Alliance showing their true colours now

[michaelg]

If they want to play Gaelic games they will at the club,

A school that has no Gaelic games, no Irish language etc is not integrated in any meaningful sense of the word (and of course real integrated schools have these things).  It is no use talking about schools that did not play soccer, everyone at that school had exposure to soccer and played in the school yard. It is no good talking about rugby schools, if Rockwell College does not have gaelic games it does not mean that its pupils do not know about them.

By the same token then, does that that mean that a school that does not acknowledge the unionist / British tradition in Ireland is also not integrated in any meaningful sense of the word?
As for your point about soccer and playing in the school yard, does this not prove the point that soccer is the game that most schoolboys wanted to be playing and being denied the opportunity to do so, therefore, was unfair?

[T Fearon]

OO indoctrination includes hatred of all things catholic,a superiority over all Catholics,Pope is anti christ etc.Catholic education does not denigrate Protestant beliefs,Protestant people etc.

There is no evidence that faith schools contribute to sectarianism never mind promote it etc.

My core point is that Alliance Party's belief that integrated education will eradicate sectarianism,or even diminish it,is entirely erroneous.

[Maguire01]

Well what about the cost of having different sectors then? SF's current united Ireland pitch appears largely based on economics - in particular the duplication of services across the 2 jurisdictions. Here's an example in just one of those jurisdictions - yet there doesn't appear to be any appetite to address it.

[armaghniac]

By the same token then, does that that mean that a school that does not acknowledge the unionist / British tradition in Ireland is also not integrated in any meaningful sense of the word?

How on earth could they not acknowledge the British in Ireland when the Queen's head is on every coin spent in the tuckshop?

[Eamonnca1]

I pay taxes which fund the local police department. If I want to hire private security more closely tailored to what I want then I'm free to do so at my own expense, but I still have to do my bit for society and pay taxes to fund the police service that's available to everyone. That's how society works.

In the UK you pay national insurance to fund the NHS.  If you want to get private health care more closely tailored to what you want they you're free to do so at your own expense, but you still have to make your NI contributions to fund the health service so that it's available to everyone. That's how society works.

So you pay taxes to fund the education system. If you want to have a private system for the purpose of indoctrinating your wee ones about the invisible man in the sky then knock yourself out and foot the bill for it, but you'll still have to pay your taxes to fund the state education system that's open to everyone. That's how society should work.

As for integration, integrated schools should be teaching kids how to play soccer, hockey, rugby, tennis, hurling, gaelic, the whole lot. And if there's no GAA sports in local state schools or integrated schools in your area, don't just sit there and hold it up as proof that the system is broken.  Take positive action. Get your local GAA club to make in-roads in those schools by providing coaching in Gaelic games during PE.  That's what's happening in schools in the USA, there's no excuse for clubs in Ireland to not be able to do the same.

[Milltown Row2]

OO indoctrination includes hatred of all things catholic,a superiority over all Catholics,Pope is anti christ etc.Catholic education does not denigrate Protestant beliefs,Protestant people etc.

There is no evidence that faith schools contribute to sectarianism never mind promote it etc.

My core point is that Alliance Party's belief that integrated education will eradicate sectarianism,or even diminish it,is entirely erroneous.

You seem to think that OO is in every Prod family, I disagree. Yes anybody who is in the OO and teach their kids to hate catholics is a tosser and a bigot, that won't change, intergrated schools won't change that either, I'd say that the OO numbers have diminished in recent years, I haven't got the actual figures but I'd say their membership is a lot lower, a bit like the amount of catholics that actually go to church and even less the amount of catholics who don't have sex before marriage and all the other do's and don'ts.

There are still interface areas that will bring out bigot hatred. Go to any Celtic/rangers game or even Cliftonville/Linfield game (and I've been) and the madness that is at these games doesn't come from one side only.

It's the same old thing, them and us

[Eamonnca1]

Well what about the cost of having different sectors then? SF's current united Ireland pitch appears largely based on economics - in particular the duplication of services across the 2 jurisdictions. Here's an example in just one of those jurisdictions - yet there doesn't appear to be any appetite to address it.

Spot on. There's about 4 sectors in the north. State, CCMS, Integrated, and Irish Medium.

[Main Street]

If they want to play Gaelic games they will at the club,

A school that has no Gaelic games, no Irish language etc is not integrated in any meaningful sense of the word (and of course real integrated schools have these things).  It is no use talking about schools that did not play soccer, everyone at that school had exposure to soccer and played in the school yard. It is no good talking about rugby schools, if Rockwell College does not have gaelic games it does not mean that its pupils do not know about them.

The State secondary system is mono cultural and dysfunctional as a future model. The integrated primary and secondary look more interesting.

[Ulick]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE. Let's face it what Alliance want is for your children to be homogeneous Northern Irish Brits, end off.

[Eamonnca1]

There is no evidence that faith schools contribute to sectarianism never mind promote it etc.

Well a minute ago you cited an example of people who went to an integrated school and came out as non-sectarian. If I were able to pull up a few examples of people who went to segregated schools and came out as bigots would you accept that as evidence to the contrary of what you've just claimed there?

[Ulick]

I pay taxes which fund the local police department. If I want to hire private security more closely tailored to what I want then I'm free to do so at my own expense, but I still have to do my bit for society and pay taxes to fund the police service that's available to everyone. That's how society works.

In the UK you pay national insurance to fund the NHS.  If you want to get private health care more closely tailored to what you want they you're free to do so at your own expense, but you still have to make your NI contributions to fund the health service so that it's available to everyone. That's how society works.

So you pay taxes to fund the education system. If you want to have a private system for the purpose of indoctrinating your wee ones about the invisible man in the sky then knock yourself out and foot the bill for it, but you'll still have to pay your taxes to fund the state education system that's open to everyone. That's how society should work.

As for integration, integrated schools should be teaching kids how to play soccer, hockey, rugby, tennis, hurling, gaelic, the whole lot. And if there's no GAA sports in local state schools or integrated schools in your area, don't just sit there and hold it up as proof that the system is broken.  Take positive action. Get your local GAA club to make in-roads in those schools by providing coaching in Gaelic games during PE.  That's what's happening in schools in the USA, there's no excuse for clubs in Ireland to not be able to do the same.

Yup, we're as British as Finchley here and should be accepting of a good UK education system.

[Milltown Row2]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE. Let's face it what Alliance want is for your children to be homogeneous Northern Irish Brits, end off.

I want my kids to be well educated at school, that is the reason why I send them to school. I will teach the culture and if they want to hurl play scor or bogball they can come to the club, as for religion they can make up their own minds on that head melt, who's right on that one?

Suppose you'll know when you are dead

[Orior]

All this talk of religion in schools is nonsense, all schools teach the same curricula, including RE. Let's face it what Alliance want is for your children to be homogeneous Northern Irish Brits, end off.

Correct.

[Orior]

You say that Orange Order indoctrinates kids, I also say the Catholic church (like all religions) indoctrinates kids. There are a serious amount of prod kids whose families are not in the OO. My kids go to non denominational schools they aren't being taught to be prods or taigs, If they want to play Gaelic games they will at the club, if they don't (like a lot of kids) then I can't make them. Would I like the school to encourage Gaelic games? Yes big time, same way I would have liked the chance to have played soccer at my old school, buy hey no soccer allowed as we were a catholic school who frowned on those types of sports, thus denying us the chance to try other things at school level.

I think there is is a lot of money spent in schools to ensure there is both a catholic school and a Prod school in close proximity. Money wasted in my opinion

No, Im saying that the OO indoctrinates young adults.

[Orior]

with no exposure whatsoever to any form of Irish culture.

Exactly. Leaving religion out of it, the State school sector in NI sees its role as promoting colonialism.

No. That's one of the few arguments in their favour.

And their fans see this as the objective of such schools.

How precisely does it do this?  Incidentally, did you attend a school in the state sector?

I spend a lot of time in secondary schools across all sectors through work - many, if not all state schools fly the union flag and some of the various other symbols of British culture I have seen to the fore include portraits of members of the royal family, plaques recognising past pupils in the British armed forces, not to mention careers in the armed forces actively being promoted as a career choice. I have never seen anything in a state school to indicate that Irish culture even exists.

If Catholic schools were ever to be replaced by integrated for the purposes of promoting a shared society then the current state school sector would also have to go by the wayside.

Have you ever seen a school in the north flying a tricolour?