Explosion at Boston Marathon

[Tony Baloney]

I have been following most of this story on the news over the past 12 hours, as I have not been near the internet. However, one thing that is very clear, the Boston incident has been top news steadily for days now, and the Waco explosion is way down the list. 14 people are dead there, and it is 3rd or 4th in the news reporting.

I disagree. The Waco story was wall to wall yesterday afternoon 12PST when I was in a department store making a rather lengthy purchase. For a whole hour, it was all Waco. Overnight in Boston there have been major developments that have grown/changed/modified the story.

Is there any basis for surprise at this? Or indignation? To suggest Waco is way down the list is I think pushing an agenda that doesn't really exist (unless one's looking very very hard for it).

I was speaking in terms of the news here Puck. Today on BBC it is hardly even mentioned, with little to no interviews of people who survived. I aint pushing any agenda, just pointing out how a major explosion with 5 times the loss of life over Boston is pushed way down the list.

But that was an industrial accident. Happens all over the world every month and is generally accepted as an inevitable, if regrettable, part of modern life, same as car accidents and pollution. On the other hand, major international cities are not shut down by the police every day to accommodate a manhunt for a kid who just bombed a marathon. There is a hierarchy to newsworthiness.

+1.

This is why the surfing dog is at the end of the news and not the start.

[gallsman]

I find myself in the shocking position of agreeing with Ramzan Kadyrov - the two suspects have apparently/supposedly/allegedly lived in the States for a decade or more. Looking to apportion blame on the Chechen nation and people is incredibly naive and smacks of (perhaps justifiably so) fear-addled but narrow minded morons searching for a scapegoat with a beard who prays to Allah.

[Carmen Stateside]

This is a very strange incident.  Hard to believe how the younger lad got away last night never mind still evading the large search party! I personally think he is dead already although they are looking for a car or two cars, first it was a green Honda, now I see it is a grey car they are looking.  The boys father seems certain they were set up.

[ballinaman]

Saw the picture of the dead brother there...gruesome 

[Minder]

Saw the picture of the dead brother there...gruesome 

##########GRAPHIC PHOTOS IN LINK###########

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c0e_1366394274

[Eamonnca1]

Remember the 2011 Norway attacks?  Everyone immediately assumed it was Islamic extremists. They were shocked when they realised it was a far right-wing anti-Islamic extremist.

This is a damn peculiar case all right, I'm starting to regret jumping to the conclusion that it was Islamists. It's by no means clear what the hell these weirdos were trying to achieve.

[laoislad]

What's story with those scanners, how are they not scrambled?

AP sources identify the surviving Boston bomber as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19. The man is said to be from Russia's south, not far from the Chechen Republic.

The man reportedly lived in Turkey before arriving legally in the US about a year ago.

The name is listed among the recipients of Cambridge scholarships in 2011.

The second suspect is said to be his brother.

An NBC report claims the two immigrated at least two years ago. Both brothers are said to have Massachusetts drivers' licenses.

Both brothers are said to have Massachusetts drivers' licenses.

Apparently the FBI and other agencies have theirs blocked or the like but this technology is expensive, so alot of the normal emergencies services ie Police, Fire, Ambulance don't bother and just get on with it.

A simple search on TuneIn has them all listed.

I can't connect to these scanners at all, have they been taken off air?

[Carmen Stateside]

Boston police scanner was taken down at the request of the Boston police.

[Carmen Stateside]

So it seems it was wrong place at wrong time  for them both at the 7-11.  Was someone else that was robbing the store.  The college cop killing is still being blamed on them. Wouldn't be so sure now.

[ballinaman]

CNN news reporters are hilarious, talking some amount of shite. Like something out of family guy.

They sound like they are getting their excuses in now for when the shoot him. "Imagine the fear the officers must have searching for him, knowing that his older brother may have had an explosive device on his body" " The real fear now is that he'll try to take more people down with him"

Reporter with grey hair,beard and glasses, ballix!

[Carmen Stateside]

Reported gunfire in Watertown, could this be it?

[ONeill]

Ha!

[give her dixie]

There are so many conspiracy stories going around over the past few days, and to be honest I have taken most of them with a pinch of salt. However, something is beginning to stink in this case, and the boys family are saying that they have been under control of the FBI for a while.

Now if you think the FBI are not capable of such a thing, the following article from a while back in the New York Times is well worth a read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0

Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I.
By DAVID K. SHIPLER
Published: April 28, 2012

THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years — or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.

But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested.

When an Oregon college student, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, thought of using a car bomb to attack a festive Christmas-tree lighting ceremony in Portland, the F.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of "inert material," harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to make the van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving, with Mr. Mohamud in the passenger seat. To trigger the bomb the student punched a number into a cellphone and got no boom, only a bust.

This is legal, but is it legitimate? Without the F.B.I., would the culprits commit violence on their own? Is cultivating potential terrorists the best use of the manpower designed to find the real ones? Judging by their official answers, the F.B.I. and the Justice Department are sure of themselves — too sure, perhaps.

Carefully orchestrated sting operations usually hold up in court. Defendants invariably claim entrapment and almost always lose, because the law requires that they show no predisposition to commit the crime, even when induced by government agents. To underscore their predisposition, many suspects are "warned about the seriousness of their plots and given opportunities to back out," said Dean Boyd, a Justice Department spokesman. But not always, recorded conversations show. Sometimes they are coaxed to continue.

Undercover operations, long practiced by the F.B.I., have become a mainstay of counterterrorism, and they have changed in response to the post-9/11 focus on prevention. "Prior to 9/11 it would be very unusual for the F.B.I. to present a crime opportunity that wasn't in the scope of the activities that a person was already involved in," said Mike German of the American Civil Liberties Union, a lawyer and former F.B.I. agent who infiltrated white supremacist groups. An alleged drug dealer would be set up to sell drugs to an undercover agent, an arms trafficker to sell weapons. That still happens routinely, but less so in counterterrorism, and for good reason.

"There isn't a business of terrorism in the United States, thank God," a former federal prosecutor, David Raskin, explained.

"You're not going to be able to go to a street corner and find somebody who's already blown something up," he said. Therefore, the usual goal is not "to find somebody who's already engaged in terrorism but find somebody who would jump at the opportunity if a real terrorist showed up in town."

And that's the gray area. Who is susceptible? Anyone who plays along with the agents, apparently. Once the snare is set, law enforcement sees no choice. "Ignoring such threats is not an option," Mr. Boyd argued, "given the possibility that the suspect could act alone at any time or find someone else willing to help him."

Typically, the stings initially target suspects for pure speech — comments to an informer outside a mosque, angry postings on Web sites, e-mails with radicals overseas — then woo them into relationships with informers, who are often convicted felons working in exchange for leniency, or with F.B.I. agents posing as members of Al Qaeda or other groups.

Some targets have previous involvement in more than idle talk: for example, Waad Ramadan Alwan, an Iraqi in Kentucky, whose fingerprints were found on an unexploded roadside bomb near Bayji, Iraq, and Raja Khan of Chicago, who had sent funds to an Al Qaeda leader in Pakistan.

But others seem ambivalent, incompetent and adrift, like hapless wannabes looking for a cause that the informer or undercover agent skillfully helps them find. Take the Stinger missile defendant James Cromitie, a low-level drug dealer with a criminal record that included no violence or hate crime, despite his rants against Jews. "He was searching for answers within his Islamic faith," said his lawyer, Clinton W. Calhoun III, who has appealed his conviction. "And this informant, I think, twisted that search in a really pretty awful way, sort of misdirected Cromitie in his search and turned him towards violence."

THE informer, Shahed Hussain, had been charged with fraud, but avoided prison and deportation by working undercover in another investigation. He was being paid by the F.B.I. to pose as a wealthy Pakistani with ties to Jaish-e-Mohammed, a terrorist group that Mr. Cromitie apparently had never heard of before they met by chance in the parking lot of a mosque.

"Brother, did you ever try to do anything for the cause of Islam?" Mr. Hussain asked at one point.

"O.K., brother," Mr. Cromitie replied warily, "where you going with this, brother?"

Two days later, the informer told him, "Allah has more work for you to do," and added, "Revelation is going to come in your dreams that you have to do this thing, O.K.?" About 15 minutes later, Mr. Hussain proposed the idea of using missiles, saying he could get them in a container from China. Mr. Cromitie laughed.

Reading hundreds of pages of transcripts of the recorded conversations is like looking at the inkblots of a Rorschach test. Patterns of willingness and hesitation overlap and merge. "I don't want anyone to get hurt," Mr. Cromitie said, and then explained that he meant women and children. "I don't care if it's a whole synagogue of men." It took 11 months of meandering discussion and a promise of $250,000 to lead him, with three co-conspirators he recruited, to plant fake bombs at two Riverdale synagogues.

"Only the government could have made a 'terrorist' out of Mr. Cromitie, whose buffoonery is positively Shakespearean in its scope," said Judge Colleen McMahon, sentencing him to 25 years. She branded it a "fantasy terror operation" but called his attempt "beyond despicable" and rejected his claim of entrapment.

The judge's statement was unusual, but Mr. Cromitie's characteristics were not. His incompetence and ambivalence could be found among other aspiring terrorists whose grandiose plans were nurtured by law enforcement. They included men who wanted to attack fuel lines at Kennedy International Airport; destroy the Sears Tower (now Willis Tower) in Chicago; carry out a suicide bombing near Tampa Bay, Fla., and bomb subways in New York and Washington. Of the 22 most frightening plans for attacks since 9/11 on American soil, 14 were developed in sting operations.

Another New York City subway plot, which recently went to trial, needed no help from government. Nor did a bombing attempt in Times Square, the abortive underwear bombing in a jetliner over Detroit, a planned attack on Fort Dix, N.J., and several smaller efforts. Some threats are real, others less so. In terrorism, it's not easy to tell the difference.

[ballinaman]

Body reported to have been found in a backyard in Watertown.....

So when was he killed will be the next question!

Edit: may not be dead....yet!

[ONeill]

Imagine if this level of coverage existed during the troubles.