.

Where do we go from here, I don't think it can fall on MH, but he must take some responsibility. No plan B as such. But when we did push up on the kick-out it was obviously said to the players take a man and mark him. So how did one and sometimes even two Dubs still be free. Nothing MH can do about players not doing there job. We have a good core group of players. Namely Harte, Donnelly, McCann, C Cavanagh, Bradley, Sludden, Morgan, McCarron and Hampsey has shown well in his first year. But our other players were found out today. McGeary, McCann ( Conal ), McCrory, McNamee just didn't have it. I won't be too harsh on Mulgrew as he is only 19.

Our full back line is a problem, as well as our full forward line if MH chose to have one sometime.

I am not surprised by the defeat more the manner of the defeat. I have no preference if MH stays or goes. I'm not sure anyone can get anymore out of these players, but maybe there are a few different players which might add to them. Would love to see a definitive variation in tactics to see what we can do when let. Will be curious to see what the Count Board decide to do.

Next Year and what we can expect will entirely depend on who is in charge. If it's Logan et al from the U21's then surely we are in for more of the same for years to come?

I would be looking at something like this, playing more attacking but with the capabilities to defend.

1) O'Neill
2) McNamee / Mc Geary / Gorman from Killyclogher
3) Hampsey
4) McCarron
5) McCann
6) C Cavanagh
7) Meyler / Rory Brennan
M Donnelly
9) Harte / McClure
10) Sludden
11) Harte / C McCann / McClure
12) Mulgrew
13) Lee Brennan
14) Canavan  ( Just to scare teams ), would love to find an out and out full forward. Any thoughts from around the clubs ??
15) Bradley

I think he was found out on Sunday also.  Long Past his best

[omagh_gael]

In my opinion Harte should have one more year on the caveat that the one man in the opposition half is dropped. The reason we play, coach the kids in our clubs and travel the county/country following our club/county is for entertainment and fun. The bottom line is I want to enjoy myself and take my kids along to develop a passion for the games I love.

The game on Sunday was brutal as our team took a trimming but it's beginning to get extremely hard to accept the tactics we are employing and the impact that has on the games we are paying big money to follow. What would Mayo or Kerry do if they had have conceded that early goal? They'd reshuffle their pack and have a go. As a fan it was depressing knowing that Dublin's goal in the 4th minute almost certainly meant we were going to lose the game. What's even more startling is that from row x in the upper Cusack you could tell this mindset had more or less besieged the players. The urgency and resignation appeared to take hold straight away.

It would be really interesting to get an anonymous poll from the panel to see who is happy playing in this current system. Imagine being Mark Bradley who has probably dreamed of wearing the #14 jersey for Tyrone seniors in a full Croke Park on days like Sunday. As far as I can tell (I only managed to rewatch the match to half time) he got one shot off in the whole game. He literally is there to pull defenders out of position. Bullshit.

These issues were held at bay because we were winning and the QF from last year could be written off as a bad day at the office. However, the last three league games against better quality opposition was an early warning sign that this system is totally redundant.

We have a serious bunch of players who have the potential to score the big prize. However, we now have rock solid evidence that the current approach will not do. I'm not saying we should have won on Sunday because the Dubs were awesome, however, a more orthodox approach is unlikely to jeopardise our chances of playing football in August but It will surely provide a decent opposition for the top three teams. We need to put more trust in our natural talent but I have a sinking feeling that Mickey will stick with his guns and keep ploughing this ultra defensive furrow.

[southtyronegael]

omagh gael, your post makes alot of sense and i totally agree with you except where you say mickey should get another year. this is mickeys game plan. he has already said he will not change it after one bad result. do you really think he is gonna let the county board dictate to him how his team should play? he is too stubborn to change now. we need complete change root and branch. that starts with a new manager and a new vision.

[square_ball]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

[An Watcher]

Assuming Donegal get back to their old self in any shape or form, could open and expansive football beat them in a dreary day in ballybofey.  It didn't previously hence the negative tactics we see today

[Il Bomber Destro]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

Would like to see Cassidy get a few games next year at corner back, he has great pace and is a good player. McKernan will probably be another few years away from being physically ready for marking the elite forwards in big games but should be called in to get some experience.

Sadly there's not an awful lot of players in the county you'd fancy as quality man markers. I agree with what others have said about McCarron, he seems to have lost a lot of pace and got far too top heavy, he's had a poor season but I would still have him in the squad as an option at least, I think he is best suited anymore to the physical guys but his days as a marker for a mobile, elusive forward are numbered. McNamee was outstanding in 2015 but has had a few injuries since and doesn't look to be at the same level. His effort for the goal Sunday was pathetic

Something like this:

1) Morgan
2) Hampsey
3) McCarron
4) Cassidy
5) McCann
6) Rory Brennan
7) Meyler
C Cavanagh
9) McClure
10) R Donnelly
11) Sludden
12) Harte
13) Brennan/Bradley
14) M Donnelly
15) McAliskey

With Mattie playing out around the middle.

Whatever about the players being up to it or not, we need to try a few things new next year. McHugh, Loughran, McCullagh and Cassidy saw next to no action this year. We need to try and develop a ball winner in the full forward line, we need to have at least two men in there at all times and we need to trust our markers a bit more to do the job with less protection.

Ruairi Mullan was a player who impressed me an awful lot at corner back for the u21s a couple of years back. He dropped off the panel fairly sharpish this year, for whatever reason I'm not sure but I think he is well worth another look.

[omagh_gael]

omagh gael, your post makes alot of sense and i totally agree with you except where you say mickey should get another year. this is mickeys game plan. he has already said he will not change it after one bad result. do you really think he is gonna let the county board dictate to him how his team should play? he is too stubborn to change now. we need complete change root and branch. that starts with a new manager and a new vision.

I don't know, I'd say that game will have rattled him big time. Like I say, the Mayo game could be written off as a bad day at the office but Sunday was an out and out disaster. If we line up the same way in 2018 there'll be some uproar.

[southtyronegael]

omagh gael, your post makes alot of sense and i totally agree with you except where you say mickey should get another year. this is mickeys game plan. he has already said he will not change it after one bad result. do you really think he is gonna let the county board dictate to him how his team should play? he is too stubborn to change now. we need complete change root and branch. that starts with a new manager and a new vision.

I don't know, I'd say that game will have rattled him big time. Like I say, the Mayo game could be written off as a bad day at the office but Sunday was an out and out disaster. If we line up the same way in 2018 there'll be some uproar.

the wont be any uproar cause there wont be anyone at the games to roar.

[Frank_The_Tank]

Assuming Donegal get back to their old self in any shape or form, could open and expansive football beat them in a dreary day in ballybofey.  It didn't previously hence the negative tactics we see today

Are you really worried about beating Donegal in ballbofey.  If like to see how open and expansive fairs in croke park in the last rounds of the championship - can't go much worse that doing worse against Dublin than CarlowF

[blewuporstuffed]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

Would like to see Cassidy get a few games next year at corner back, he has great pace and is a good player. McKernan will probably be another few years away from being physically ready for marking the elite forwards in big games but should be called in to get some experience.

Sadly there's not an awful lot of players in the county you'd fancy as quality man markers. I agree with what others have said about McCarron, he seems to have lost a lot of pace and got far too top heavy, he's had a poor season but I would still have him in the squad as an option at least, I think he is best suited anymore to the physical guys but his days as a marker for a mobile, elusive forward are numbered. McNamee was outstanding in 2015 but has had a few injuries since and doesn't look to be at the same level. His effort for the goal Sunday was pathetic

Something like this:

1) Morgan
2) Hampsey
3) McCarron
4) Cassidy
5) McCann
6) Rory Brennan
7) Meyler
C Cavanagh
9) McClure
10) R Donnelly
11) Sludden
12) Harte
13) Brennan/Bradley
14) M Donnelly
15) McAliskey

With Mattie playing out around the middle.

Whatever about the players being up to it or not, we need to try a few things new next year. McHugh, Loughran, McCullagh and Cassidy saw next to no action this year. We need to try and develop a ball winner in the full forward line, we need to have at least two men in there at all times and we need to trust our markers a bit more to do the job with less protection.

Ruairi Mullan was a player who impressed me an awful lot at corner back for the u21s a couple of years back. He dropped off the panel fairly sharpish this year, for whatever reason I'm not sure but I think he is well worth another look.

McNamee is along way ahead of cassidy & mccarron in tha FB line

[jb81]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

Would like to see Cassidy get a few games next year at corner back, he has great pace and is a good player. McKernan will probably be another few years away from being physically ready for marking the elite forwards in big games but should be called in to get some experience.

Sadly there's not an awful lot of players in the county you'd fancy as quality man markers. I agree with what others have said about McCarron, he seems to have lost a lot of pace and got far too top heavy, he's had a poor season but I would still have him in the squad as an option at least, I think he is best suited anymore to the physical guys but his days as a marker for a mobile, elusive forward are numbered. McNamee was outstanding in 2015 but has had a few injuries since and doesn't look to be at the same level. His effort for the goal Sunday was pathetic

Something like this:

1) Morgan
2) Hampsey
3) McCarron
4) Cassidy
5) McCann
6) Rory Brennan
7) Meyler
C Cavanagh
9) McClure
10) R Donnelly
11) Sludden
12) Harte
13) Brennan/Bradley
14) M Donnelly
15) McAliskey

With Mattie playing out around the middle.

Whatever about the players being up to it or not, we need to try a few things new next year. McHugh, Loughran, McCullagh and Cassidy saw next to no action this year. We need to try and develop a ball winner in the full forward line, we need to have at least two men in there at all times and we need to trust our markers a bit more to do the job with less protection.

Ruairi Mullan was a player who impressed me an awful lot at corner back for the u21s a couple of years back. He dropped off the panel fairly sharpish this year, for whatever reason I'm not sure but I think he is well worth another look.

I forgot about McAliskey actually. Hope he returns well from the injury, would be very good option to have in the FF line. Has a bit of strength and ball winning about him.
The Mattie Donnelly one is the problem. the last two years he lined out at midfield and played around there, 2 all stars. This year he lined out at CF and played anywhere and everywhere but it didn't work for him, did he really know what he should be doing.. It also means we are losing out on lining out another possible scoring forward.. I think he has to line out at midfield and let us have another forward on the field

[Dire Ear]

MDonnelly is far too slow,  don't know where you would play him

[omagh_gael]

I think our championship line up next year should look something like this...

Morgan
Hampsey
McNamee
McCarron
McCann
R Brennan
Harte
Donnelly
Colm Cav
McClure
Sludden
Mulgrew
L Brennan
Bradley
McAliskey

I'd have the team line up something like....

                                   Morgan

Hampsey                McNamee                     McCarron

                 McCann                    Brennan       
                               
                                 Colm Cav

McClure     Sludden     Harte     Donnelly         Mulgrew

                                    Bradley

                      L Brennan        McAliskey
   
There has to more commitment to attack and to do that we'd have no option but to give our defence more responsibility. Mayo play two men up front and Doherty as a link man between their defensive structure and forward unit. This gives the opposition no option but to leave more men back 'tagging.' Tiernan McCann talked about this on Wooly's podcast that last year Mayo stumped them because they commited more men forward. He, and the other defenders, had no option but to hang back and tag their men therefore almost wiping out our gameplan. Looking back with hindsight it was foolish to think this system could stump the Dubs. I suppose that's were our natural county bias clouds our rational thinking.

[tyroneStatto]

as others have said. McCarron is done at this level.

also don't think you can get away with having 2 small players in the forward line.  it's one or the other, if even that.