Explosion at Boston Marathon

[seafoid]

It seems to me that an American life is valued more than any other nationality in the world, judging the media and people's reactions (which are driven by the media).

Of course this is an awful tragedy, but it is not on our doorstep as some people have being saying.  Iraq/Afghanistan are actually closer to here than the US.

I think people are right to compare other bombings etc to highlight this point.

Iraq/Afghanistan is closer to here than the US? Well maybe you were talking geographically, I have to assume you are certainly not talking culturally. If you were, then in either instance you are wrong. By about 700 miles and a vast cultural difference.

Like it or not, Ireland and the UK are part of a western culture, strongly influenced by America. There was ginormous coverage of the massacre in Norway, the Cumbria shooting, the Connecticut massacre. It certainly isn't a case of American life being worth more in the eyes of the media. The media coverage and public reaction stems from the infrequency and seemingly random nature of these events, in our Western world.

American gun culture is so rampant that we are starting to become desensitized to the news stories, and it only really grabs the nation when it's a classroom of kindergartners rather than a movie theatre full of adults. The frequency of the events starts to dilute the media attention and public outcry that accompanies them. To highlight the point - here are a list of the bombings that Iraq has had to deal with in 2012.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/09/us-iraq-violence-timeline-idUSBRE8880K720120909.

Yesterdays attacks were awful. It was, however, the first time someone blew up the Boston Marathon, and it was also the latest in a long line of attacks by Iraquis, on Iraquis. Is it really reasonable to compare one to the other in order to make a political point?

A lot of work goes into making sure we don't identify with dead brown people. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

Very occasionally someone famous will think about the lunacy 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQS9ZOpB70

and it is hard to avoid the hypocrisy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/boston-marathon-explosions-notes-reactions

[Puckoon]

What are you talking about? It's not work, cultural difference is what makes the world the world. It's what makes Argentina unique from Aughabrack.

Have the decency to tell it how it is - your reaction on this thread, the guardian opinon piece are all as equally predictable and repeatable as any reaction or opinion they criticise.

[seafoid]

What are you talking about? It's not work, cultural difference is what makes the world the world. It's what makes Argentina unique from Aughabrack.

Have the decency to tell it how it is - your reaction on this thread, the guardian opinon piece are all as equally predictable and repeatable as any reaction or opinion they criticise.

Whatever, Puck. It's no accident that the media focus on certain issues to the exclusion of others.
The US is also a very violent society.  Let's just hope that the reaction is measured. Not like 911.

I don't want to see any more grunts losing their testicles for nothing. 

[Puckoon]

Whatever, Seafoid.

Your next door neighbour dies in a car crash. Does it influence you the exact same as a fatal car crash in France? There is no doubt, nor should there be that media is tailored to the population. What did the daily's lead with in Iraq this morning? The bomb in Boston, or the one in Iraq? No brainer. If you're looking for impartiality I dont know what to tell you. It's foolish and naive. The world sucks. It's getting worse by the day and it's never going to get better.

I don't want to see any more grunts losing their testicles for nothing. 

You're tellin porkies.

[seafoid]

Whatever, Seafoid.

Your next door neighbour dies in a car crash. Does it influence you the exact same as a fatal car crash in France? There is no doubt, nor should there be that media is tailored to the population. What did the daily's lead with in Iraq this morning? The bomb in Boston, or the one in Iraq? No brainer. If you're looking for impartiality I dont know what to tell you. It's foolish and naive. The world sucks. It's getting worse by the day and it's never going to get better.

I don't want to see any more grunts losing their testicles for nothing. 

You're tellin porkies.

Did you see that video from Huff Post? It was one of the saddest things I have seen in a long time.
The grunts mostly have no choice. They don't decide on who to fight . 

I wouldn't wish his fate on any man especially as he hadn't even started a family.
And his poor wife. And the Army won't even pay for IVF.

[Puckoon]

All true, no arugments about that, I saw it both times you posted it. It's a nice big juicy stick for the US bashing though, isn't it?

[Mike Sheehy]

What are you talking about? It's not work, cultural difference is what makes the world the world. It's what makes Argentina unique from Aughabrack.

Have the decency to tell it how it is - your reaction on this thread, the guardian opinon piece are all as equally predictable and repeatable as any reaction or opinion they criticise.

Whatever, Puck. It's no accident that the media focus on certain issues to the exclusion of others.
The US is also a very violent society.  Let's just hope that the reaction is measured. Not like 911.

I don't want to see any more grunts losing their testicles for nothing.

I think one of the dead is Jewish. That must be considered a result for you ?  American and Jewish 

[stew]

What are you talking about? It's not work, cultural difference is what makes the world the world. It's what makes Argentina unique from Aughabrack.

Have the decency to tell it how it is - your reaction on this thread, the guardian opinon piece are all as equally predictable and repeatable as any reaction or opinion they criticise.

Whatever, Puck. It's no accident that the media focus on certain issues to the exclusion of others.
The US is also a very violent society.  Let's just hope that the reaction is measured. Not like 911.

I don't want to see any more grunts losing their testicles for nothing.

I think one of the dead is Jewish. That must be considered a result for you ?  American and Jewish 

Mike are you gay for a Jew guy???

3 people died, who gives a flying feck what faith they followed!

[Mike Sheehy]

What are you talking about? It's not work, cultural difference is what makes the world the world. It's what makes Argentina unique from Aughabrack.

Have the decency to tell it how it is - your reaction on this thread, the guardian opinon piece are all as equally predictable and repeatable as any reaction or opinion they criticise.

Whatever, Puck. It's no accident that the media focus on certain issues to the exclusion of others.
The US is also a very violent society.  Let's just hope that the reaction is measured. Not like 911.

I don't want to see any more grunts losing their testicles for nothing.

I think one of the dead is Jewish. That must be considered a result for you ?  American and Jewish 

Mike are you gay for a Jew guy???

3 people died, who gives a flying feck what faith they followed!

It is clear what is going on in this thread. The schadenfraude is undeniable. Seafoid is an known anti-semite and hates Americans with
a passion. I think it is fundamentally wrong to allow him to indulge his race hatreds behind the cloak simplistic whataboutery. If somebody sets off a bomb in Iraq it does not justify killing somebody in Boston.

[theskull1]

I think people are just trying to expose our society's mental blind spot when it comes to major tragedies. The media information flow has a lot to do with it but it doesn't mean its not there.

Next to no one thought anything worth talking about the victims of the Iraq bombing the other day but we are almost forced into sympathizing with the Boston victims as the news media feeds us constantly.

Iives ruined in both incidents....is it right to only ponder one I think is the argument. Don't get annoyed about the ugly truth being shown

[theticklemister]

Lads if the media could put a picture or face of all the dead the americans and british killed in iraq and afghanisatan that hopefully people's views would change.

[seafoid]

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2013/apr/16/boston-bombing-unfinished-race/

[seafoid]

http://www.progressive.org/be-cautious-in-wake-of-boston-marathon-bombing

Let's Be Cautious in Wake of Boston Marathon Bombings

By Matthew Rothschild, April 15, 2013

What a horrific tragedy in Boston. The scenes of the carnage are almost unbearable to watch, let alone re-watch. The suffering of the victims—at least three people dead, and more than 175 wounded—and their families is too much even to contemplate. And the nihilism of the attackers, the wanton destruction of innocent lives, is utterly incomprehensible.

But before we leap to conclusions about who did these heinous deeds, we need to be cautious and wait for the evidence to come in.
Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis, understandably under enormous pressure, nonetheless was not helpful when he answered a question about whether the explosions were the result of a terrorist attack.

"We're not being definitive, but you can reach your own conclusions," he told reporters at a press conference.There is no good purpose served by speculation.

And we need to be extremely cautious about taking measures that might curtail our civil liberties in the wake of these bombings.

Our civil liberties have already taken a big enough hit in the post-9/ll era.

In this moment of horror, let us take a couple of deep breaths. Let's let law enforcement figure out who the culprits are and how they managed to wreak their havoc, and let's let them apprehend the culprits.

If we've learned anything after the Oklahoma City bombing and after 9/11, it is that speculation can lead us down the wrong path, and that reacting rashly can have deadly consequences for this country.


One last point, which I didn't put in my posting because I wrote it before President Obama spoke. When he said the culprits will "feel the full weight of justice," I hope he meant that law enforcement will apprehend them and bring them to trial, and not that he will bump them off. Like George W. Bush, Obama has a bad habit of using the word "justice" when his Administration rubs someone out with a drone strike or in the attack on bin Laden.

[J70]

I think people are just trying to expose our society's mental blind spot when it comes to major tragedies. The media information flow has a lot to do with it but it doesn't mean its not there.

Next to no one thought anything worth talking about the victims of the Iraq bombing the other day but we are almost forced into sympathizing with the Boston victims as the news media feeds us constantly.

Iives ruined in both incidents....is it right to only ponder one I think is the argument. Don't get annoyed about the ugly truth being shown

But we get this hand wringing every time something like this happens. Another day, another bombing in Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria. People eventually tune out due to the relentlessness. Same as back during the Troubles. Or Israel-Palestine. You can't spend all your time in a state of despair over every atrocity. And its not all about ethnicity or race and not caring because it happens in some other place. Newtown aside, for obvious reasons, how much attention does the average mass killing in the US get now? People shrug and move on, because they feel like its just an everyday occurrence and nothing will ever be done to deal with it.

[seafoid]

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/after-the-boston-attack-the-terrible-truth-about-terrorism.premium-1.515957

After the Boston attack: The terrible truth about terrorism

Whatever the final truth about the Boston bombing will turn out to be, it is time to realize a simple, and terrible truth about terrorism: It is there to stay.

By Carlo Strenger | Apr.17, 2013 | 12:44 PM | 1

First my heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims of the Boston Marathon terror attack, and my best wishes for convalescence to the wounded.  As many commentators have written already, unfortunately in Israel we have had so much experience with terror attacks that we have developed many ways to cope with it psychologically, practically, in terms of security measures and medically. But the U.S. has already shown its resilience in the face of terror, and I am sure that Boston, a city I cherish, will recover its spirits quickly.

For the time being, nobody knows whether international (presumably jihadist) or domestic (presumably white supremacist) individuals or group perpetrated the Boston attack, even though first indications seem to favor the hypothesis of a domestic attack.

Whatever the final truth will turn out to be, it is time to realize a simple, and terrible truth about terrorism: It is here to stay.

This statement is neither meant to be defeatist, or to argue that we should not do everything in our power to prevent it. It is to say that in the era of global communication networks there will always be individuals or groups who have some grievance they try to address by dramatic acts of destruction that sow fear, confusion, or, in brief: Terror. Legal scholar and strategist Philip Bobbit has argued convincingly that terrorism is the form of war that will be prevalent in the twenty first century. If we do not realize that terrorism will never be eradicated completely, we are bound to make terrible mistakes in fighting it; mistakes that undermine the freedom of our societies, and will do little to actually lower the danger of further terrorism.

Let me summarize a few lessons I have learned in almost a decade of cooperating with leading terrorism researchers in the World Federation of Scientists. First and foremost I learned that terrorism comes in many shapes and variations. Some forms of terrorism are asymmetrical warfare trying to achieve specific goals like self-determination for the Basques, Chechnya or Palestine.

Others have much less clearly-defined goals, and are governed by what historian and psychoanalyst Charles Strozier has called the apocalyptic mindset: The Baader-Meinhoff group in Germany wanted nothing less but to destabilize the German state. White supremacists in the U.S. want nothing less but to turn the U.S. into a "pure" white society. Some Islamists want nothing but less but the revival of the caliphate and Islamic domination of either the whole Middle East or the world as a whole. And some Jewish Messianic groups want nothing less than building the Third Temple in Jerusalem, and an Israel ruled by Biblical Law.

Because terrorism is motivated and generated by very different factors, there is no such thing as a "war on terror" any more than there is such a thing as "the war on illnesses." AIDS needs very different cures and preventions than cancer or flu-pandemics. Similarly, each form of terrorism needs to be studied and fought on its own terms.

The second thing I learned is that there are two basic knee-jerk reactions to terrorism, and that both are wrong in their exclusive emphasis on one element.

Conservatives say, "Terrorists are evil. Never talk to them, only punishment and superior force will defeat terrorism." Liberals say, "Terrorists are human beings. You need to understand their motivations, mostly born out of frustration, perceived injustice and humiliation, and to address their grievances."

Both these knee-jerk reactions have very partial truth and effectiveness. The conservative reaction embodied in George W. Bush's conception of the War on Terror does not realize that most of today's global terror networks cannot as such be defeated, because, unlike armies, they are often not organized as hierarchical chains of commands. Al-Qaida is an organization; but most of all it is a state of mind that pulsates through the Islamic world, primarily in the Internet. The groups that perpetrated 9/11, 7/7 in London and the Madrid bombings were not recruited and trained by a central organization, but organized spontaneously without connection to a central command. This is why killing terrorist leaders will always have limited effectiveness: As long as the jihadist state of mind is growing in the Islamic world, new terror groups will emerge time and again, as former CIA officer and psychiatrist Marc Sageman has shown.

The liberal reaction assumes that the source of all terrorism is to be found in wrongdoings by the West ranging from colonialism to U.S. interference in many areas of the world. But it does not take into account that, in many cases, the grievances, perceived humiliations and injustices cannot be addressed directly. Many of the youngsters who gravitate towards terror networks are incensed by the humiliating fact that much of the Islamic world is way behind the developed world economically, militarily and culturally. Their frustration is aggravated by an enormous youth-bulge in much of the Islamic world. Without any viable hope for a fruitful life, they try to regain dignity and the sense of living a meaningful life by committing to the jihadist cause – a process documented in detail by anthropologist Scott Atran.

The problem with the liberal response is that no form of global social work can address all of these grievances. Islamic societies often experience well-meaning interventions trying to help them to modernize as just another humiliation, and these attempts often cannot cope with these societies' enormous internal complexities. The colossal failures of the U.S. in promoting state building in Afghanistan and Iraq show that the West and the liberal position does not take into account that certain grievances cannot be addressed by any realistic policies: America will not become purely white; the Caliphate will not be reinstated; and the Third Temple will not come from heaven in the Messianic age.

The conclusion from all this is that none of us will ever have a final solution for terrorism. Conservatives are right in saying that we must be vigilant and that, in many cases, there is no way around using violence in combating terrorism. But they are wrong if they think that if you just use enough power, you'll get rid of it. Liberals are right that if we don't try to understand and address the root-causes of terrorism, the War on Terror is bound to generate even more terrorist organizations and acts. But they are wrong in thinking that if we just show enough empathy for terrorists' motivations, they will all become law-abiding citizens.

We would all like terrorism to disappear, but this is wishful thinking. There is no alternative to keeping a clear and cool mind, even in the face of the horror perpetrated by terrorist acts. If we lose our minds, terrorism wins.