British and Irish Lions Tour 2013

[muppet]

Hook said last night that Gatland could have played Amy Huberman at outside centre and it would have make no difference.

[INDIANA]

Drico was never really in Gatty's plans. Roberts injury put the spanner in the works.

I don't like Gatland to be honest- never have since he left the Irish gig. I feel desperately sorry for BOD over the whole incident. He'd have been better off doing a Wilkinson on it and staying at home.  He deserved better

Gatland should have been up front from the start. Told him he was 4th choice and given him the option on whether he wanted to go. Then he wouldn't have created the storm he did create. I've no sympathy for Gatland over it. He created it for himself.

[thewobbler]

A huge percentage of Irish rugby pundits have inadvertently used the Lions Tour to clearly prove they're incapable of subjective assessment.

Bearing this in mind, RTE could start their coverage of games 10 minutes before kick off, while the Indo and co can reduce their 16 page Saturday previews to just a couple. It's not like these fuckwits are educating or informing.

[seafoid]

Hook said last night that Gatland could have played Amy Huberman at outside centre and it would have make no difference.

The Aussies would have been rucking her and the pitch would have been otherwise empty
So the statement is incorrect

[Asal Mor]

A huge percentage of Irish rugby pundits have inadvertently used the Lions Tour to clearly prove they're incapable of subjective assessment.

Bearing this in mind, RTE could start their coverage of games 10 minutes before kick off, while the Indo and co can reduce their 16 page Saturday previews to just a couple. It's not like these fuckwits are educating or informing.

You're dead right there wobbler. I watched a video of Tony Ward and two other Indo experts last Thursday and it was hilarious. The three of them had no doubt that Gatland had blown the series by dropping O' Driscoll. I know nothing about rugby but I thought this a bit strange since O'Driscoll had done nothing special in the first two tests. We laugh at the English and all their ridiculous Beckham hype, but we're nearly as bad where O' Driscoll is concerned. I do feel a bit sorry for O'Driscoll in all this though as it wasn't of his own making, but something tells me he'll be alright.

[Asal Mor]

Drico was never really in Gatty's plans. Roberts injury put the spanner in the works.

I don't like Gatland to be honest- never have since he left the Irish gig. I feel desperately sorry for BOD over the whole incident. He'd have been better off doing a Wilkinson on it and staying at home.  He deserved better

Gatland should have been up front from the start. Told him he was 4th choice and given him the option on whether he wanted to go. Then he wouldn't have created the storm he did create. I've no sympathy for Gatland over it. He created it for himself.

Why should Gatland do that? Should he tell every player where they are in the pecking order or do you think O'Driscoll should get special treatment because he's so special? The whole thing is laughable. He's a player who's past his best, he got dropped and his team did fine without him. It happens all the time in sport.

[INDIANA]

Drico was never really in Gatty's plans. Roberts injury put the spanner in the works.

I don't like Gatland to be honest- never have since he left the Irish gig. I feel desperately sorry for BOD over the whole incident. He'd have been better off doing a Wilkinson on it and staying at home.  He deserved better

Gatland should have been up front from the start. Told him he was 4th choice and given him the option on whether he wanted to go. Then he wouldn't have created the storm he did create. I've no sympathy for Gatland over it. He created it for himself.

Why should Gatland do that? Should he tell every player where they are in the pecking order or do you think O'Driscoll should get special treatment because he's so special? The whole thing is laughable. He's a player who's past his best, he got dropped and his team did fine without him. It happens all the time in sport.

gatland cant have it both ways. hes whingeing now about criticism of making the call- well boo hoo. thats what he gets paid for.

If he was so concerned about the fall-out he should have left him at home to start with because its obvious to anyone with a brain he never intended to pick him anyone.

He wasn't just dropping any player- if he wasn't smart enough to expect the fallout then it doesnt say much for him upstairs

[Asal Mor]

Yeah he has to expect criticism as a coach, more than ever in the Twitter age. I haven't seen his comments but if he was complaining that the reaction was over the top I'd say he has a fair point. The reaction in Britain to Princess Diana's death, was less melodramatic than the reaction here to O'Driscoll being dropped. Gatland got the result - job done. It's not his concern to worry about O'Driscoll's legacy.

[INDIANA]

Yeah he has to expect criticism as a coach, more than ever in the Twitter age. I haven't seen his comments but if he was complaining that the reaction was over the top I'd say he has a fair point. The reaction in Britain to Princess Diana's death, was less melodramatic than the reaction here to O'Driscoll being dropped. Gatland got the result - job done. It's not his concern to worry about O'Driscoll's legacy.

its not but if he brought the team announcement forward a day then he must have been expecting some sort of a fallout. No point complaining afterwards. As I said he created the problem by bringing the best centre in the modern era on tour when he never had any intention of using him.

should have had the row 6 weeks ago. If he didn't expect a fallout he's a desperately naive individual

[Asal Mor]

Yeah he has to expect criticism as a coach, more than ever in the Twitter age. I haven't seen his comments but if he was complaining that the reaction was over the top I'd say he has a fair point. The reaction in Britain to Princess Diana's death, was less melodramatic than the reaction here to O'Driscoll being dropped. Gatland got the result - job done. It's not his concern to worry about O'Driscoll's legacy.

its not but if he brought the team announcement forward a day then he must have been expecting some sort of a fallout. No point complaining afterwards. As I said he created the problem by bringing the best centre in the modern era on tour when he never had any intention of using him.

should have had the row 6 weeks ago. If he didn't expect a fallout he's a desperately naive individual

He played 2 of the 3  tests and if he had shown in either of those games that he was still capable of his former brilliance he'd surely have played all 3. Sorry Indiana but I'm with Gatland on this one. Anyway I want  to try and listen to the Laois minor hurlers hopefully making history. Best of luck in the senior final. May the best team win (and go on to beat the Cats, please God).

[Wildweasel74]

the reality is thats style of play used in the last test would have been lambs to the slaughter to a fearsome all black team who would have hammered the lions up front, and would have run rings round the big but slow backs. They would put 20+ points on this team pulling up!!!

[muppet]

I think a lot of the arguments are missing the very simple point.

It came down to a call between Davies and O'Driscoll.

One is a decent international centre. The other is a legend of the game, with one thing missing from his glittering CV that was possibly about to be resolved.

A non-emotive analysis of the two suggested it was a close call. Defensively O'Driscoll is still better despite his age, while offensively Gatland must have felt the reverse applied which is certainly debatable. O'Driscoll would be ahead on leadership and experience and even for his age, still has the X-factor that Davies does not have.

In Davies favour was his partner Roberts was nailed on and he had more experience with him, and regardless of what anyone thinks there appeared to be a serious favouring of Welsh players. That is not as bad it might sound, it is perfectly natural in tight calls for a manager to go with the tried and trusted.

In conclusion, the Irish, the romantics, those looking for a stick to beat Gatland and those who love the history of the game wanted BOD. The Welsh wanted Davies. There were reasonable arguments for both and to be fair the way the game went it didn't justify either argument.

So while I don't believe Gatland was 'vindicated' by the result, he was entitled to make the call and it wasn't bad a call as it was made out to be.

[Asal Mor]

I think a lot of the arguments are missing the very simple point.

It came down to a call between Davies and O'Driscoll.

One is a decent international centre. The other is a legend of the game, with one thing missing from his glittering CV that was possibly about to be resolved.

A non-emotive analysis of the two suggested it was a close call. Defensively O'Driscoll is still better despite his age, while offensively Gatland must have felt the reverse applied which is certainly debatable. O'Driscoll would be ahead on leadership and experience and even for his age, still has the X-factor that Davies does not have.

In Davies favour was his partner Roberts was nailed on and he had more experience with him, and regardless of what anyone thinks there appeared to be a serious favouring of Welsh players. That is not as bad it might sound, it is perfectly natural in tight calls for a manager to go with the tried and trusted.

In conclusion, the Irish, the romantics, those looking for a stick to beat Gatland and those who love the history of the game wanted BOD. The Welsh wanted Davies. There were reasonable arguments for both and to be fair the way the game went it didn't justify either argument.

So while I don't believe Gatland was 'vindicated' by the result, he was entitled to make the call and it wasn't bad a call as it was made out to be.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that Muppet, but I think the coach is always vindicated by a win*.

*As long as the win is not achieved by diving, purposely injuring the opposition's best player or chewing on a fake blood capsule.

[INDIANA]

I think a lot of the arguments are missing the very simple point.

It came down to a call between Davies and O'Driscoll.

One is a decent international centre. The other is a legend of the game, with one thing missing from his glittering CV that was possibly about to be resolved.

A non-emotive analysis of the two suggested it was a close call. Defensively O'Driscoll is still better despite his age, while offensively Gatland must have felt the reverse applied which is certainly debatable. O'Driscoll would be ahead on leadership and experience and even for his age, still has the X-factor that Davies does not have.

In Davies favour was his partner Roberts was nailed on and he had more experience with him, and regardless of what anyone thinks there appeared to be a serious favouring of Welsh players. That is not as bad it might sound, it is perfectly natural in tight calls for a manager to go with the tried and trusted.

In conclusion, the Irish, the romantics, those looking for a stick to beat Gatland and those who love the history of the game wanted BOD. The Welsh wanted Davies. There were reasonable arguments for both and to be fair the way the game went it didn't justify either argument.

So while I don't believe Gatland was 'vindicated' by the result, he was entitled to make the call and it wasn't bad a call as it was made out to be.

it didnt really though. He was never in the frame lads. He was 4th choice centre so I'll again ask the question why was he brought?

I've no sympathy for Gatty because he has to have known the fallout was likely to be seismic if and when Drico wasn't picked.

Gatland should  have simply said to BOD beforehand if I pick a Test team tomorrow you're not in it. Do you still want to go as a mid-weeker?

We can go on about all players being the same etc. We all know that isn't true. Every team sport in the world has its icons who have a certain status. Thats life. And in my view Gatland made his own bed.

As regards the merits of the players. Davies did nothing yesterday BOD can't do.

[Dinny Breen]

The Corporate Partners would have made overtures to ensure BOD traveled, same way as Johnny Wilkinson was close to going.

The Lions means a lot to the players who have toured as a Lion but as someone who adores Irish rugby I find it very hard to identify with it and while I watched the games I felt nothing emotionally.

Money talks and the Lions is a massive revenue generator for the Big 3, Matt Williams was stating yesterday how the Tour has cleared ARU of all it's debts and they're now on a sound financial footing going forward.  In saying all that I'd imagine a tour is some craic for the supporters.