Mediocre teams coming good

[J70]

Arguable, but interesting! No question that Down's achievement inspired Donegal and started the ball rolling for Derry and Tyrone (almost!), but Donegal were an experienced side who got sucker punched two years earlier against Meath and probably felt good enough anyway. Impossible to say for sure, obviously, but even if Down hadn't done it in '91, the relative strength of those teams probably would have seen Sam up north very soon after.

[seafoid]

Down 1991. I vividly recall leaving the Marshes after they struggled to beat a mediocre Armagh team saying to myselfthat even the pick of the two of them would win nothing. Even allowing for the terrible weather that day they were both brutal.  The rest is history of course.

they had scoring forwards though

[DennistheMenace]

Coleraine in Derry won the Senior Championship in 2010 i think.

[shawshank]

Coleraine in Derry won the Senior Championship in 2010 i think.

u mean Portstewart, can't understand how they are known as Coleraine, the pitch is in Portstewart, nearly all the players are from there also.

[ranch]

Down 1991. I vividly recall leaving the Marshes after they struggled to beat a mediocre Armagh team saying to myselfthat even the pick of the two of them would win nothing. Even allowing for the terrible weather that day they were both brutal.  The rest is history of course.

If jim mcconville hadn't fell over himself history could have been very different!

That 91 down side were far from Mediocre.  Yes i agree that was a dreadful wet day in Newry and no one saw an All Ireland coming  after beating a terrible Armagh side but we more than had the quality to compete. How different History could have been had down not won that All Ireland. I dont think Derry and Donegal would have had the lift to go on and win their first titles if Down hadnt shown the way.

Strange logic.

[DownFanatic]

Coleraine in Derry won the Senior Championship in 2010 i think.

Lads, just on that. Did Coleraine have any underage success prior to this or was it just a freak year? I know the McGoldrick clan had a big part to play in this.

[qubdub]

Down 1991. I vividly recall leaving the Marshes after they struggled to beat a mediocre Armagh team saying to myselfthat even the pick of the two of them would win nothing. Even allowing for the terrible weather that day they were both brutal.  The rest is history of course.

If jim mcconville hadn't fell over himself history could have been very different!

That 91 down side were far from Mediocre.  Yes i agree that was a dreadful wet day in Newry and no one saw an All Ireland coming  after beating a terrible Armagh side but we more than had the quality to compete. How different History could have been had down not won that All Ireland. I dont think Derry and Donegal would have had the lift to go on and win their first titles if Down hadnt shown the way.

Strange logic.

Not really?? Widely accepted that Mullaghbawn's Ulster exploits in 95 was part of the catalyst that motivated Crossmaglen to go one further the next year.

[qubdub]

Also, converse to the thread title, what have been the biggest falls from grace? club football in particular?

[Walter Cronc]

Coleraine in Derry won the Senior Championship in 2010 i think.

Lads, just on that. Did Coleraine have any underage success prior to this or was it just a freak year? I know the McGoldrick clan had a big part to play in this.

Coelraine regularly compete and win B grade underage titles in Derry. They have had a knack of bringing through 1 or 2 excellent players over this last ten years to compliment the senior side. I think this year their u14s are in the A grade and are strong! Excellent club run by the genius Sean Mc Goldrick!!

[snoopdog]

Down 1991. I vividly recall leaving the Marshes after they struggled to beat a mediocre Armagh team saying to myselfthat even the pick of the two of them would win nothing. Even allowing for the terrible weather that day they were both brutal.  The rest is history of course.

If jim mcconville hadn't fell over himself history could have been very different!

That 91 down side were far from Mediocre.  Yes i agree that was a dreadful wet day in Newry and no one saw an All Ireland coming  after beating a terrible Armagh side but we more than had the quality to compete. How different History could have been had down not won that All Ireland. I dont think Derry and Donegal would have had the lift to go on and win their first titles if Down hadnt shown the way.

Strange logic.

Not really. Since 68 Ulster teams were seen as an easy Semifinal for any of the other 3 provinces. apart from 77 Armagh and Tyrone in 86(both failed in the final) Down stopped the rot and gave those teams a bit more confidence in their own ability. Im not taking anything away from that Donegal or Derry team as they were both fantastic, but the monkey on the back of ulster teams being cannon fodder was no longer an issue for them. They felt they could compete with Down so why not the rest, if Down could win an all Ireland then it was a possibility for them also. Imagine if there were a back door back then. Down Donegal Derry Meath Dublin would have made for some mouthwatering games and maybe another title or two for Ulster or indeed leinster.

[LeoMc]

Also, converse to the thread title, what have been the biggest falls from grace? club football in particular?

Recent all-Ireland winning Tyrone minor sides. 

[seafoid]

Down 1991. I vividly recall leaving the Marshes after they struggled to beat a mediocre Armagh team saying to myselfthat even the pick of the two of them would win nothing. Even allowing for the terrible weather that day they were both brutal.  The rest is history of course.

If jim mcconville hadn't fell over himself history could have been very different!

That 91 down side were far from Mediocre.  Yes i agree that was a dreadful wet day in Newry and no one saw an All Ireland coming  after beating a terrible Armagh side but we more than had the quality to compete. How different History could have been had down not won that All Ireland. I dont think Derry and Donegal would have had the lift to go on and win their first titles if Down hadnt shown the way.

Strange logic.

Not really. Since 68 Ulster teams were seen as an easy Semifinal for any of the other 3 provinces. apart from 77 Armagh and Tyrone in 86(both failed in the final) Down stopped the rot and gave those teams a bit more confidence in their own ability. Im not taking anything away from that Donegal or Derry team as they were both fantastic, but the monkey on the back of ulster teams being cannon fodder was no longer an issue for them. They felt they could compete with Down so why not the rest, if Down could win an all Ireland then it was a possibility for them also. Imagine if there were a back door back then. Down Donegal Derry Meath Dublin would have made for some mouthwatering games and maybe another title or two for Ulster or indeed leinster.

I think the wind up of the war in the wee 6 had an effect on Ulster fuball as well.
Didn't HMG invest a lot of money in sports facilities over the 90s for a bit of a different focus?
If the 4th green field had been joined to the rest of the farm from the 20s on with no political violence,  Ulster counties would probably have won a lot more all Irelands. 

[Armaghgael]

Enniskillen Gaels

[deiseach]

Not really. Since 68 Ulster teams were seen as an easy Semifinal for any of the other 3 provinces. apart from 77 Armagh and Tyrone in 86(both failed in the final) Down stopped the rot and gave those teams a bit more confidence in their own ability. Im not taking anything away from that Donegal or Derry team as they were both fantastic, but the monkey on the back of ulster teams being cannon fodder was no longer an issue for them. They felt they could compete with Down so why not the rest, if Down could win an all Ireland then it was a possibility for them also. Imagine if there were a back door back then. Down Donegal Derry Meath Dublin would have made for some mouthwatering games and maybe another title or two for Ulster or indeed leinster.

Agree 100%. And the two Ulster appearances in Croke Park in September that you mention were at the expense of Connacht teams. You'll never see a team freeze at the prospect of success more than Tyrone did in 86. Which brings us to Down . . . I'd go so far as to say it had reverberations around the entire country. Up until 1992 my only experience of Waterford in finals had been for them to get beaten out the gate but when the Minors and Under-21's pitched up in their respective Munster hurling finals that year there was definitely a feeling that if an Ulster team could win Sam then why couldn't we do great things? And (relatively speaking) they did *wipes away a tear*

[ONeill]

Monaghan '85 were a quare side.