Author Topic: Tyrone County Football and Hurling  (Read 1885413 times)

In hiding

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9780 on: June 09, 2019, 12:14:58 AM »
Still no answer.

He was our spare defender because his immediate opponent Hugh Mc Fadden was playing as a sweeper for Donegal. If he was competing man to man as you insist why did mc fadden win the majority of donegals first half kickouts unopposed.

If we are competing man to man should Niall Morgan not be marking Shaun Patton? Man on man is generally used to reference leaving your defenders isolated in one of one battles with their attackers. Have Mayo man marked Cian O'Sullivan when they've played Dublin?

Cavanagh played in his midfield position and McFadden dropped back. He did not play as a sweeper as you imagined him to.

Tyrone played a very orthodox line up, Donegal got loads of men behind the ball when they didn't have it.

Donegal were very streetwise, Tyrone were very naive. We don't have the defenders to cope with top forwards man on man.

Cavanagh was playing in midfield, not defence. Did you actually watch the game?

Hey you win. This is a waste of time.
Man to man means niall Morgan Marks shaun patron.

Enough

Scoring Zone

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9781 on: June 09, 2019, 04:16:10 AM »
once they got regrouped at half time they had they dominated in large parts the second half but the damage was done. both harte and the players have to take heat for that the lack of leadership, confidence and a plan B was shocking. it shows Harte is the most influential player we have as the effect on the team until half time was palpable. But the calls for mccann to pick up brennan and not starting r brennan to pick up mchugh was crazy, particularly brennan not starting on mchugh where he has not give him a kick in previous matchups. mccann should get and deserves a length ban - no place for that bullshit, make an example of him

Redhand Santa

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9782 on: June 09, 2019, 07:41:01 AM »
Colm cavanagh 100 per cent did not play as an out and out sweeper as he did in previous years. I canít believe anyone who watched the game would argue he did. It was a really bad show all round.
We havenít learned how to attack the opposition kick out and it means pushing up is a waste of time.

BennyHarp

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9783 on: June 09, 2019, 08:54:48 AM »
Maybe we should sit Colm in at number 6 and protect the D. We need more mobility in the middle third and he doesnít appear to have the legs for a conventional midfield role especially if we are pushing up. But, we canít afford to lose his power in the tackle from our team just yet. The gaping hole in the centre of our defence yesterday is one of the biggest issues to come from our games so far and this is the only stop gap solution I can think of bar going full on blanket defence again - which nobody wants.
That was never a square ball!!

RedHand88

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9784 on: June 09, 2019, 09:53:21 AM »
Cavanagh was not a sweeper yesterday, whoever it was said he occupied the midfield is right.

The ease with which Donegal ran through the "sweeper position" over and over again shows it was a bad move.

trailer

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9785 on: June 09, 2019, 12:57:48 PM »
How do we get rid of Mickey Harte?


southtyronegael

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9786 on: June 09, 2019, 02:11:47 PM »
How do we get rid of Mickey Harte?
contracted until the end of next year unfortunately.

sambostar

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9787 on: June 09, 2019, 07:10:17 PM »
That was a complete shambles, dunno were to start re the selection/tactical/performance shortcomings.
Cavanagh certainly wasnít sweeper. He was out around middle 1st half but totally ineffectual. But didnít even seem to be targeted by Morgan for kick-outs. We must have lost every one in 1st half when we went long, same as Derry game. McDonnell from Errigal seemed to be sweeper 1st half, no harm to the lad but he was totally out of his depth. He was way too deep & so Donegal got countless scores from play from inside 45 with no-one pressurising the shot.
Harte selection was bemusing. I thought Cassidy must have been injured but then he appears with the game over so obviously not injured. And where does the lad Rafferty suddenly appear from in the starting lineup?? If you were Rory Brennan youíd be seriously thinking of joining your brother leaving the squad when you see McDonnell & Rafferty starting ahead of you.
As mentioned already there was no left-footed free-taker once Harte went off until McCurry came on about 30mins later. Again, Lee Brennan sitting watching the game on telly whilst McAliskey spent the whole day running up & down the stand sideline.
Overall tactics were baffling & played right into Donegal hands, they had 14 men behind the ball with at least 2 sweepers & just hit Tyrone on the counter all game. Yet Tyrone still let them take short kick-outs until about 5mins left. Yet on Tyrone kick outs Morgan was mostly forced long which we invariably lost. Kennedy does not appear to be county standard.
Another reason Tyrone are so open is because last year Mattie was back there helping out, so youíre robbing Peter to pay Paul now heís further forward. When Donegal had so many back it was a waste to leave Matty in there. Harte seemed to be fixated on idea that Tyrone needed to keep men up, there has to be adaptability in the tactics/system - Bonner must have been laughing at Tyrone after that yesterday

Angelo

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9788 on: June 09, 2019, 08:39:30 PM »
That was a complete shambles, dunno were to start re the selection/tactical/performance shortcomings.
Cavanagh certainly wasnít sweeper. He was out around middle 1st half but totally ineffectual. But didnít even seem to be targeted by Morgan for kick-outs. We must have lost every one in 1st half when we went long, same as Derry game. McDonnell from Errigal seemed to be sweeper 1st half, no harm to the lad but he was totally out of his depth. He was way too deep & so Donegal got countless scores from play from inside 45 with no-one pressurising the shot.
Harte selection was bemusing. I thought Cassidy must have been injured but then he appears with the game over so obviously not injured. And where does the lad Rafferty suddenly appear from in the starting lineup?? If you were Rory Brennan youíd be seriously thinking of joining your brother leaving the squad when you see McDonnell & Rafferty starting ahead of you.
As mentioned already there was no left-footed free-taker once Harte went off until McCurry came on about 30mins later. Again, Lee Brennan sitting watching the game on telly whilst McAliskey spent the whole day running up & down the stand sideline.
Overall tactics were baffling & played right into Donegal hands, they had 14 men behind the ball with at least 2 sweepers & just hit Tyrone on the counter all game. Yet Tyrone still let them take short kick-outs until about 5mins left. Yet on Tyrone kick outs Morgan was mostly forced long which we invariably lost. Kennedy does not appear to be county standard.
Another reason Tyrone are so open is because last year Mattie was back there helping out, so youíre robbing Peter to pay Paul now heís further forward. When Donegal had so many back it was a waste to leave Matty in there. Harte seemed to be fixated on idea that Tyrone needed to keep men up, there has to be adaptability in the tactics/system - Bonner must have been laughing at Tyrone after that yesterday

I'd agree with nearly all that.

I think you're a bit harsh on Kennedy though, he didn't have a great game but he's only 21 in his second Championship game and was a fair bit better than some of the more established players playing along side him.

The whole team was a shambles and some of the players who should be our leaders really let the team down.

The main issue thought was the shape and tactics. The players looked like they didn't have a clue. This Tyrone side really don't seem to respond well to crisis though. Most times when the tide turns against us in a big game against a good side, the decision making goes to pot. The game against Donegal last year in the Super 8s is the only one I can remember us actually playing with composure in that regard. We stumbled over the line against Monaghan and threw the game away against Dublin in a 10 minute spell in the first half after a great start.

Some of this is the players, some of it is how they're being coached.

southtyronegael

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9789 on: June 09, 2019, 11:51:40 PM »
Just watched the game again and it doesn't get any better.  Why commit to an attacking gameplan then drop 2 forwards and replace them with defenders/ midfielders? Negative bullshit before the game even started.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9790 on: June 10, 2019, 09:34:29 AM »
Saturday was a mess lads. From the late changes which absolutely perplexed everyone (then the lads named to start all came on, even more strangely) set the tone for the whole game.

Once Donegal got the goal it was pretty much all over bar the shouting. Murphy was absolutely unplayable, he gave a lesson and Donegal destroyed the Tyrone middle 8. That surely was a wake up call for some lads on the Tyrone side. Frank Burns was absolutely anonymous on top of the previously mentioned players. It was a strange, strange set up but fair play to Donegal - their goalkeeper was exceptional in both distribution and keeping itself. They just seemed to win ball when they wanted.

Could have been even worse had Donegal really wanted a bloodbath instead of tuning out with 10 mins to go and seeing out the clock.

Scary, scary difference between the teams on Saturday night.


chieftain

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9791 on: June 10, 2019, 11:28:06 AM »
You could see this performance coming after the last two outings against division 4 opposition. Some turn up in intensity from Donegal on Saturday evening, and it looked as if the tyrone players had forgot what hard work was.Loads of pointing and shadow tackling. Was it just me or did most of the tyrone team look seriously leggy from the get go. Too many players had bad performances, both seasoned campaigners and younger inexperienced players, for me the only man who stood up to be counted and really made an effort was mcgeary.

trailer

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9792 on: June 10, 2019, 11:35:30 AM »
The game was lost on the line. It's like Harte just drew the names out a hat. I have sympathy for the players. I think they had no idea what the game plan was. They didn't know who to pick up. They seemed to have no belief in Harte and Harte seemed to have no belief in his team.

On a broader point all the forwards who we thought would be leading the line for years aren't playing under Harte. Now yes 1 or 2 will naturally not make it, but at this point you have to point the finger at management. Off the top of my head

R O'Neill
McAliskey
McCurry
L Brennan
M Bradley
Mulgrew?  Ardboe lad. Is he injured?


None of them are able to hold down a starting position and most have left the panel. Surely there's something wrong here?

bigpackiechestout

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9793 on: June 10, 2019, 12:21:27 PM »
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0610/1054433-styles-make-fights-as-tyrone-walk-into-donegal-trap/

Aidan O'Rourke has some great analysis here IMO. We have a complete dearth of quality man markers on the panel which shows a) why we have set up the way we have in the past few years and b) why we lost when we deviated from that set-up on Saturday.

O'Rourke flags McKernan as someone who is not naturally suited to this role, he is an attacking wing-back, but is required to do a man marking job because of a lack of options elsewhere. Say what you want about Aidan McCrory but at least he is a natural corner back who plays there for his club and is trusted with marking the best forwards in the county when playing for Errigal.

Does anyone have an explanation for why we aren't producing quality players of this kind at the moment? Or are there any not on the panel or on the u20 panel who could make the step up in the next year or two?

It's often the case in Tyrone that the lads who are man markers for the county team play further out the field for their clubs, either as attaching half backs or at midfield. Does this lead to a dulling of their defensive abilities as time goes on as the player is more interested in the more glamorous role of pushing forward? I'm not so sure as I'd imagine this is also the case in other counties.

Interestingly, probably Tyrone's best marker of the past 10 years was Cathal McCarron who always played full back for Dromore.

southtyronegael

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Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« Reply #9794 on: June 10, 2019, 12:38:37 PM »
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0610/1054433-styles-make-fights-as-tyrone-walk-into-donegal-trap/

Aidan O'Rourke has some great analysis here IMO. We have a complete dearth of quality man markers on the panel which shows a) why we have set up the way we have in the past few years and b) why we lost when we deviated from that set-up on Saturday.

O'Rourke flags McKernan as someone who is not naturally suited to this role, he is an attacking wing-back, but is required to do a man marking job because of a lack of options elsewhere. Say what you want about Aidan McCrory but at least he is a natural corner back who plays there for his club and is trusted with marking the best forwards in the county when playing for Errigal.

Does anyone have an explanation for why we aren't producing quality players of this kind at the moment? Or are there any not on the panel or on the u20 panel who could make the step up in the next year or two?

It's often the case in Tyrone that the lads who are man markers for the county team play further out the field for their clubs, either as attaching half backs or at midfield. Does this lead to a dulling of their defensive abilities as time goes on as the player is more interested in the more glamorous role of pushing forward? I'm not so sure as I'd imagine this is also the case in other counties.

Interestingly, probably Tyrone's best marker of the past 10 years was Cathal McCarron who always played full back for Dromore.
utter, f**king rubbish. Mc Kernan not a man marker? I remember him like a limpet on mark Bradley in county final few years ago. Too many defenders got a free ride under the blanket last few years and now either been found out or forgot how to man mark. Harte been shown up once again and no amount of finger pointing gonna get him away this time.