Cross player claims racial abuse

Started by onefaircounty, December 03, 2012, 02:35:34 PM

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orangeman

Quote from: bennydorano on January 11, 2013, 06:37:21 PM
Quote from: Armamike on January 11, 2013, 06:17:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 10, 2013, 11:51:43 PM
Why would the lad have ever of mentioned it, if it didnt happen which seems unlikely.This day and age people seem to think whats goes on, on a football field stays on the field. This shouldn't be the case, referees should have come down hard on sledging years ago. one or two players made they name at it more than their football ability,. Managers have a responsibility to for their players to act in a proper manner and not the win at all cost attitude which is so prevalent in professional sports.

In this given the circumstances, it would be 'reasonable' to conclude that racist abuse has been given. 
If the Ulster council feel that there is sufficient evidence to ban the player, then why reduce this to 4 months - is there a cap on the length of time?  Ban or no ban, the Kilcoo players/supporters have brought shame to their club, whether they can see that or not. All abuse is not equal - in our culture racist abuse is the most vile.
Correct, I was going to make the same point to Pauld123, the 'lines in the sand' are drawn by society as a whole - no matter what individual's opinions are.

What do the rules say ? We can't go on what we think society finds distasteful or not or to what degree. 

What's going to happen the next time a player shouts abuse at an opposing manger along the line ?

Is it ok to fire abuse just so long as we don't cross society's lines, whatever they are perceived to be ?

bennydorano

Well, you look like veering off on a tangent but, you can get Jail for racial abuse, so the lines are pretty clear, there's a clear distinction there, whether or not you want follow society's rules or laws  is your call

cadence

england and wales have the crime and disorder act s31/32 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/37/section/31 that deals with racially and religiously aggravated crimes, and it's linked into s4 the public order act 1986 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64 and s1 para2 and  the harassment act 1997... 
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/1... although the harassment act requires there to be harassment on at least two occassions.

does northern ireland have law that covers racially and religiously aggravated crimes? all i've been able to dig out on tinternets is this...

NICEM BRIEFING PAPER ON
"Race Crime and Sectarian Crime Legislation in Northern Ireland"
Consultation Paper


Introduction
In our submission to the Independent Commission on Policing for Northern Ireland 12 January 1999), the so-called Patten Commission, we recommended the followings:

1.   The Police Commission should recommend the full implementation of the ACPO Guide with additional resources in training and management structure, in order to implement common standard across UK (Recommendation 7)
2.   The Police Commission should recommend the consolidation of those criminal offences which are now applicable in England and Wales, but not in Northern Ireland, such as racially-aggravated offences under section 28-32 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and racial violence and harassment offences under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. (Recommendation 8)
3.   The Police Commission should recommend enacting the same provision under the Housing Act 1996, which provides that racial harassment constitutes grounds for eviction. (Recommendation 9)

The ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officer) Guide on Policing and Racial Equality sets out the strategy and management structures to deal with ethnic minority people who are both the victims and the alleged perpetrators of crimes, including set up monitoring system and mechanism on racial incident (One of the many key areas that examined in Stephen Lawrence Inquiry). Unfortunately the then RUC had only implemented one-third of the ACPO Guide, mainly the racial incident reporting system.

And the Patten Commission Report never tackled any race issues at all; as a result the agenda was forgotten. NICEM had a meeting with Mr. Adam Ingram, the then Minister of Security, in November 2000 to follow-up our submission to Patten Commission on the issues of racial harassment and racial attack, in particular recommendations 7-9. We did not get any positive response from the government to tackle the issues.

The government Consultation Paper
In late November 2002, the government launched the Consultation Paper on "Race Crime and Sectarian Crime Legislation in Northern Ireland" examined the current legal position in this area (Paragraph 2.1-2.8) and recognised the problems of racial harassment and racial attack in Northern Ireland (Paragraph 3.1-3.3). The Consultation Paper is based on the Home Office Research Study 244: Racist offences-how is the law working? : The implementation of the legislation on racially aggravated offences in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 (Paragraph 4.1-4.11). And the Consultation Paper proposed four options for change are suggested as follows:

1.   Legislate in respect of sentencing which is to introduce provisions equivalent to those at s.82 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 (Paragraph 5.5-5.9);
2.   Allowing magistrates to find alternative verdicts in cases of racially aggravated offences (Paragraph 5.10);
3.   Legislate to create racially aggravated offences only; and
4.   Legislate to create racially aggravated offences and offences aggravated by sectarianism (Paragraph 5.11-5.14)

Basically the government proposal is using the existing incitement of hatred legislation, which is under the Public Order (NI) Order 1987 (the equivalent Public Order Act 1986 in GB), adds on the racial aggravated elements in sentencing. The 1986 Act defines racial hatred as "hatred against a group of persons in Great Britain defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins". It provides that a person is guilty of an offence if by his actions he intends to, or is likely to, stir up racial hatred.

The problem of the current incitement of hatred legislation
The 1987 Order includes religious ground, but does not include the offences contained in Section 5 of the 1986 Act in relation "to the display of any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby." Unfortunately, this important section is missing in the 1987 Order. Moreover, since the enactment in 1987, there is no single prosecution in Northern Ireland. The UN Committee on the Elimination of all forms of Racial Discrimination in hearing the UK Periodical Report in 2000 strongly criticised the 1986 Act that there were only 6 prosecutions in GB since enactment. Since then, there are two to three cases each year prosecuted under the 1986 Act. One of the prime reasons why the legislation is under use is that in order to invoke the 1986 Act it must get the approval from the Attorney General. It is quite a barrier for the police and public prosecution office to use the 1986 Act.

The government proposal fails to mention existing The Protection from Harassment (NI) Order 1997
The 1997 Order is equivalent to the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. The purpose of the 1997 Act is to provide statutory protection for victims of harassment. It creates several new offences of harassment: the offence of pursuing a course of conduct which places another person in fear of danger (Article 6 of the 1997 Order), and pursuing a course of conduct which causes harassment or distress to another (Article 3(1) and 3(2)). The civil and criminal courts are also empowered to make injunctions and restraining order respectively, to prevent further harassment taking place and breach of either order is in itself a criminal offence (Article 5 & 7). Harassment, in the 1997 Act, includes not only stalking but also covers the conduct of such persons as disruptive neighbours and racially motivated harassment ((287 HC Official Report (6th series) col 781, 17 December 1997).

     
Distinction between hate crime in general and racist crime in particular
Hate crime in general, and racist crime in particular, has a character that distinguishes it from other kinds of crime. The difference lies not only, and not primarily, in the offender's motivation, but in the greater harm done. The working definition of a racist incident proposed by the Lawrence Inquiry is helpful, as is the fact that it has been taken on board energetically by ACPO ("A racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person") It is important that practitioners throughout the criminal justice system (police, public prosecution, court, legal profession and judges) see clearly what lies behind the definition.

"The distinctive feature of racist crime is that a person or household is attacked not as an individual, as in most other crimes, but as the representative of a community. This has three particularly serious consequences.
•   Other members of the same community are made to feel threatened and insecure as well, and are less inclined to walk the streets of their neighbourhood, so it is not just the individual who suffers a curtailment of his or her freedom and security. Policies aiming to build Britain as a community of communities, as advocated throughout this report, are pointless if some people are virtual prisoners in their own homes, afraid to venture into public spaces because of racist violence or cultural or religious prejudice.
•   Since racist attacks affect a community as well as an individual, they are experienced as attacks on the values, loyalties and commitments central to a person's sense of identity and self-worth – their families, honour, friends, culture, heritage, religion, community, and history. Racist, cultural and religious abuse is accordingly more hurtful, as indeed its perpetrators consciously know and intend, than most other kinds of abuse.
•   Racist attacks are committed not only against a community but also, in the perception of offenders themselves, on behalf of a community – offenders see themselves as representative of their peer group, and by extension of white Britishness generally. Even more than in the case of most other crimes, it is therefore essential that mainstream public opinion shows solidarity with and support for victims, and takes care not to provide any kind of comfort or encouragement to the offenders or to the community to which they see themselves as belonging. The representative of mainstream opinion, in the first instance, is the criminal justice system."

(Chapter 10: The Wider Criminal Justice System, The Future of Multi-Ethnic Britain, Runnymede Trust, p.128)


Distinction between tackling racism in our society and tackling racial motivated crime
Racial harassment and racial attack is a complex social issues, we need to draw the distinction between the eradication of the roots of racial motivated crime (the issue of public education on racial prejudice and racism in Northern Ireland) on the one hand; and the protection of the victims of racial motivated crime (the issue of effective legal protection, remedy and social justice; and the parallel process of the racial equality criminal justice system, which examined by Stephen Lawrence Inquiry). Otherwise, it is not fair to blame everything to the policing or criminal justice issues.

Effective legal protection, remedy and social justice
NICEM suggests that our major focus should be on the latter, which examine the effective legislation on the police investigation, evidence gathering, public prosecution preparation and the judicial process (the details can be available on the above-mentioned Home Office Research Study 244), as well as the implication of "Institutional Racism" as identified in the Lawrence Report ("The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people.") By that means it is victim-centred in both protection and advocacy.



Eradication of the roots of racial prejudice and racism
Although the latter is the key focus, it is inevitable to raise the roles of the government to tackle racial prejudice and racism in our society. This is the only way to tackle the policy issues in the longer term. It is highly significant as the results of a number of research reports commissioned by the government to point out the fact that public awareness and public education are needed. It is particularly significant as the impact of September 11 and the recent terrorism within UK that links to the wider asylum seekers and migrants. The result is that the local people cannot distinct who are belongs to which groups and the kind of blanket exclusion and societal racism will be inevitable.

This argument is in line with the Lawrence Report which recommended to call on local authorities, in creating strategies under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, to "...consider implementing community initiatives aimed at promoting cultural diversity and addressing racism, and the need for focused, consistent support for such initiatives." (See The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry-implications for racial equality, CRE, March 1999, p.4-5) 


Next Step
NICEM will draft a submission base on the discussion at our consultation seminar on 23 January. We will circulate to the black and minority ethnic sector to endorse the submission in order to have a coherent voice. We are keen to come to talk to your committee members and/or your community in this important issue. If you need any assistance for the discussion of the consultation paper or this briefing paper, please contact our Development Worker, Marie Keating at 90 238645.


Prepared by Patrick Yu
Executive Director of NICEM
5 January 2003

Further reading:
1.   NICEM Submission to the Independent Commission on Policing for Northern Ireland (12 January 1999)
2.   Elizabeth Burney and Gerry rose, "Racist offences-how is the law working?: The implementation of the legislation on racially aggravated offences in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, Home Office Research Study 244, July 2002
3.   The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry: implications for racial equality, Commission for Racial Equality, March 1999
4.   A practical guide to the ACPO strategic policy document, Setting the Standards for Policing: Meeting community expectation, Commission for Racial Equality, 1993



Paddy Wan Kenobi

A Kilcoo fan has been banned for life by the Ulster Council according to the BBC. Makes you wonder why a lifetime ban for Joe Soap in the stand and only a four month ban for an intercounty player on the pitch. Once again no comment from Ulster Council.

bennydorano

Easy option and pretty unenforceable you'd imagine?

orangeman

Quote from: Paddy Wan Kenobi on January 16, 2013, 04:32:05 PM
A Kilcoo fan has been banned for life by the Ulster Council according to the BBC. Makes you wonder why a lifetime ban for Joe Soap in the stand and only a four month ban for an intercounty player on the pitch. Once again no comment from Ulster Council.

Looks and sounds good.


Armamike

That's just, like your opinion man.

trasna man

Ulster GAA Statement
Arising from the Ulster Senior Football Club final played at Armagh on 2nd December 2012, allegations emerged that racial abuse had been used both by players and spectators toward Aaron Cunningham of the Crossmaglen Rangers Club.

On Tuesday 4th December 2012, the Competitions Control Committee (CCC) considered the Referee's Report and established a sub committee to investigate the matter. They were asked provide a Report for the next meeting of the CCC.

The CCC met again on 13th December 2012 and considered the Report and made decisions to lay the disciplinary Report before two players of the Kilcoo Eoin Roes Club with recommended penalties. Both findings were not accepted so the matter moved to the Hearings Committee of the Ulster Council and the recommended penalties were removed until a determination was made by the Hearings Committee. The Kilcoo Club were asked to identify the spectator/s who made racist comments.

The matter was dealt with by the Hearings Committee on 20th December and made the following decisions:

1. Aidan Brannigan was suspended for sixteen weeks from the date of his last game in accordance with Rule 7.2 (E) T.O. 2012
2. Darryl Brannigan – the infraction was not proven and he was exonerated.

Following correspondence from the Kilcoo Club a member of the Club was identified and he has been debarred from membership for life and at a meeting of the Competitions Control Committee the person was prevented from accessing membership without direct application to the Ulster Council.

The Ulster Council acknowledges the cooperation of the Kilcoo Club, the members of the Sub Committee, the CCC and the Hearings Committee in dealing with the matter. The right of appeal now exists to the Central Appeals Committee and the Ulster Council will not make further comment at this time.

imtommygunn

I thought in cases like this I thought it was one mans word against another.

Based on one being proven and the other not I'm guessing a third party has to witness it and then speak up about it?

orangeman

Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2013, 04:18:03 PM
I thought in cases like this I thought it was one mans word against another.

Based on one being proven and the other not I'm guessing a third party has to witness it and then speak up about it?


What exactly is the level of proof that is required in this situation ? Would there not have to be very reliable and independent proof given the extremely serious nature of the allegations ?

nrico2006

Who is the Kilcoo member that is banned for life?  Why not name and shame him?  And what exactly does banned for life mean?  I'm sure he will be able to go to any game he wants again and I doubt he will be prevented from entering Kilcoos grounds again by a fellow club member.  Am I right in saying he is banned but can still become a member again by directly applying to the Ulster Council?
'To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.'

Orior

Anyone know who Crossmaglen play next in the 2013 Ulster Club Championship?
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

RandyDupree

Quote from: Orior on October 28, 2013, 10:18:00 AM
Anyone know who Crossmaglen play next in the 2013 Ulster Club Championship?

Kilcoo.

armaghniac

Has this 'banned' person been attending all the Kilcoo games?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

theticklemister

Kilcoo warm up on pitch before game.............