Messi wins 4thBallon d'OR

[Rossie11]

Dont get me wrong Barca are good, very good, but they are poor at the back, and have been for a number of years, to me the greatest team ever should be as good going back as they are going forward. THE barca team now is totally different to the team that won the champions league maybe 6yrs bck! The Milan team of 89-92 plus their revised version that won in `94 to me are a better overall team, losses to Marseille 91/92 plus suspended one year for walking off, and a loss to Ajax 95,(who would have been special only they sold all their players) stopped this team from winning another 3 titles when they were the strongest team in Europe at the time. Barca for some reason have always struggled against Chelsea,everybody has a bogey team i suppose.

Its down to the structure of the team and how they choose to play the game. People critisise Barca and Madrid for having been bad defensively but as neither are playing with a defensive game plan of course they are going to be exposed.
You could pick the best back 4 in the world and stick them into Barcas team and they would still get opened up regularly as they are not playing 2 banks of 4 like for example the traditional Italian set up.

As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.

Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.

However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.
In my opinion it is not possible to be as good as Barca going forward and have the solid Greece or Italian style defense
You have to have a balance and play to your strengths. Its suits Barca to play like the do. Its suits Italy to play as they do.
It makes for a fascinating clash of styles. Soccer would be a lot more boring if everyone played the same way.

[Main Street]

As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.

Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.

Cannavaro was well past his best in his last season for Madrid, a rapid decline from his previous seasons' excellence with Madrid, an individual standard of excellence recognised in part by the 2006 Ballon d'Or award.

[Billys Boots]

As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.

Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.

Cannavaro was well past his best in his last season for Madrid, a rapid decline from his previous seasons' excellence with Madrid, an individual standard of excellence recognised in part by the 2006 Ballon d'Or award.

I think the point is that Italian defending is very different (to modern Spanish defending) in that its major strengths are in positioning, jockeying and tackling - the principles are that defenders sit deep, don't have to run long distances and have their backs to goal most of the time.  The modern Spanish game requires that defenders press forward to minimise the distance between defence and midfield, and thus defenders find themselves too far from their own goal to do the Italian thing effectively. 

Compare what happens in the middle third in Serie-A and La-Liga games back-to-back if you get the chance.  The first meeting of Spain and Italy in the recent European championship was a very interesting comparison of the effectiveness of the styles of play - we (well, I) got the impression that there wasn't much between their (current) effectiveness ... until the final, that is. 

[Shamrock Shore]

Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor

I'll get my coat..

[Main Street]

As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.

Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.

Cannavaro was well past his best in his last season for Madrid, a rapid decline from his previous seasons' excellence with Madrid, an individual standard of excellence recognised in part by the 2006 Ballon d'Or award.

I think the point is that Italian defending is very different (to modern Spanish defending) in that its major strengths are in positioning, jockeying and tackling - the principles are that defenders sit deep, don't have to run long distances and have their backs to goal most of the time.  The modern Spanish game requires that defenders press forward to minimise the distance between defence and midfield, and thus defenders find themselves too far from their own goal to do the Italian thing effectively. 

Compare what happens in the middle third in Serie-A and La-Liga games back-to-back if you get the chance.  The first meeting of Spain and Italy in the recent European championship was a very interesting comparison of the effectiveness of the styles of play - we (well, I) got the impression that there wasn't much between their (current) effectiveness ... until the final, that is.

I think the specific point I was referring to was that Cannavaro could hack it in Spain even in the twilight seasons of his career.
Just because Italy and Spain play football differently doesn't mean that good footballers can't adapt.
Though I don't know why Zambrotta didn't flourish at Barca, one would have thought he was bound for glory at full back there.

The oft repeated comment that 'Barca are poor at the back' is one of the most asinine comments made about modern football.
But Barca do hesitate when looking for defenders and last season much to their cost in the CL they had no back up for long term casualty Puyol, not to mention when Pique got injured.

[muppet]

Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor

I'll get my coat..

Suarez 2nd?

[Applesisapples]

Barca were so poor at the back last year they had the best defence in La liga. Barca won't compromise their footballing principles to buy an out and out central defender. Puyol, Pique and indeed Mascherano who has excelled at the back are converted mid field players.

[gallsman]

The oft repeated comment that 'Barca are poor at the back' is one of the most asinine comments made about modern football.
But Barca do hesitate when looking for defenders and last season much to their cost in the CL they had no back up for long term casualty Puyol, not to mention when Pique got injured.

Chrygrynsky was sold against Pep's wishes but they needed the funds and Thiago Silva looked certain to be heading to them until PSG weighed in with megabucks, so They do look at accomplished defenders elsewhere but you need to be extremely good on the ball in this Barca team which is why they're happy to play Mascherano there - his reading of the game and ability to play the ball out of defence make up for his lack of height etc. They won't throw money at a defender unless they think he can play football as well.

[magpie seanie]

Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor

I'll get my coat..

Suarez 2nd?

He handled it well though.

[muppet]

Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor

I'll get my coat..

Suarez 2nd?

He handled it well though.

Starfish turd?

[rodney trotter]

Carlos Puyol is a regular Spanish International and missed the Euro's through injury. Gerard Pique had a solid campaign for Barcelona and was very good during the Euro's. Jordi Alba is a regular with Spain and also had a very good Euro's.
Dani is obviously not Spanish but a good defender aswell, and is in the Fifa club team of the year.

Barcelona mightn't be as dogged like the Italians defenisvely but I wouldn't say the defence is poor either.

Spain are the best International side in the world, those players aren't in the team for no reason.

[From the Bunker]

Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor

I'll get my coat..

Suarez 2nd?

Ashley Young 3rd ?