Queens withdraw from McKenna Cup

[ck]

McIvor should be applauded for his stance. Puts players first cos he can see the long game.
Question, if Queens pull out do the other colleges have to do the same? I'm assuming they all are singing off same hymn sheet.

[NaomhBridAbú]

This bollocks about the Universities reinvigorating the McKenna Cup is tiresome. It existed before them. The matches involving the Unis are the poorest attended.

Clearly they are going to be less well attended since one of the teams will carry little or no support where colleges are involved. Leadership has to come from the Ulster council on this issue, if they don't allow the colleges first call on their players I can only see the competition resorting to its old format. They are too weak however, and afraid to upset the county managers.

+1

+2

[Throw ball]

In most circumstances I think the Universities should have first call on the players. There may be particular times when a County manager wants to look at a player and may ask the University to release that player. That may be fair enough. However, for a University to pull out because the county players are unavailable is totally wrong. They state that not having their players hinders the preparation for the Sigerson. But county managers will say the same about the league. For me the key difference is that county managers primary objective is to forge a county team. For universities the primary objective is to educate. Are they telling their students that if time gets tough or you do not get your way just run away. Are they telling other squad members we do not think you are good enough and do not think it is worth our while giving you a chance.

For me it is simple. For this year the universities should put up and shut up. Play the competition. The ulster council should then outline the rules for player picks. If agreement cannot be reached then scrap the whole thing. In the end it is really only money spinning friendlies to prepare teams for more important matches.

[rrhf]

There is a fundamental problem that no one has identified till now.  If Im a 20 year old and Im shortlisted for a county senior panel for the season amongst other exciting non university talents and an existing established panel of players, I would be trying to force my way up from arguably the bottom of the pile.  I would imagine playing for the university in the Mc Kenna cup wouldnt come near it.  You dont grow up with a limited ambition of playing for your university, unless you are a Kevin Mc Gourty type your focus would be on getting into a county senior squad and you would not want anything else to interfere not least a university team heading for a competition (Sigerson) with many similar traits  to the railway cup.  The way that colleges approach Sigerson football and their so called professional management set ups have been a blight on the GAA.     

[ck]

In most circumstances I think the Universities should have first call on the players. There may be particular times when a County manager wants to look at a player and may ask the University to release that player. That may be fair enough. However, for a University to pull out because the county players are unavailable is totally wrong. They state that not having their players hinders the preparation for the Sigerson. But county managers will say the same about the league. For me the key difference is that county managers primary objective is to forge a county team. For universities the primary objective is to educate. Are they telling their students that if time gets tough or you do not get your way just run away. Are they telling other squad members we do not think you are good enough and do not think it is worth our while giving you a chance.

For me it is simple. For this year the universities should put up and shut up. Play the competition. The ulster council should then outline the rules for player picks. If agreement cannot be reached then scrap the whole thing. In the end it is really only money spinning friendlies to prepare teams for more important matches.

I wouldnt disagree with that but you are a year or two late. The same issue was on the table for the last two years and the ulster council did nothing. From memory St. Marys were on the verge of pulling out last year. The Ulster council came out and said they would sort it for next year but of course they have done SFA. So surely the colleges have to take a stand once and for all?

The GAA frustrate me with their lack of decisive action on issues. This is just one of many. They make all the right noises but then get to work sweeping it all under the carpet. If they don't think colleges should have access to county players then they should throw them out of the McKenna cup and be done with it and stop sitting on fence. I'd say that would be a relief to the colleges tbh

[theticklemister]

In most circumstances I think the Universities should have first call on the players. There may be particular times when a County manager wants to look at a player and may ask the University to release that player. That may be fair enough. However, for a University to pull out because the county players are unavailable is totally wrong. They state that not having their players hinders the preparation for the Sigerson. But county managers will say the same about the league. For me the key difference is that county managers primary objective is to forge a county team. For universities the primary objective is to educate. Are they telling their students that if time gets tough or you do not get your way just run away. Are they telling other squad members we do not think you are good enough and do not think it is worth our while giving you a chance.

For me it is simple. For this year the universities should put up and shut up. Play the competition. The ulster council should then outline the rules for player picks. If agreement cannot be reached then scrap the whole thing. In the end it is really only money spinning friendlies to prepare teams for more important matches.

the colleges need their full quota of players just to compete against county teams; what is the point going into a game missing 50% of your starting 15 and knowing you are on a hiding to nothing? who gains from this?

another thing , if ye enter the mckenna cup with a panel of 26; you have to give game time to all involved if ye want a look at them all; so really some fringe university players may only get one game. If they are playing for their unis they are getting three games, plus the prime competition for unis is 3/4 weeks away. County managers are selfish to the extreme.

I really can't comprehend how people can back those managers who wish to pull county players from their unis at this time of the year.

[rodney trotter]

I wouuldn't agree with not letting the players play with the Colleges in the McKenna Cup. But it's not as if the Colleges don't play any football, they train since September and play in the Ryan Cup which runs until December. A lot of County teams are only back training collectively since the 8th of December. If they want to select a squad for the National League but can't as there is possibly 7/8 players playing college football then you can see the point where they are comming from.

Some counties go into the National League not knowing their strongest team as they hadn't a full Squad for the McKenna Cup . That can fook them up, lose a few games, lose form. Lots of annoyance.

Its not as if the Colleges don't know what their strongest team is, they train from September and are together, not spread all around the County like a County team. They play Ryan Cup football so not like they are guessing a team for Sigerson Football. Sigerson is a huge competition so they would obviously want all their players available in the Mckenna Cup.

See both sides of the argument, but don't think Mickey Harte should have his way all the time on the matter.

[Redhand Santa]

The colleges revived and energised the McKenna cup. Shame that they now look as if they are being forced out cos they can't have their players.

Don't agree with this at all. As someone else pointed out the games involving the colleges are worst attended and I don't buy the lack of 2 counties support as travelling support would be light in the McKenna Cup. They're certainly the games that I least like attending.

Mickey Harte has been knocked on this thread but he did as much to revie the McKenna Cup as anyone. When he took over Tyrone he put big emphasis on it and talked up the games. This was the beginning of a successful period for Tyrone and encouraged others to take it seriously. And obviously people are more likely to go to games when high profile managers place emphasis on them.

The other big factor in reviving it was the change in timing of both it and the leagues. Playing it in January before the league and after a long break from championship meant there was always going to be more emphasis on it and greater interest.

[theticklemister]

I love watching derry playing the colleges in the mckenna cup, great to see county players from different counties playing together. I also liked when you had county players playing for the uni against their counties; they always try that bit harder to impress the county manager and are usually are in a more central position for the university so the county manager may get his eyes opened.

[ONeill]

When people trot out the line that the Unis saved the McKenna Cup they're talking dung.

What boosts the McKenna is when there are successful counties competing. In Tyrone and Armagh's heyday the crowds flocked in to see players who were winning All-Irelands or competing at that level. It'll be the same with Donegal next year.

The Unis were just an extra gate for the Ulster Council.

[TY14ED]

I wouuldn't agree with not letting the players play with the Colleges in the McKenna Cup. But it's not as if the Colleges don't play any football, they train since September and play in the Ryan Cup which runs until December. A lot of County teams are only back training collectively since the 8th of December. If they want to select a squad for the National League but can't as there is possibly 7/8 players playing college football then you can see the point where they are comming from.

Some counties go into the National League not knowing their strongest team as they hadn't a full Squad for the McKenna Cup . That can fook them up, lose a few games, lose form. Lots of annoyance.

Its not as if the Colleges don't know what their strongest team is, they train from September and are together, not spread all around the County like a County team. They play Ryan Cup football so not like they are guessing a team for Sigerson Football. Sigerson is a huge competition so they would obviously want all their players available in the Mckenna Cup.

See both sides of the argument, but don't think Mickey Harte should have his way all the time on the matter.

Fair points there on both sides of the argument. However i was just running my eye over Tyrone squad for 2013 & correct me if I'm wrong but is Sean Warnock the only player Tyrone have who would be playing with Queens? Hardly enough to cause a Queens withdrawal so dont think we can hold Mickey Harte to blame.

[DuffleKing]

I think the point on Harte is that he has been allowed to get away with this for 4/5 years - peaking last year with the now infamous lock in and emotional blackmail - and other managers have finally followed suit.

[LeoMc]

I think the point on Harte is that he has been allowed to get away with this for 4/5 years - peaking last year with the now infamous lock in and emotional blackmail - and other managers have finally followed suit.

?
Can't be that infamous.

[shawshank]

What a niave post that is about Brian Mc Ivor, who is with Mc Ivor that he might want to keep sweet. Answer on a stamp.

Does it make his philosophy wrong? It's a far more player orientated approach than others have chosen.

Tally is his coach. Thats the simple reason. He's not going to fall out with him.

[yellowcard]

What a niave post that is about Brian Mc Ivor, who is with Mc Ivor that he might want to keep sweet. Answer on a stamp.

Does it make his philosophy wrong? It's a far more player orientated approach than others have chosen.

Tally is his coach. Thats the simple reason. He's not going to fall out with him.

I don't think he allowed them play with their colleges to appease Tally. That is doing McIvor a disservice, after all he has been involved at colleges level and has previously managed Donegal and never felt the need to co-erce the college players to play McKenna cup for their counties.

Its a common sense player orientated approach. These players main focus at the moment will be the upcoming Sigerson campaigns. Apart from the fact that its simply the county managers simply trying to show whos the boss (led by Mickey Harte, the rest have followed), logically if they allow their players to play for their colleges then  they will not only have their own squad of say 20 match day players but also those additional college players putting themselves on trial against county teams.

You can dress it up whatever way you want but its simply the county managers trying to lay down the law. The Ulster council need to grow a set or scrap the current format.