Marie Stopes abortion clinic opens in Belfast

[lawnseed]

it must be ok to kill a child as long as its in a nice office by someone well eduacated wearing a white coat using big words in a soft voice.. "now i'm just going to give you these wee pills and your little problem will disappear'

I assume you're just as opposed to the morning after pill?

theres nothing wrong with the night before pill. apart from the exceptional circumstances mentioned before most of these 'little problems' are easily avoided.

What about the morning after pill though?

does this pill prevent conception..? i dont know. i'm in favour of precautions lots of them. no point looking for reverse etc

[Maguire01]

it must be ok to kill a child as long as its in a nice office by someone well eduacated wearing a white coat using big words in a soft voice.. "now i'm just going to give you these wee pills and your little problem will disappear'

I assume you're just as opposed to the morning after pill?

theres nothing wrong with the night before pill. apart from the exceptional circumstances mentioned before most of these 'little problems' are easily avoided.

What about the morning after pill though?

does this pill prevent conception..? i dont know. i'm in favour of precautions lots of them. no point looking for reverse etc

It can stop a fertilised egg settling in the womb. It's perfectly legal, widely used and available north and south.

[lawnseed]

women/men a hundred years ago didnt have half the gear to hand to avoid unwanted pregnancies and yet they managed without stopes.

Clueless. Do you know how many women died from unsafe abortions a hundred years ago? Do you know how many still die?
According to the World Health Organisation, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease.
Stopes didn't invent abortion.

world heath organisation? theyre talking about people in counties where they havent got a crust of bread. not teenagers pissed in nightclubs with condom machines in the toilet or 24hr chemists in nearly every town.

[Evil Genius]

it must be ok to kill a child as long as its in a nice office by someone well eduacated wearing a white coat using big words in a soft voice.. "now i'm just going to give you these wee pills and your little problem will disappear'

Do you consider what is still a cluster of cells after, say, a few days pregnancy, to be a "child"?

And do you also believe that doctors who provide abortions are all so callous and cynical etc as you imply?

I should add that I only ask since this is an issue about which I have many doubts and problems etc, whereas you seem so certain as to appear to consider yourself unquestionable.

[Evil Genius]

women/men a hundred years ago didnt have half the gear to hand to avoid unwanted pregnancies and yet they managed without stopes.

Clueless. Do you know how many women died from unsafe abortions a hundred years ago? Do you know how many still die?
According to the World Health Organisation, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease.
Stopes didn't invent abortion.

Not only did Stopes (the organisation) not invent abortion, but abortion advice and provision is only a part of what they do, both in the UK and worldwide, for example:
http://www.mariestopes.org/what-we-do

In fact, by providing effective contraceptive and sexual health services in Third World countries etc, they undoubtedly prevent countless abortions taking place (as well as caring for mothers who are suffering as a result of having undergone backstreet/illegal abortions which were nothing to do with Stopes).

And for the record, Marie Stopes herself was opposed to abortion, since she felt that with access to proper contraceptive and health-care services, there should be no need for it.

[Maguire01]

women/men a hundred years ago didnt have half the gear to hand to avoid unwanted pregnancies and yet they managed without stopes.

Clueless. Do you know how many women died from unsafe abortions a hundred years ago? Do you know how many still die?
According to the World Health Organisation, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease.
Stopes didn't invent abortion.

world heath organisation? theyre talking about people in counties where they havent got a crust of bread. not teenagers pissed in nightclubs with condom machines in the toilet or 24hr chemists in nearly every town.

They're talking about countries where there is no access to safe abortion.

[lawnseed]

women/men a hundred years ago didnt have half the gear to hand to avoid unwanted pregnancies and yet they managed without stopes.

Clueless. Do you know how many women died from unsafe abortions a hundred years ago? Do you know how many still die?
According to the World Health Organisation, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease.
Stopes didn't invent abortion.

world heath organisation? theyre talking about people in counties where they havent got a crust of bread. not teenagers pissed in nightclubs with condom machines in the toilet or 24hr chemists in nearly every town.

They're talking about countries where there is no access to safe abortion.

maguire and eg. go ahead abort your kids infact abort as many as you like. but dont try to tell this forum that this crowd work for free.

[tyssam5]

women/men a hundred years ago didnt have half the gear to hand to avoid unwanted pregnancies and yet they managed without stopes.

Clueless. Do you know how many women died from unsafe abortions a hundred years ago? Do you know how many still die?
According to the World Health Organisation, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease.
Stopes didn't invent abortion.

world heath organisation? theyre talking about people in counties where they havent got a crust of bread. not teenagers pissed in nightclubs with condom machines in the toilet or 24hr chemists in nearly every town.

They're talking about countries where there is no access to safe abortion.

maguire and eg. go ahead abort your kids infact abort as many as you like. but dont try to tell this forum that this crowd work for free.

That would surely be up to lady they hypothetically impregnated no?

[Maguire01]

women/men a hundred years ago didnt have half the gear to hand to avoid unwanted pregnancies and yet they managed without stopes.

Clueless. Do you know how many women died from unsafe abortions a hundred years ago? Do you know how many still die?
According to the World Health Organisation, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease.
Stopes didn't invent abortion.

world heath organisation? theyre talking about people in counties where they havent got a crust of bread. not teenagers pissed in nightclubs with condom machines in the toilet or 24hr chemists in nearly every town.

They're talking about countries where there is no access to safe abortion.

maguire and eg. go ahead abort your kids infact abort as many as you like. but dont try to tell this forum that this crowd work for free.

Are you totally incapable of grown-up debate?
And who claimed they work for free? People pay for their services here - in turn they provide free or subsidised services is developing countries. It's a not-for-profit organisation, so I don't know who you think is creaming a 'profit'.

[Evil Genius]

maguire and eg. go ahead abort your kids infact abort as many as you like. but dont try to tell this forum that this crowd work for free.

I concur with Maguire's reply to your latter point [bold] (and will ignore the offensive implication in your opening remark).

Meanwhile, back in the Land of Reasoned Debate, I am still awaiting a reply to my questions in #64:

"Do you consider what is still a cluster of cells after, say, a few days pregnancy, to be a 'child'?
And do you also believe that doctors who provide abortions are all so callous and cynical etc as you imply?"

Btw, when  it comes to the latter question, I will refer once more to the link I provided to the wider work of Marie Stopes, since I doubt if you gave it any serious consideration previously:
http://www.mariestopes.org/what-we-do

[The Iceman]

I work in Tax. I deal with large multinational 'not for profits' who have revenues in the 400 Million - 1 billion per year. they have a 'not for profit' status but they are very much in the business of "profit" and making money.
your link to Marie Stopes is of course going to say what they want the world to believe. The same as any company - but how much of it is really true?

[Edited by Mod3. Iceman, please. That's a very disturbing and upsetting image.

[Evil Genius]

I work in Tax. I deal with large multinational 'not for profits' who have revenues in the 400 Million - 1 billion per year. they have a 'not for profit' status but they are very much in the business of "profit" and making money.

I assume the Internal Revenue taxes NFP organisations on a different (i.e. lower rate) basis from regular Corporate entities.  And I can't imagine that the US Government willingly foregoes additional tax-raising for no reason. Therefore there must be a substantive difference between what NFP organisations and regular Corporations do, and their "reward" for doing so.
Which is only the point which Maguire01 and I were making in response to claims that Stopes are only in it for the money etc

your link to Marie Stopes is of course going to say what they want the world to believe. The same as any company - but how much of it is really true?

Of course Stopes will present the picture of their organisation which best suits their purpose. As for how much of it is "true", I leave it for others to make up their own mind.
However, much of what they do is incontrovertable fact-wise. And not only that, but activity such as eg providing basic sexual health and educational services free of charge for desperately poor people in the Third World  must be very difficult for anti-Abortionists in the First World to criticise for being "sinful" or "immoral" etc.
Yet in their haste to seize the moral high ground, invariably they wilfully ignore the rest of the picture.

I seen this once and immediately though of it when you posted the link EG:

You may think this topic is fit for crude, propagandistic polemic, but I prefer intelligent, informed and rational debate.

[Maguire01]

I work in Tax. I deal with large multinational 'not for profits' who have revenues in the 400 Million - 1 billion per year. they have a 'not for profit' status but they are very much in the business of "profit" and making money.

I'd call it a surplus, rather than profit - the important point being that the surplus goes back into the organisation, rather than to shareholders. And that distinction is important for some posters here to understand, given that they're implying that someone is getting rich off this.

[Rois]

Iceman, please take that picture down. 

[Harold Disgracey]

For f**k sake Iceman take that down. You're not qualified to offer an opinion on a woman's right to choose, as far as I'm aware you don't possess a uterus.