Author Topic: Tyrone County Football and Hurling  (Read 1608657 times)

tyroneman

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #720 on: January 28, 2015, 07:50:17 PM »
Cutting Coney is a very poor decision imho. He was playing well with a run of games in the league a few years ago and scored 8 from play in Cork last year lets not forget. Previous poster is spot on. These players need a solid run knowing they won't get hooked and benched for the slightest mistake.

BennyHarp

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #721 on: January 28, 2015, 08:18:41 PM »
I'm a bit disappointed about Coney getting the boot too. I just never felt he was given the run of games whereby a full picture of his ability at senior level could be assessed. His performance in Cork whet the appetite and was an insight into what he was capable of and I think we all were hoping he'd kick on from that. I suppose Mickey sees him every night in training and is making judgements based on more than just the 60 mins we see at the weekend. However, I'd be a bit worried that a few of the younger lads may meet the same fate. McNulty could be a great asset on the team but learning the ropes at midfield at inter county isn't easy and he will have a few below par games as he progresses. I hope Mickey can stick with him because he has the physique, power and ability to be a real asset in a position we have struggled in for a few years.
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Redhand Santa

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #722 on: January 28, 2015, 08:34:08 PM »
Has it been confirmed Coney was dropped or did he leave of his own accord? Tyrone supporters never appear too tolerant of bad performances from the team in any competition so I'm surprised so many are keen to play players no matter how they play.

Coney has had plenty of opportunities over the years when he's fit. Don't forget he missed a lot of time through injuries. I don't think his issues relate to a lack of game time. He looks great when given a bit of space but has always struggled in games with tighter defences and a bit more physcial. It's hard to know whether that will improve going forward or not.

Some of these players need to start taking responsibility for their own performances. A a  lot of them are now at an age where its time to deliver. Look at Mattie Donnelly and McCurry - they have taken chances and proved something and earned their place. Every player has to earn it and can't be played because people think they have potential.

trileacman

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #723 on: January 28, 2015, 11:49:08 PM »
Some of these players need to start taking responsibility for their own performances. A a  lot of them are now at an age where its time to deliver. Look at Mattie Donnelly and McCurry - they have taken chances and proved something and earned their place. Every player has to earn it and can't be played because people think they have potential.

Agreed, also he's not banished from IC football either. Look at McKenna, thrust into IC too early, didn't preform and was tactfully let go on good terms and welcomed back into the fold when he got up to pace again. I'd rather Coney goes out with Ardboe for a while, clears the injuries, defines his role on the pitch and comes back. For all we know he could be well relieved of being rid the commitment of IC football for a while. I can't imagine it's a whole lot of fun hanging around the edges of an high profile but unsuccessful panel for a few years considering how draining it must be on your time. When you look at the time and physical commitment Mattie and McCurry put into becoming first team players it's no wonder not every man is lining up to do it. It's not just enough to be talented anymore, you have to be a professional athlete without getting paid, that's the level Mayo and particularly Dublin have taken it too.
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LeoMc

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #724 on: January 29, 2015, 08:21:56 AM »
A chance to plaay 15-16 games consistently with perhaps less expectation could be the making of him. He always struck me as a confidence player.

nrico2006

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #725 on: January 29, 2015, 09:02:05 AM »
Dermy Carlin looks a cert to go.  Joe needs a bit of extra training to get in shape, wouldn't discount him just yet.  Maybe its the kick up the ass Kyle Coney needs to give him a year out.  As for Mark Donnelly I think theres worse.

Kyle Coney's senior career has been so stop and start that I think a year out would be the end rather than a kick up the ass. Have to say I am disappointed that he has been cut from the panel, such a talented minor and has on occasion shown glimpses at senior level. I would have loved to have seem him get a proper run of games in the forward line to see what he could do. Fair enough if he failed to kick on then let him go. Injuries have been an issue but I think the lack of that series of starts has also hindered him.

Raymie Mulgrew had a similar experience and we are now in danger of failing to find a place in the senior team for the outstanding individual talent of the 2008 minor team just as we did with Mulgrew from the 2004 team. I'm not suggesting at all that management is entirely to blame and of course great minors don't always become great seniors but Tyrone can ill afford to miss out on talents like these.

I would like to think Joe will be back before the season is out. Not too bothered about the others, good players and in the case of Carlin and Donnelly very good servants but I think we're better off giving the chance to younger players.

Very good point - I feel sorry for Coney and a few others who never seem to get a run of games that are afforded to other players. The likes of Coney, McAliskey, Niall McKenna, Rony O'Neill should be told you have 3 or 4 games whereby you will start, not be taken off unless injured and let us see what you can do - after that then we can make a fair judgement. It is difficult enough to hold a place on the Tyrone team without the fear that you will be first man off or you are looking towards MH all game to see if anyone is coming on...

Give these lads a fair crack at the whip and then they can have no complaints...

Exactly.  When players who aren't big favourites of the manager get the odd start they are looking over their shoulder for every minute they are on the pitch, and to remain on the pitch or get a start the next day they have to come up with a spectacular performance when in reality the odds on that performance happening are greatly reduced due to their lack of a consistent run and the obvious confidence that would be built with that.  There are some players in the panel who seem to get start after start irrelevant of performance, pretty unfair that others don't get the same chance.  Coney has struggled against tight defences and doesn't seem to have much ball running ability/pace, but in saying that there aren't any inter county forwards who thrive against the modern day tight defence.
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BennyHarp

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #726 on: January 29, 2015, 09:14:23 AM »
Some of these players need to start taking responsibility for their own performances. A a  lot of them are now at an age where its time to deliver. Look at Mattie Donnelly and McCurry - they have taken chances and proved something and earned their place. Every player has to earn it and can't be played because people think they have potential.

Agreed, also he's not banished from IC football either. Look at McKenna, thrust into IC too early, didn't preform and was tactfully let go on good terms and welcomed back into the fold when he got up to pace again. I'd rather Coney goes out with Ardboe for a while, clears the injuries, defines his role on the pitch and comes back. For all we know he could be well relieved of being rid the commitment of IC football for a while. I can't imagine it's a whole lot of fun hanging around the edges of an high profile but unsuccessful panel for a few years considering how draining it must be on your time. When you look at the time and physical commitment Mattie and McCurry put into becoming first team players it's no wonder not every man is lining up to do it. It's not just enough to be talented anymore, you have to be a professional athlete without getting paid, that's the level Mayo and particularly Dublin have taken it too.

Much as I like Niall McKenna and was impressed by him on Saturday night, I think its still a bit early to be lauding, as a success, his comeback to the county scene after one good performance in the McKenna Cup. Is this the blue print for the future? Do other counties use this strategy with their best young players? Playing in the stop, start nature of club football in Tyrone will not necessarily help improve Kyle Coney's game. As Redhand Santa suggested, Kyle can "look great when given a bit of space but has always struggled in games with tighter defences". How is he going to improve in this regard playing club football? Personally, I think he is worth persevering with but, it looks like Mickey doesn't. Assuming it was Mickey's decision to drop him from the panel, then that's his prerogative as he sees much more of him than me, so that's fair enough I suppose.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 09:26:04 AM by BennyHarp »
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lenny

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #727 on: January 29, 2015, 09:51:27 AM »
Some of these players need to start taking responsibility for their own performances. A a  lot of them are now at an age where its time to deliver. Look at Mattie Donnelly and McCurry - they have taken chances and proved something and earned their place. Every player has to earn it and can't be played because people think they have potential.

Agreed, also he's not banished from IC football either. Look at McKenna, thrust into IC too early, didn't preform and was tactfully let go on good terms and welcomed back into the fold when he got up to pace again. I'd rather Coney goes out with Ardboe for a while, clears the injuries, defines his role on the pitch and comes back. For all we know he could be well relieved of being rid the commitment of IC football for a while. I can't imagine it's a whole lot of fun hanging around the edges of an high profile but unsuccessful panel for a few years considering how draining it must be on your time. When you look at the time and physical commitment Mattie and McCurry put into becoming first team players it's no wonder not every man is lining up to do it. It's not just enough to be talented anymore, you have to be a professional athlete without getting paid, that's the level Mayo and particularly Dublin have taken it too.

Much as I like Niall McKenna and was impressed by him on Saturday night, I think its still a bit early to be lauding, as a success, his comeback to the county scene after one good performance in the McKenna Cup. Is this the blue print for the future? Do other counties use this strategy with their best young players? Playing in the stop, start nature of club football in Tyrone will not necessarily help improve Kyle Coney's game. As Redhand Santa suggested, Kyle can "look great when given a bit of space but has always struggled in games with tighter defences". How is he going to improve in this regard playing club football? Personally, I think he is worth persevering with but, it looks like Mickey doesn't. Assuming it was Mickey's decision to drop him from the panel, then that's his prerogative as he sees much more of him than me, so that's fair enough I suppose.

He's quite a similar player to suckie bell in Derry. Very good in their comfort zone of club football but haven't proved they have the mental strength to make the step up to county football. They both have a chance yet to make it but i have my doubts on both.

supersarsfields

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #728 on: January 29, 2015, 11:01:10 AM »
Some of these players need to start taking responsibility for their own performances. A a  lot of them are now at an age where its time to deliver. Look at Mattie Donnelly and McCurry - they have taken chances and proved something and earned their place. Every player has to earn it and can't be played because people think they have potential.

Agreed, also he's not banished from IC football either. Look at McKenna, thrust into IC too early, didn't preform and was tactfully let go on good terms and welcomed back into the fold when he got up to pace again. I'd rather Coney goes out with Ardboe for a while, clears the injuries, defines his role on the pitch and comes back. For all we know he could be well relieved of being rid the commitment of IC football for a while. I can't imagine it's a whole lot of fun hanging around the edges of an high profile but unsuccessful panel for a few years considering how draining it must be on your time. When you look at the time and physical commitment Mattie and McCurry put into becoming first team players it's no wonder not every man is lining up to do it. It's not just enough to be talented anymore, you have to be a professional athlete without getting paid, that's the level Mayo and particularly Dublin have taken it too.

Much as I like Niall McKenna and was impressed by him on Saturday night, I think its still a bit early to be lauding, as a success, his comeback to the county scene after one good performance in the McKenna Cup. Is this the blue print for the future? Do other counties use this strategy with their best young players? Playing in the stop, start nature of club football in Tyrone will not necessarily help improve Kyle Coney's game. As Redhand Santa suggested, Kyle can "look great when given a bit of space but has always struggled in games with tighter defences". How is he going to improve in this regard playing club football? Personally, I think he is worth persevering with but, it looks like Mickey doesn't. Assuming it was Mickey's decision to drop him from the panel, then that's his prerogative as he sees much more of him than me, so that's fair enough I suppose.

Heard from a Fermanagh man (And fellow poster on here) that Kyle left the grounds before the end of the game against Cavan so that may signal a bit of a rift. Not sure if this is the case or not but to me would explain things a bit as I don't believe Kyle would have been dropped from the panel otherwise.

skeog

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #729 on: January 29, 2015, 04:32:03 PM »
he is not in photo at the end so he must have left the ground

rrhf

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #730 on: January 29, 2015, 07:09:50 PM »
Some of these players need to start taking responsibility for their own performances. A a  lot of them are now at an age where its time to deliver. Look at Mattie Donnelly and McCurry - they have taken chances and proved something and earned their place. Every player has to earn it and can't be played because people think they have potential.

Agreed, also he's not banished from IC football either. Look at McKenna, thrust into IC too early, didn't preform and was tactfully let go on good terms and welcomed back into the fold when he got up to pace again. I'd rather Coney goes out with Ardboe for a while, clears the injuries, defines his role on the pitch and comes back. For all we know he could be well relieved of being rid the commitment of IC football for a while. I can't imagine it's a whole lot of fun hanging around the edges of an high profile but unsuccessful panel for a few years considering how draining it must be on your time. When you look at the time and physical commitment Mattie and McCurry put into becoming first team players it's no wonder not every man is lining up to do it. It's not just enough to be talented anymore, you have to be a professional athlete without getting paid, that's the level Mayo and particularly Dublin have taken it too.

Much as I like Niall McKenna and was impressed by him on Saturday night, I think its still a bit early to be lauding, as a success, his comeback to the county scene after one good performance in the McKenna Cup. Is this the blue print for the future? Do other counties use this strategy with their best young players? Playing in the stop, start nature of club football in Tyrone will not necessarily help improve Kyle Coney's game. As Redhand Santa suggested, Kyle can "look great when given a bit of space but has always struggled in games with tighter defences". How is he going to improve in this regard playing club football? Personally, I think he is worth persevering with but, it looks like Mickey doesn't. Assuming it was Mickey's decision to drop him from the panel, then that's his prerogative as he sees much more of him than me, so that's fair enough I suppose.

He's quite a similar player to suckie bell in Derry. Very good in their comfort zone of club football but haven't proved they have the mental strength to make the step up to county football. They both have a chance yet to make it but i have my doubts on both.
Time will tell, but I think its time we were all a bit praiseworthy of the management this year.  Some of the younger players and those who were playing beneath themselves to date have made strides so Im happy.  Lets not doubt progress but encourage it ye miserable hoors.  Long way to go and of course Coney leaving is disappointing.  Am I wrong or have Carmen no representation this year now? Coalisland?  Errigal just 2. The face of Tyrone football is changing...   

trileacman

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #731 on: January 29, 2015, 08:38:15 PM »
Exactly.  When players who aren't big favourites of the manager get the odd start they are looking over their shoulder for every minute they are on the pitch, and to remain on the pitch or get a start the next day they have to come up with a spectacular performance when in reality the odds on that performance happening are greatly reduced due to their lack of a consistent run and the obvious confidence that would be built with that. There are some players in the panel who seem to get start after start irrelevant of performance, pretty unfair that others don't get the same chance.  Coney has struggled against tight defences and doesn't seem to have much ball running ability/pace, but in saying that there aren't any inter county forwards who thrive against the modern day tight defence.

Who? Without any examples thats just a load of whataboutery. Are you saying McAliskey/RON/McKenna are only there because they're Mickey's favourites? Who are these forwards who are starting irrelevant of preformance?
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Redhand Santa

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #732 on: January 29, 2015, 09:22:13 PM »
Dermy Carlin looks a cert to go.  Joe needs a bit of extra training to get in shape, wouldn't discount him just yet.  Maybe its the kick up the ass Kyle Coney needs to give him a year out.  As for Mark Donnelly I think theres worse.

Kyle Coney's senior career has been so stop and start that I think a year out would be the end rather than a kick up the ass. Have to say I am disappointed that he has been cut from the panel, such a talented minor and has on occasion shown glimpses at senior level. I would have loved to have seem him get a proper run of games in the forward line to see what he could do. Fair enough if he failed to kick on then let him go. Injuries have been an issue but I think the lack of that series of starts has also hindered him.

Raymie Mulgrew had a similar experience and we are now in danger of failing to find a place in the senior team for the outstanding individual talent of the 2008 minor team just as we did with Mulgrew from the 2004 team. I'm not suggesting at all that management is entirely to blame and of course great minors don't always become great seniors but Tyrone can ill afford to miss out on talents like these.

I would like to think Joe will be back before the season is out. Not too bothered about the others, good players and in the case of Carlin and Donnelly very good servants but I think we're better off giving the chance to younger players.

Very good point - I feel sorry for Coney and a few others who never seem to get a run of games that are afforded to other players. The likes of Coney, McAliskey, Niall McKenna, Rony O'Neill should be told you have 3 or 4 games whereby you will start, not be taken off unless injured and let us see what you can do - after that then we can make a fair judgement. It is difficult enough to hold a place on the Tyrone team without the fear that you will be first man off or you are looking towards MH all game to see if anyone is coming on...

Give these lads a fair crack at the whip and then they can have no complaints...

Exactly.  When players who aren't big favourites of the manager get the odd start they are looking over their shoulder for every minute they are on the pitch, and to remain on the pitch or get a start the next day they have to come up with a spectacular performance when in reality the odds on that performance happening are greatly reduced due to their lack of a consistent run and the obvious confidence that would be built with that.  There are some players in the panel who seem to get start after start irrelevant of performance, pretty unfair that others don't get the same chance.  Coney has struggled against tight defences and doesn't seem to have much ball running ability/pace, but in saying that there aren't any inter county forwards who thrive against the modern day tight defence.

But if you weren't sure of your place in the team surely instead of looking of your shoulder you should be bursting a gut to try and prove yourself? Coney is not a new player and has played dozens of times for Tyrone. He has not proved himself consistently to earn the right to stay on when playing bad. It was his third appearance of the McKenna Cup and he hadn't played great in any of the games and struggled to win ball going his way. I'd doubt very much if he'd have imrpoved any in the 2nd half and maybe Harte was trying to give him a kick up the bum by taking him off. He had lost 2 or 3 balls during the first half that he should have won.

I do think Coney had a future on the panel and was a good squad player. He's still relatively young and wouldn't be surprised if he was back on the panel within the next few months. Maybe 3 or 4 months away is what he needs right now. But I don't think Harte can be blamed for him not fully making it or him walking away over not getting on.

ONeill

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #733 on: January 29, 2015, 09:36:32 PM »
Disappointed with Coney's senior inter-county progression but that happens. He'll be a great player for Ardboe for a decade.

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redzone

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #734 on: January 29, 2015, 09:40:54 PM »
coney to me is the sort of player who has 100% talent and only 50% commitment. harte  would rather have 100% commitment and 50% talent.so would I. players like coney are plentiful in tyrone. u have to be fit to hold on to the ball first time, or, call it what u want.it will make or break him. hopefully he will come back a lot better. the ball is in court now. it would be grt to see him bulk up, get the injuries cleared and mayb b invite back ltr in the yr or next year. I would say hes a lot more talented than Raymond mulgrew was but he has to work his bollix of from here on in.