FRC proposals...black cards, marks etc

[highorlow]

We must remember that all those in favour of the black card on here have never ever seen it in operation - no not even a little bit, so by claiming its a great day for the GAA etc should render their opinions as the most ridiculous statements ever made since Mc Stay claimed the removal of rule 42 was the highlight of his year.   I could claim something that has yet to happen is great for the GAA but I would expect a backlash of ridicule and accusations of numptiness from you guys keeping me right. 
I guarantee that within 2 months of these rules implemented ye will all be crying for the old rules and egms etc.  A completer collection of eejits you couldnt put together. Tyrone by the way will clean up under the new rules so deep down we are happy enough, but we cannot be accused of messing up the game. 
And we must remember 10% of the delegates voted for no punishment for sectarianism and racism and we are claiming that these guys know what they were doing and should be entrusted with changing the rules?

Well said. Ciaran Whealan probably best sums up what I've also been trying to articulate.

[highorlow]

Reading some of the sh1te here I have to say I'm delighted this was introduced. Pity they didn't go further and make all frees for these fouls be taken from the 13 metre line or indeed a penalty for any inside the 45.

Rossfan - you have also contradicted yourself.

[Zulu]

We must remember that all those in favour of the black card on here have never ever seen it in operation - no not even a little bit, so by claiming its a great day for the GAA etc should render their opinions as the most ridiculous statements ever made since Mc Stay claimed the removal of rule 42 was the highlight of his year.   I could claim something that has yet to happen is great for the GAA but I would expect a backlash of ridicule and accusations of numptiness from you guys keeping me right. 
I guarantee that within 2 months of these rules implemented ye will all be crying for the old rules and egms etc.  A completer collection of eejits you couldnt put together. Tyrone by the way will clean up under the new rules so deep down we are happy enough, but we cannot be accused of messing up the game. 
And we must remember 10% of the delegates voted for no punishment for sectarianism and racism and we are claiming that these guys know what they were doing and should be entrusted with changing the rules?

Those of us supporting it never claimed it was a great day for the GAA, in fact to a man I think, we have all said it isn't perfect and would have preferred a sin bin or some other punishment. It is only the anti-black card crew who are predicting the future by claiming something they've never seen in action to be a disaster. You then bizarrely claim that those who say it will be great " should render their opinions as the most ridiculous statements ever made since Mc Stay claimed the removal of rule 42 was the highlight of his year.   I could claim something that has yet to happen is great for the GAA but I would expect a backlash of ridicule and accusations of numptiness from you guys keeping me right." Before going on to guarantee something you've never seen in action will be such a disaster that supporters of it will be "within 2 months of these rules implemented ye will all be crying for the old rules and egms etc."

I hope you've been drinking all morning as that is the only justification for posting such a contradictory load of old rubbish.

[magpie seanie]

I'm in a state of shock. I feared some yearthat something ridiculous would slip through congress and unfortunately this is the year. Honestly never thought the black card would go through - I thought it was the one the FRC were willing to lose to get the other stuff in. I'm just baffled. Hardy is right - the prize for diving and cheating has now been made even greater. Forget Hawkeye - the CCCC should retrospectively review ALL intercounty games, certainly in championship, and penalise diving with an 8 week ban. That would have been a good rule change.

As we all know the major problem in gaelic football is refereeing. Again nothing has been done to tackle the problem or even atempt to assist referees. I accept it's not the easiest game in the world to referee but the emphasis is all wrong. How many cards will a ref end up carrying? We've a few more colours to go. Wonder what a blue card could be for?

[orangeman]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2013/0325/378385-whelan-players-must-adapt-to-black-card-system/

Interesting view from Ciaran Whelan who I am sure is glad his career is over.


Can anybody tell me what the difference is between a yellow and a black card ?


And can you pick up as many black cards in the year without any further punishment ?

[Zulu]

As far as I know yes but you can also still do so with yellow cards can't you?

MS, any increased punishment for fouling will also have the effect of increasing the temptation for diving so you can't have one without the other. Refereeing standards are definitely an issue but this makes their job easier and I can't see how anyone can suggest otherwise. The game is difficult to ref, especially in contact situations but the black card fouls are fairly clear cut.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

And can you pick up as many black cards in the year without any further punishment ?

Pick up 3 and you miss the next game.

[orangeman]

And can you pick up as many black cards in the year without any further punishment ?

Pick up 3 and you miss the next game.

And is the clock reset to zero then and if you pick up another 3, you get another game suspension ?


So pull 3 jersies and you get a game ban ?

Pull 6 jersies and get 2 game ban ?

Or does the punishment increase time after time ?

[real food, real people]

I'm in a state of shock. I feared some yearthat something ridiculous would slip through congress and unfortunately this is the year. Honestly never thought the black card would go through - I thought it was the one the FRC were willing to lose to get the other stuff in. I'm just baffled. Hardy is right - the prize for diving and cheating has now been made even greater. Forget Hawkeye - the CCCC should retrospectively review ALL intercounty games, certainly in championship, and penalise diving with an 8 week ban. That would have been a good rule change.

As we all know the major problem in gaelic football is refereeing. Again nothing has been done to tackle the problem or even atempt to assist referees. I accept it's not the easiest game in the world to referee but the emphasis is all wrong. How many cards will a ref end up carrying? We've a few more colours to go. Wonder what a blue card could be for?

The video shown at congress before this motion was passed highlighted the negative tactics. They were very selective though as they didnt show the resultant decision from the referee! The Armagh one alone was a red never mind the tap on diarmuid Connelly! Yet in todays Irish News they claim that there was only 1 yellow card issued for the examples shown. This highlights the problem perfectly. Its easy to blame players and managers, but they just find where the boundary is and see how far they can push it. If our rules were clearer and administered better on and off the field (refs, CCC, DRA) tackles like those shown at congress wouldnt be an issue and we wouldnt need Black cards! Referee training and assessment in our games needs a complete overhaul. It needs to be a sought after position with enough financial reward to make it worthwhile for those doing it. Bonus structures should be in place for a ref that gets above a set score for his performance in a game, if he gets a score below a certain level he shouldn't get anything! Lets help these guys become better, just like we do with investments in coaching players and coaches and then our game can flourish as it should.

[Zulu]

It clearly defines what a black card is for both refs and players this will make it easier for refs to administer the black card and all players will know it they do commit these fouls they'll get sent off so this will reduce the number of such fouls. These offences already exist in the game so I don't see how giving a black card rather than a red or yellow will increase the burden on refs.

[Keane]

To answer a question posed earlier, the max number of substitutions has been increased to six, and black card enforced subs count as part of that six.

4. The Black Card:
If a player is deemed guilty of "Cynical behaviour", a black card may be issued. The player will be sent off but a substitution will be allowed. Substitutions are permitted up to the third black card, however if a team receives a fourth, the player sent off cannot be replaced.

'Cynical behaviour' includes these infractions:
(1) 'to deliberately pull down an opponent'
(2) 'to deliberately trip an opponent'
(3) 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away''
(4) 'to threaten or use abusive language or gestures to an opponent'
(5) 'to remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a match official'

12. Under the 'Black Card' system, a player who issued with 3 black cards is subsequently banned from playing his next game.

The motion to introduce the Black Card was passed on a majority of 70% to 30%. The motion was spoken in favour of by an overwhelming majority of those who put their views across on the matter, which keen opponents to the change Armagh conspicuous in their lack of contribution to the debate.

Those who spoke in favour of the motion included representatives of the FRC, along with referee chief Pat McEneaney, former Munster Council Chairman Sean Walsh and former GAA president Joe McDonagh. The only dissenting voices were Cork delegate Christy Ring Jr who cited diving as a more important issue, and Tyrone chairman Ciaran McLaughlin who agreed with the definition of cynical fouls, but felt that the current rules were adequate to punish them.

Source:

http://www.livegaelic.com/features/gaa-congress-passes-majority-of-frc-proposals/

[muppet]

Another point here, Democracy is dead. 
a full county board meeting representing the people of that county mandates their representative to vote.  He spends 2 hours getting lobbied at Congress to and decides to do his own thing in keeping with the spirit of the weekend that is in it.  Sheep would have more shame.

This has been going on for years. Connacht would have a Provincial ground if this didn't happen.

[phpearse]

Don't agree with the black card rule as I can see it leading to more pulling and dragging by the guy in possession. Look at how many times a player in possession grabs the tacklers arm and drags him to the ground with the referee giving the free to the man with the ball. You take a man running at speed at the oppositions best player, the ball carrier grabs the tackling arm and pulls the tackler to the ground. It is so difficult to determine what has actually happened but more times than not the foul is called against the tackler and under this new rule the black card for the tackler will mean they are sent off.

What will happen is some referees will apply the rule to the letter of the rule and others will not.

[muppet]

Don't agree with the black card rule as I can see it leading to more pulling and dragging by the guy in possession. Look at how many times a player in possession grabs the tacklers arm and drags him to the ground with the referee giving the free to the man with the ball. You take a man running at speed at the oppositions best player, the ball carrier grabs the tackling arm and pulls the tackler to the ground. It is so difficult to determine what has actually happened but more times than not the foul is called against the tackler and under this new rule the black card for the tackler will mean they are sent off.

What will happen is some referees will apply the rule to the letter of the rule and others will not.

And that in a nutshell is the problem that needs fixing, not the rules.

[take_yer_points]

It clearly defines what a black card is for both refs and players this will make it easier for refs to administer the black card and all players will know it they do commit these fouls they'll get sent off so this will reduce the number of such fouls. These offences already exist in the game so I don't see how giving a black card rather than a red or yellow will increase the burden on refs.

Is there a clear definition of what a yellow and red card is? As RFRP said a few posts ago there was 1 yellow card shown for all those offences in the video - do you think more than one of them should have been a yellow?

I think there should have been a few yellows (and I could be wrong of course) and that shows that the refs don't understand the clear definition of what a yellow card is and this just introduces further complexity to the current misunderstanding of the sanctions available (even worse, they are the refs of intercounty games and should be the best refs in the country!!). The ref must now educate themselves on what constitutes a black, yellow and red card offence - but from the examples in the video they don't even understand what a yellow is and they've been about for years now.

I can't understand this being passed without at least being trialled at a lower level. I'm not comparing GAA to other sports, but can you think of a rule change in another sport that was introduced directly to the highest level in that sport without a trial at a lower level? It may well end up being a great rule* but introducing it in this manner is totally wrong

* I don't think it will - the refs don't currently implement the sanctions available consistently and this is going to lead to more inconsistency from refs and more frustration from county/club managers and players.