Best hurling league structures?

[AZOffaly]

In fairness to him, he was saying that they'd be able to carry bigger panels and rest lads that needed it. Unsaid was the assumption that they could play the sisters of mercy seconds against the likes of fecking Offaly and Wexford and beat them.

[johnneycool]

In fairness to him, he was saying that they'd be able to carry bigger panels and rest lads that needed it. Unsaid was the assumption that they could play the sisters of mercy seconds against the likes of fecking Offaly and Wexford and beat them.

Aye but the fans won't turn up with their hang sangwiches and flash of tae to watch the sisters of mercy.

There'll be plenty of friendlies and pitch openings for the peripheral members of the squads to get a run out.

[theticklemister]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that teams only get 5 matches???

How can you develop a good squad and let players get games when you only have 5 games? Would managers not be afraid to experiment as 2 defeats could leave them relegated?

Surly fringe players must be cursing this system as they get less time to show their stuff.

[Rossfan]

Even though it was an exciting finish a League with only 5 games is hardly a League at all.
Also it means that many county teams will only play 7 real competitive games all year.
Hardly the way to promote hurling is it?
A 5 game NHL might be ok if there was a round robin element in the Championship but with KO championships it's too short.

[Asal Mor]

I'd say better to have 5 properly competitive league games than 7 or 8 harmless ones. Does anyone on here honestly think that the league was better a few years ago?

[Eamonnca1]

I don't think I've ever heard a leading hurling manager argue for anything that would benefit anybody other than themselves or the top hurling counties. IC hurling and football should be cutthroat and have little if anything to do with development, that's what club, schools, uni and minor and U21 IC are for.

There's a lot of truth in that. Some people talk about tinkering with the format of intercounty competitions as if that's going to even out the disparity in standards. It won't. Only hard work on the ground to develop the game at grass roots level is going to fix the problem. We have to do it the hard way.

[fearglasmor]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that teams only get 5 matches???

How can you develop a good squad and let players get games when you only have 5 games? Would managers not be afraid to experiment as 2 defeats could leave them relegated?

Surly fringe players must be cursing this system as they get less time to show their stuff.

Id rather see the best players playing in every league game and the fact that every game matters encourages this. It sholdnt be a function of the league to be a development competition. What concerns me more is the fact pointed out today by Martin Breheny that Offaly and maybe Wexford will only have two more games between now and next February. To condemn any county to play only winter hurling is no way to improve standards. I am thinking with the success of Coolderry and K/K that maybe Offaly would be better withdrawing from inter county hurling and let the county board put all its resources into developing clubs. A sort of back to the future scenario.

[johnneycool]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that teams only get 5 matches???

How can you develop a good squad and let players get games when you only have 5 games? Would managers not be afraid to experiment as 2 defeats could leave them relegated?

Surly fringe players must be cursing this system as they get less time to show their stuff.

Id rather see the best players playing in every league game and the fact that every game matters encourages this. It sholdnt be a function of the league to be a development competition. What concerns me more is the fact pointed out today by Martin Breheny that Offaly and maybe Wexford will only have two more games between now and next February. To condemn any county to play only winter hurling is no way to improve standards. I am thinking with the success of Coolderry and K/K that maybe Offaly would be better withdrawing from inter county hurling and let the county board put all its resources into developing clubs. A sort of back to the future scenario.

What's the answer?

Back to a 8 team Div1, Div2, Div3 etc. with 7 games each started in March through to May or June, top two final end off. Then straight into the Leinster and Munster championships, Christy Ring etc then back door stuff in July?

What 4 teams are you dropping out of the current Div1a and b? How will that help them?

What does Kevin Ryan and John Meyler think of the current set up? We know what Eamon O'Shea thinks, what about the other managers who's teams are developing against better opposition and aren't taking the expected big tankings and are competitive, do we shaft them?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Wherever you draw the line, at 6, 8 or 20 teams, those two teams who fall just below that line are going to be most aggrieved.

So, a six team Div 1 sees Limerick, Dublin & probably Clare voice objections.  A six team division 2 currently excludes Laois & Westmeath.  Extend Div 1 to eight counties and Offaly & Wexford will be heard, but Antrim's & Carlow's place in division 2 would be secured.

So any format will not please everyone.  So the GAA solution to the GAA problem is to change the format every couple of years.

The biggest problem for me is that the regular league season ended before March was out and the clocks went forward.  This is to suit the blue-bloods who can proceed with their quarter-finals and semi-finals of a competition that no-one really wants to win (except probably Dublin).  And feck everyone else.  Martin Breheny kinda touched on this yesterday but lacked the cop-on to develop the point.

How about the top two teams contest the League Final, forget quarter-finals and semi-finals, and play the regular series of matches fortnightly between mid February (when the NHL started anyway) and mid April.  That will give counties a chance to play club matches on the spare weekends.  For instance, the U21 championship is currently in full swing here in Offaly.  And with the NHL matches being played weekly, fellas who are subs on the couty teams get to play no matches at all.

Or how about playing the NHL matches on Saturdays, and fellas who play less than 35 minutes being released to play with their clubs on the Sunday?

[fearglasmor]

One of the biggest problems the GAA now has is the influence that commercial realities has on any decision making. This was not always the way but in the drive for professional standards across the association there has to be a price to pay.
Heres a novel idea, how about the league being a league and whoever is on top after all the games wins.
Have a 12 team division, play the league over the full season March to Sept alongside the championship.
Sure, teams will take hammerings but they will also target the teams they can take on and you will have title and relegation battles as you do in any league in any sport.
Remove the power of intercounty managers to bar players lining out with their clubs, or else disentangle club and county completely and players have to declare each season for one or the other, at least the club competitions can proceed unhindered.
The problem like everything else in this country is that everyone wants everything and what you end up with is compromises that deliver nothing.
Take a stand make a radical change. Is feidir linn.   

[Toxicity234]

Hi Everyone,
I'm new on this site. So I should tell you something about myself.

I'm 34 from Drumcullen in Offaly and I have being living in Dublin for 17 years but not for much longer moving to Wicklow very soon.

I normally go to the Offaly Clubs and County games and if Offaly are not playing I head to the Dublin games. so I have watched both 1a and 1b league games over the last few years.

I have being thinking about the league  set up.  The Set up at the moment if not helping anyone. The Top teams are not getting enough game.  for the up and coming team every game is do or die. For teams trying to breaking into the big time i.e. Carlow, Westmeath are getting one year playing good teams, If they don't survive Its a long year till you have another shot. No second year to continuing learning.


So I came up with this mad idea of seed the league. 

Odd and even going only by the league tables for this year.

So this would leave next year league A1 or A2

1a Tipperary                                      2a Kilkenny
3a Galway                                         4aWaterford
5a Clare                                            6a Cork
1b Dublin                                          2b Limerick
3b Offaly                                           4b Wexford
5b Antrim                                          6b Carlow
1c Laois                                            2c Westmeath
3c Kerry                                            4c Derry


With 7 or 8 teams in league A1 and A2.

With the top 4 teams in each division playing in a quarter-finals. Or for a shorter league the top 2 into a semi-final.

With the loser of the semi playing each other for the seeding positions 3 and 4 in the league.   

With the bottom team in each division playing in a regulation play off.

With each team below the top two playing a game against the same position team in the opposite division for their seeding for the following year. ( you have to adjust this if you played q-f)

So for next year the seeding would work as follows:

League Champion Seeded No.1,  and into Division A1
Runner up Seeded No.2, And Into Division A2
Semi Final Loser game: Winner No.3 and into Division A1
Semi Final Winner game: Loser No. 4. And Into Division A2
P 3 team in A1 vs. P 3 team in A2 Winner:  Seeding 5 and into Division A1
P 3 team in A1 vs. P 3 team in A2 Loser: Seeding 6 And Into Division A2
And so on:


The advantage of this system would be that ever team in the league would have 3 games that they think that they can win and no matter where you ended up in the table you get an extra competitive game, against a team of equal strength.

The top two in each group would have 9 games and everyone else would have 8.

you could play the nine game in the 15 weeks between the 1 Feb to the first or second week of May. Making it that teams are playing up until 3 or 4 weeks before the Championship not the 10 or 12  weeks some team have now.


The disadvantage is that you would get mismatch but it's better to have a mismatch than no match at all.   

The other disadvantage would be that the last game in the league for points could be a farce with team not trying in that game.  Or teams not trying for the last game so that they get a easier group for the following year. 

But even if this happen it still would give the top teams enough competitive game to keep them at their best. It would also give everyone else enough competitive game to improve and build a team.


Is this a idea crazy???  I know that games like Kerry vs. Tipp or Derry vs. Kilkenny won't be much fun for people.

But a Quarter final of: Tipperary vs. Limerick, Kilkenny vs. Dublin, Galway vs. Cork, Clare vs. Waterford played this week when the weather is improving would be nice to see. 
and the most important thing is that if you have one bad year it doesn't take you 2 or 3 to recovery from it.

[johnneycool]

why not shuffle 1A and 1B as they currently are and go with the quarter finals, semi-finals you suggest.  the bottom two in each section in a relegation decider?

Still think Westmeath, Kerry etc are well off the mark and would struggle badly against even mid table teams.

[Roashter]

What about keep with the 6-team divisions, except double the amount of games and play home & away.
There are a couple of major benefits
-players get a lot more matches which is something that all players are looking for  (rather than endless training)
-large increase in revenue for all county boards -which is badly needed.
-a much greater exposure for hurling

Each team would have 10 matches, with 5 home games. More hurlers would get a lot more game time as at moment with only 5 games, managers are reluctant to try out too many unknown players.

Start the leagues in February and run them for say 12 weeks with 2 break weekends in between. That will still leave enough time for a team to prepare for chanpionship.

Top 2 teams in each division play off in a league final, with team that finishes on top getting home advantage

Bottom 2 teams relegated from each division.

I definitely think we need 2 teams promoted/relegated as at moment it seems that teams are getting stuck say in division 1b with no realistic hope of promotion.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Steady on with the "large increase in revenue".  Hardly anyone goes to League matches as it is.  That's not going to change, whatever amount of changes are made to the format.  And whatever any proposed structure will produce, a crock of gold is not going to appear.

And the opposite of 'large increase in revenue' is 'large increase in cost' for the punter.  Is this going to happen?  I think not.

[Dag Dog]

Promote the top teams and get rid of these league finals which decide it.
It wasn't fair on Limerick this year, topping the table and still not getting promoted.