Down v Mayo, Sat 9th March, Páirc Esler - Newry

[moysider]

on what evidence do you say mayo FF line is a problem . they are not my cup of tea as players as they never seem to score an easy point but they are getting the Job done. 16 points was a fine total to have run up the last day and the Problem was we let in far too much, yes of course a better full back would have got us over the line against Donegal no more than the finals against kerry , Mayo were brutally exposed at full back. and  as i said the really worrying thing is horan does not see a problem.
I think may are nearly there and things in general are very much in a good posotion in most places even i think the full back situation can be fixed maybe with more coaching for caff or shane mchale i believe is read to do a job we just need to get right combination at midfield and with the 3 boy coming back in the forwards thoings are looking good.

3 man ff line is too easy to defend against because its so crowded. Partly the reason our 3 inside have to work so hard for their scores. And why we dont score goals. Too many bodies to run into and around. Brogan on the other hand had acres of space to work in. As well as his ability he also had the space to do his stuff. I cant see Tyrone and Donegal give him that kind of space. They ll crowd their backs and they ll do this by droping 'forwards' deep and they certainly wont have 3 flat ffs at the other end of the pitch. I m not suggesting everybody should ape Donegal and Tyrone. But we have to be practical. The Dublin/Mayo and Don./Tyrone games at the weekend was like watching 2 different sports. One game got rave reviews for skill and entertainment but I reckon the other will most realistically be whats around in championship last 4.

To create cover at the back you have to lose a ff. Unless we continue to concede more than we score we ll have to limit the damage of the likes of Brogan, Cooper etc. That s why I cant see us afford to have Doherty, Varley, O Connor and Conroy all in the same team. All have a lot to offer but only 2 should start. We need to create more space up front and clog up in front of our own goal more. We have players that make us a naturally dangerous counter-attacking side. Most of our recent goals and goal chances have come from players running on from deep positions.

I think yourself and Horan are approaching things the same way - expecting one player to look after Murphy and Brogan. We don t have anybody that can imo and I doubt any county has ( maybe Cadogan might).

[Crete Boom]

yes the same shape that was a disaster getting mayo to league and championships finals last year . how many other  other counties would to have similar misfortune.
Mayo weakes spot against Both Donegal and dublin was undoubtedly full back . Just as murphy and mcfadden had the run of the pitch last setember  B brogan could not believe his luck last Saturday.
Cafferkeys one stong point is his ability to upset the player in possession but when faced with a top class forward he does seem able to do this  and his inability to catch solo or kick a ball becomes increasingly obvious. I know it sounds harsh to soeak of an all star like this . but it wasa glaring problem on saturday.
more worrying was Horan statement the he did very little wrong after letting brogan score 1 -04 from play

Give a rest Ros, Ger Caf is from Ballina, he was born there and so his local club is the Stephenites! He didn't transfer there just to annoy you. You say we were brutally exposed at fulback against Donegal so I assume you mean the Michael Murphy goal. Well Kevin Keane was asked to mark Michael Murphy for the start of that game and it was he who was marking him when the first goal went in. Also I wouldn't even blame Kevin Keane for that goal, it was the way we let Karl Lacey have all the time in the world ( Dillion I think didn't close him down) to pick out the perfect pass (which he did) that I would be more concerned with. Caff has improved year on year and was man of the match against Kerry at the start of the league. He was bad the last night but so was Keith Higgins but what didn't help was that every ball they did manage to clear came straight back at them because we were wiped out at midfield. How come you rate Keith Higgins so highly cause after all Ballyhaunis is close enough to sounding like Ballina .

[Farrandeelin]

yes the same shape that was a disaster getting mayo to league and championships finals last year . how many other  other counties would to have similar misfortune.
Mayo weakes spot against Both Donegal and dublin was undoubtedly full back . Just as murphy and mcfadden had the run of the pitch last setember  B brogan could not believe his luck last Saturday.
Cafferkeys one stong point is his ability to upset the player in possession but when faced with a top class forward he does seem able to do this  and his inability to catch solo or kick a ball becomes increasingly obvious. I know it sounds harsh to soeak of an all star like this . but it wasa glaring problem on saturday.
more worrying was Horan statement the he did very little wrong after letting brogan score 1 -04 from play

Give a rest Ros, Ger Caf is from Ballina, he was born there and so his local club is the Stephenites! He didn't transfer there just to annoy you. You say we were brutally exposed at fulback against Donegal so I assume you mean the Michael Murphy goal. Well Kevin Keane was asked to mark Michael Murphy for the start of that game and it was he who was marking him when the first goal went in. Also I wouldn't even blame Kevin Keane for that goal, it was the way we let Karl Lacey have all the time in the world ( Dillion I think didn't close him down) to pick out the perfect pass (which he did) that I would be more concerned with. Caff has improved year on year and was man of the match against Kerry at the start of the league. He was bad the last night but so was Keith Higgins but what didn't help was that every ball they did manage to clear came straight back at them because we were wiped out at midfield. How come you rate Keith Higgins so highly cause after all Ballyhaunis is close enough to sounding like Ballina .

He could be on about Donegal in last year's league when Caff got taken to the cleaners by Murphy ...but I doubt it.

I honestly think we'll struggle in this one. As the Down boys are saying on the Down v Cork thread, they'd have won the game if Cork didn't get 3 goals. We look incapable of scoring that amount of goals in a game. Therefore it's imperative Horan selects the right players in the middle area for Saturday. I honestly think Vaughan hasn't been near as effective since the second half of last year. Granted, he's great at driving forward, but a number 6 should be able to man the centre more effectively. FtB could be right in Horan not really giving a toss anymore. Either that or he has taken us as far as he can.

[macdanger2]

The Ballina lads seem fierce touchy on here!!! 

I think we might be getting a bit carried away with some of the comments based on a couple of league results .

I thought at least part of the problem was that the players seemed very flat against Dublin, when Dublin players made runs for short kickouts, the Mayo lads weren't able to keep pace with them. I'd wonder how they trained in the couple of days prior to that game - I understand that they stayed in Enfield on the Friday night so maybe they trained a bit on Saturday morning?? Part of the problem against Dublin was that players in and around MF weren't tracking their men who were allowed to break in numbers and deliver ball under very little pressure.

I don't buy this idea that the only way to win is to have a two man FF line - for a start, we don't have a real top quality forward like Brogan who we can play in there pretty much on his own being marked by two backs. And if the opposition decide to remove a man from their FF line in order to play in front of their FB line, then surely that frees up one of our backs to play in front of our FB line?? How that player is used is crucial though.

The selection for this game will be interesting, would prefer to see either Keane / McHale / Walsh / Rogers / AN Other in in the FB line and maybe try someone different in at CHB instead of Vaughan (maybe Boyle or Barrett?).

[moysider]

The Ballina lads seem fierce touchy on here!!! 

I think we might be getting a bit carried away with some of the comments based on a couple of league results .

I thought at least part of the problem was that the players seemed very flat against Dublin, when Dublin players made runs for short kickouts, the Mayo lads weren't able to keep pace with them. I'd wonder how they trained in the couple of days prior to that game - I understand that they stayed in Enfield on the Friday night so maybe they trained a bit on Saturday morning?? Part of the problem against Dublin was that players in and around MF weren't tracking their men who were allowed to break in numbers and deliver ball under very little pressure.

I don't buy this idea that the only way to win is to have a two man FF line - for a start, we don't have a real top quality forward like Brogan who we can play in there pretty much on his own being marked by two backs. And if the opposition decide to remove a man from their FF line in order to play in front of their FB line, then surely that frees up one of our backs to play in front of our FB line?? How that player is used is crucial though.

The selection for this game will be interesting, would prefer to see either Keane / McHale / Walsh / Rogers / AN Other in in the FB line and maybe try someone different in at CHB instead of Vaughan (maybe Boyle or Barrett?).

First bold bit - Tyrone and Donegal wont even bother competing for Cluxton s short kick-outs. They ll concede them and have dropped off and clog it up and turn the ball over and counter attack. Donegal did that in 2011 and Tyrone will do the same. They wont even half-heartedly compete on short kick-outs but they will turn the ball over further on. Remember Dub. v Don. semi in 2011. Brogan - was he player of the year? - did not score 1-10 that day.

Second bold bit - 2ff line is probably too much now. Donegal won the AI final with only one with only one in next line as well. Playing so many forwards in an advanced position suits blanket defences. They know exactly where everybody is and there s no space and makes multiple teaming a forward in possession a cinch. Tyrone had only max 4 players in Mayo half 2 weeks ago for much of the game. When they battened the hatches on a lead that reduced by 50%.

I d like to see a bit of a rejig on selection as well. But it doesnt matter a shite who we pick if we dont cop on to the tactical realities out there. I like Horan -never met him- and I hope it works out for him. I hope he s not too conservative because if he is he wont get there.

[western exile]

on what evidence do you say mayo FF line is a problem . they are not my cup of tea as players as they never seem to score an easy point but they are getting the Job done. 16 points was a fine total to have run up the last day and the Problem was we let in far too much, yes of course a better full back would have got us over the line against Donegal no more than the finals against kerry , Mayo were brutally exposed at full back. and  as i said the really worrying thing is horan does not see a problem.
I think may are nearly there and things in general are very much in a good posotion in most places even i think the full back situation can be fixed maybe with more coaching for caff or shane mchale i believe is read to do a job we just need to get right combinationat midfield and with the 3 boy coming back in the forwards thoings are looking good.

I cannot agree that there is a fullback problem and that Cafferkey needs to be 'coached'.
I do agree that there are defensive issues that did not exist last year, but these are team collective and not the problem of the fullback.
For example, Brogans goal happened because Barry Moran did not tackle Flynn so Cafferkey had no choice but leave his man. Defense is a team effort, and Mayo did it well last year.

[macdanger2]

First bold bit - Tyrone and Donegal wont even bother competing for Cluxton s short kick-outs. They ll concede them and have dropped off and clog it up and turn the ball over and counter attack. Donegal did that in 2011 and Tyrone will do the same. They wont even half-heartedly compete on short kick-outs but they will turn the ball over further on. Remember Dub. v Don. semi in 2011. Brogan - was he player of the year? - did not score 1-10 that day.

Second bold bit - 2ff line is probably too much now. Donegal won the AI final with only one with only one in next line as well. Playing so many forwards in an advanced position suits blanket defences. They know exactly where everybody is and there s no space and makes multiple teaming a forward in possession a cinch. Tyrone had only max 4 players in Mayo half 2 weeks ago for much of the game. When they battened the hatches on a lead that reduced by 50%.

So we should just imitate the way Donegal / Tyrone play?? Don't see how we can beat them at their own game, we don't have a Michael Murphy for a start. Not sure what the significance of the references to Donegal in 2011 and Tyrone are - Donegal didn't win that game in 2011 and Tyrone have been well off the pace in the last couple of years.......

I would argue that rather than taking this approach of not contesting opposition kickouts you seem to be advocating, we should press the high up the pitch (tactical fouling if necessary) making it harder for them to put good ball into the FF line which reduces the pressure on our FB line. As western exile says, defense is a team effort and that's where Mayo failed last weekend.

[ardtole]

Is this game on setanta Ireland?

[Lar Naparka]

I know Newry fairly well but I don't know where Pairc Esker is.  Could some Down fan enlighten me?
I suppose I could find the ground okay but I'd really appreciate advice about the best place to park the car. I want to get away straight after the game so I can make it back to Dublin at my ease and get there before the pubs close!

[Crete Boom]

The Ballina lads seem fierce touchy on here!!! 

I think we might be getting a bit carried away with some of the comments based on a couple of league results .

I thought at least part of the problem was that the players seemed very flat against Dublin, when Dublin players made runs for short kickouts, the Mayo lads weren't able to keep pace with them. I'd wonder how they trained in the couple of days prior to that game - I understand that they stayed in Enfield on the Friday night so maybe they trained a bit on Saturday morning?? Part of the problem against Dublin was that players in and around MF weren't tracking their men who were allowed to break in numbers and deliver ball under very little pressure.

I don't buy this idea that the only way to win is to have a two man FF line - for a start, we don't have a real top quality forward like Brogan who we can play in there pretty much on his own being marked by two backs. And if the opposition decide to remove a man from their FF line in order to play in front of their FB line, then surely that frees up one of our backs to play in front of our FB line?? How that player is used is crucial though.

The selection for this game will be interesting, would prefer to see either Keane / McHale / Walsh / Rogers / AN Other in in the FB line and maybe try someone different in at CHB instead of Vaughan (maybe Boyle or Barrett?).

That's it , a Cross man advocating ditching a player from the aristocrats of Mayo football for somebody from hungry hill .I'll not darken the door of another county game again till there are at least eleven Stephenites men on the staring 15 or till DB is player manager!
I would ask now to be left in peace to enjoy my club championship relegation playoffs in 2013 without any more scurrilous attacks on Mayo's finest club.

[ballinaman]

I know Newry fairly well but I don't know where Pairc Esker is.  Could some Down fan enlighten me?
I suppose I could find the ground okay but I'd really appreciate advice about the best place to park the car. I want to get away straight after the game so I can make it back to Dublin at my ease and get there before the pubs close!

Down the hill all the way into the town, pass the Quays shopping centre and across the bridge, think its first big right at lights out the Warrenpoint road about half a mile. Big graveyard on the left. I'm planning to leave Dublin around 5. Have a banner to put up behind the town goals 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I know Newry fairly well but I don't know where Pairc Esker is.  Could some Down fan enlighten me?
I suppose I could find the ground okay but I'd really appreciate advice about the best place to park the car. I want to get away straight after the game so I can make it back to Dublin at my ease and get there before the pubs close!

Not a Down fan necessarily, but might be able to help you there Lar 

I parked in the town-centre (coming from Dublin) and walked the fairly short distance to the ground -- the Buttercrane car-park is on your left as you approach the centre (about 50 metres before KFC), and it's free. From there you'd walk straight on following the right-wheel over the bridge until you come to River Street and take a right, and the ground is straight on down from there (you'll have it in your sights by then).

[Lar Naparka]

I know Newry fairly well but I don't know where Pairc Esker is.  Could some Down fan enlighten me?
I suppose I could find the ground okay but I'd really appreciate advice about the best place to park the car. I want to get away straight after the game so I can make it back to Dublin at my ease and get there before the pubs close!

Not a Down fan necessarily, but might be able to help you there Lar 

I parked in the town-centre (coming from Dublin) and walked the fairly short distance to the ground -- the Buttercrane car-park is on your left as you approach the centre (about 50 metres before KFC), and it's free. From there you'd walk straight on following the right-wheel over the bridge until you come to River Street and take a right, and the ground is straight on down from there (you'll have it in your sights by then).

Thanks Fear and also ballinaman.
I know the Buttercrane and the Quays so I'll find the ground without a bother.

[rosnarun]

Very unfair to suggest i have an anti ballina Bias . Was a big fan of Cafolla's and Archies back in the day  and Im well over my time Coarding in St Muradech's. i can sleep with the light off and everything now. Pinthorn or no Pinthorn.
also I think Clarke should be in Goal

[snoopdog]

you cant miss the floodlights coming down the Dublin road into the Town.