FRC proposals...black cards, marks etc

[Zulu]

But if you tackle properly you're fine. If you pull/hold my arm, which is often what tacklers do, then I'm both off balance and more limited in my ability to solo the ball as I've only one arm to control the ball. I think it is reasonable to allow the fouled player a bit of leeway to break free of the fouling player and play on. I agree though it is interpretative and will, as a result, be inconstantly applied but that is always going to be the case as long as we have humans reefing the games. I often hear people going on about how good rugby refs are but they interpret things differently too so consistency is beyond us. 

[blewuporstuffed]

The only issue i would have with the advantage rule is that already i have seen a couple of referees interpret  it as , when the advantage is being given , the player in possession can take as many steps as he likes.

The reason it may look like that is because the player has been allowed to shake off a player who's fouling him, so the referee allows 'advantage' old style and he can take the extra 4 steps each time he's been grappled at. Some referees blow for the foul and give nothing

but this is exactly my point, the fact that he is being fouled and the referee is playing the advantage shouldn't mean he can gain that advantage by commiting a foul himself.
He should be allowed to play on within the normal rules of the game, if he overcarries or whatever due to the original foul, the play should be taken back and the original free given, not let him play on with a free reign to do what he wants!

You are not reading my post, the bit in bold, many a time a player is given advantage if the he's being grappled at the referee in most cases were allowing the extra steps to break free of the tackle, now if he continues to do so the referee may blow or again allow more steps. Now no referee will allow a player to take more than 4/5 steps in a game on purpose.  Or give him a free reign to do what he wants, what county are you from? The referees must be terrible

But the foul prevents him from playing the ball legitimately so if you were to interpret as you are suggesting then every arm pull would result in a stoppage of play and a free. I think it is better to allow a player who is being fouled more steps within his advantage to keep the game flowing and prevent the fouler gaining an advantage by stopping play.

players already get away with far to many steps, the last thing we need is to start allowing more!
That would leave it pretty much impossible to tackle a player once the advantage is given as he doesnt have to play the ball at all!
Surely the normal rules must still apply whether an advantage rule is being applied or not.

The problem is that its all very subjective and this will lead to referees having their own interpretation of it and yet more inconsistency in the application of the rules

Is it fair to say you are a perfectionist and follow the rules religiously and never fall foul of them? When you watch a match you will have a view on it, someone standing on the otherside of the pitch supporting the other team will have a different view some parts will be the same, some incidents will be recalled differently, who's right?

I completely agree with you, which is what makes refereeing our games so difficult.
Thats why i think any rule change should make things more clear cut if possible, not up to the referees discretion
which can vary wildly.

It has become almost common place that 5-6 steps are allowed and when a player is bearing down on goal even more 8-10 at times!I would rather this was the type of rule taht was tightened up rather that introducing new ones!

[smort]

But if you tackle properly you're fine. If you pull/hold my arm, which is often what tacklers do, then I'm both off balance and more limited in my ability to solo the ball as I've only one arm to control the ball. I think it is reasonable to allow the fouled player a bit of leeway to break free of the fouling player and play on. I agree though it is interpretative and will, as a result, be inconstantly applied but that is always going to be the case as long as we have humans reefing the games. I often hear people going on about how good rugby refs are but they interpret things differently too so consistency is beyond us.

So thats why refs are inconsistent, they are reefing 

I agree almost entirely with what you have said zulu, a player can be off balance in a tackle and should be allowed a bit of leeway in regards steps when breaking away from the tackle. I think that is how it has been anyway.

[Milltown Row2]

The only issue i would have with the advantage rule is that already i have seen a couple of referees interpret  it as , when the advantage is being given , the player in possession can take as many steps as he likes.

The reason it may look like that is because the player has been allowed to shake off a player who's fouling him, so the referee allows 'advantage' old style and he can take the extra 4 steps each time he's been grappled at. Some referees blow for the foul and give nothing

but this is exactly my point, the fact that he is being fouled and the referee is playing the advantage shouldn't mean he can gain that advantage by commiting a foul himself.
He should be allowed to play on within the normal rules of the game, if he overcarries or whatever due to the original foul, the play should be taken back and the original free given, not let him play on with a free reign to do what he wants!

You are not reading my post, the bit in bold, many a time a player is given advantage if the he's being grappled at the referee in most cases were allowing the extra steps to break free of the tackle, now if he continues to do so the referee may blow or again allow more steps. Now no referee will allow a player to take more than 4/5 steps in a game on purpose.  Or give him a free reign to do what he wants, what county are you from? The referees must be terrible

But the foul prevents him from playing the ball legitimately so if you were to interpret as you are suggesting then every arm pull would result in a stoppage of play and a free. I think it is better to allow a player who is being fouled more steps within his advantage to keep the game flowing and prevent the fouler gaining an advantage by stopping play.

players already get away with far to many steps, the last thing we need is to start allowing more!
That would leave it pretty much impossible to tackle a player once the advantage is given as he doesnt have to play the ball at all!
Surely the normal rules must still apply whether an advantage rule is being applied or not.

The problem is that its all very subjective and this will lead to referees having their own interpretation of it and yet more inconsistency in the application of the rules

Is it fair to say you are a perfectionist and follow the rules religiously and never fall foul of them? When you watch a match you will have a view on it, someone standing on the otherside of the pitch supporting the other team will have a different view some parts will be the same, some incidents will be recalled differently, who's right?

I completely agree with you, which is what makes refereeing our games so difficult.
Thats why i think any rule change should make things more clear cut if possible, not up to the referees discretion
which can vary wildly.

It has become almost common place that 5-6 steps are allowed and when a player is bearing down on goal even more 8-10 at times!I would rather this was the type of rule taht was tightened up rather that introducing new ones!

As a player turned referee I fully understand the annoyance of being a defender and players taking (in your view) too many steps, I even went through the stage of shouting out the steps as he took them (was daft) but to no avail. I try and apply the rules as I would have liked them done when I was playing. The reality is that the rules/assessors/advisors all play a part in how it's done. If all referees rigidly stuck to the rules in every game I believe we would never have a game that would end up with 15 players each, there would be no managers on the line, as they would be serving bans all the time for abuse and eventually we'd have no games as people would play a different sport. It's not perfect It's Irish

[Zulu]

But if you tackle properly you're fine. If you pull/hold my arm, which is often what tacklers do, then I'm both off balance and more limited in my ability to solo the ball as I've only one arm to control the ball. I think it is reasonable to allow the fouled player a bit of leeway to break free of the fouling player and play on. I agree though it is interpretative and will, as a result, be inconstantly applied but that is always going to be the case as long as we have humans reefing the games. I often hear people going on about how good rugby refs are but they interpret things differently too so consistency is beyond us.

So thats why refs are inconsistent, they are reefing 

I agree almost entirely with what you have said zulu, a player can be off balance in a tackle and should be allowed a bit of leeway in regards steps when breaking away from the tackle. I think that is how it has been anyway.

Shagging predictive text!! Though having done a bit of reffing I'm considering starting reefing quite soon.

[DuffleKing]

In club football, does the accumulation of 3 black or yellow cards get you a 1 game suspension ?

Surely you either give the free for the second foul or give an additional advantage?

Surely you either give the free for the second foul or give an additional advantage?

Not sure still

I don't see why this needs clarification. The first foul resulted in advantage being played.
The player was fouled again - this is a successful advantage resulting in the player being in possession of the ball at the end of the play, whether that is in possession by way of another advantage or the ball in hand for a free kick.

The only reason you would go back is if he received no advantage - a free kick 20m on is an advantage.

Absolutely. Once the second foul happens (further up the field), the first advantage is over, and a new advantage begins from the spot of the 2nd foul.
So the ref either plays on if advantage accrues or brings it back to the spot of the 2nd foul if no further advantage arises. 

So any player can take advantage from one goal line to another providing the the referee has his hand in the air and the player is being fouled and advantage given!!

In club football, does the accumulation of 3 black or yellow cards get you a 1 game suspension ?

I believe it does Orangeman

County football only

[rrhf]

The key is now to break the foul and play on as there's always a fallback

[Never beat the deeler]

The key is now to break the foul and play on as there's always a fallback

loses a little without context

[smort]

Bit of a mix up down in Kerry, i think there could be a number of incidents like this during the early parts of the club and county seasons....

Gaelic football's new black card rule caused controversy in a schools games yesterday.

Dingle's Barra O Suilleabhain was issued with both a yellow and a black card during his side's extra-time defeat of Colaiste Chriost Ri in the Corn Ui Mhuiri quarter-final at Killarney yesterday.

Under the new rule, that equates to a red card but referee Kevin Walsh allowed the Kerry school to replace the midfielder.

Chriost Ri selector Ephie Fitzgerald - a former Cork minor football manager - explained to the Irish Daily Star: "Their midfielder got yellow-carded in the first half, maybe after 20 minutes.

"Then after ten or 12 minutes of the second half, he got a black card. We pointed it out to the linesman, but the referee was having none of it.

"I said to him at the time and I said it to him after the game. The referee's attitude to me was 'I'll send you to the stand if you don't go away'.

"And I wasn't being in any way aggressive, I was just asking the question, which I was disappointed in."

[Rossfan]

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

[Milltown Row2]

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

[smort]

I think referees (wrongly) believe asking for help/advice is a sign of weakness. If they approached a situation where they are unsure of the decision in the correct way, I would actually have more respect for them. Some referees can be very stubborn, ploughing ahead with decisions and not listening to genuine advice or enquiries from players/managers/other officials

[ballymac]

In club football, does the accumulation of 3 black or yellow cards get you a 1 game suspension ?

No see below.

Suspensions
At all levels a Black Card results in a player missing the remainder of the game.
Additionally at Senior Inter County Level:
3 x Black Cards = 1 Game suspension
3 x Double Yellow Cards = 1 Game suspension
OR
A Combination of both (totaling 3) = 1 Game suspension
Only in senior inter-county league and championship games within the same year.
At All Other Levels:
2 x Double Yellows within 48 weeks = 2 week suspension
2 x Yellow followed by a Black Card within 48 weeks = 2 week suspension
OR
A combination of both = 2 week suspension
At all levels except senior inter-county league and championship.

So in club football 2 double yellows or 2 yellow followed by a black card or combination of the above will be 2 WEEK SUSPENSION.

[Milltown Row2]

I think referees (wrongly) believe asking for help/advice is a sign of weakness. If they approached a situation where they are unsure of the decision in the correct way, I would actually have more respect for them. Some referees can be very stubborn, ploughing ahead with decisions and not listening to genuine advice or enquiries from players/managers/other officials

And players should also be a bit more honest in their game also

[smort]

I think referees (wrongly) believe asking for help/advice is a sign of weakness. If they approached a situation where they are unsure of the decision in the correct way, I would actually have more respect for them. Some referees can be very stubborn, ploughing ahead with decisions and not listening to genuine advice or enquiries from players/managers/other officials

And players should also be a bit more honest in their game also

Agreed, it should work both ways.

I wonder could we implement what is used in rugby where only the captain can talk to the referee. I see one of the candidates, or potential candidate to be exact, in the running for the next FIFA presidency wants to bring this rule into soccer.