Author Topic: The Palestine thread  (Read 128720 times)

Dire Ear

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2985 on: December 07, 2017, 11:39:13 AM »
Do they just want the Paleastinians to retaliate ( in any way ) and then pummel them again,  because that's what it looks like.  War mongering, but more subtle this time ??

J70

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2986 on: December 07, 2017, 12:51:04 PM »
From what I’ve read from those supporting this is that basically the US is telling the Palestinians that Jerusalem is going to be the capital and that the sooner they accept that and deal with it, the sooner they can stop being childish, sort out their corrupt, kleptocratic leadership, and start working towards a “realistic” settlement.

And you know what -they might be right. Israel isn’t going to stop stealing land and building settlements, and they’re never going to give up East Jerusalem. The rest of the Middle East will bitch about it and do nothing, the UN will condemn it (vetoed by the US), the odd US president will offer token resistance like Obama did, drawing the wrath of Likud, and Palestinians will be fucked no matter what, like they’ve been for decades.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:58:05 PM by J70 »

The Iceman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2987 on: December 07, 2017, 01:01:11 PM »
From what I’ve read from those supporting this is that basically the US is telling the Palestinians that Jerusalem is going to be the capital and that the sooner they accept that and deal with it, the sooner they can stop being childish, sort out their corrupt, kleptocratic leadership, and start working towards a “realistic” settlement.

And you know what -they might be right. Israel isn’t going to stop stealing land and building settlements, and they’re never going to give up East Jerusalem. The rest of the Middle East will bitch about it and do nothing, the UN will condemn it (vetoed by the US), the odd US president will offer token resistance like Obama did, drawing the wrath of Likud, and Palestinians will be fucked no matter what, like they’ve been for decades.
I agree with you on this. It's going to be one state.  The dream of two is gone. They should accept it and figure out a way to make it work. It drives me crazy to see the false narrative coming from Americans on the situation out there.  The poor Jews and the terrorist Palestinians...
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StGallsGAA

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2988 on: December 07, 2017, 02:51:29 PM »
It could well be that Israel called this move, knowing well it may spark another intifada.   That would then give Israel all the justification they need to take over the remainder of the West Bank in a "war on terror" with the full backing of Trump.

seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2989 on: December 07, 2017, 03:03:48 PM »
It could well be that Israel called this move, knowing well it may spark another intifada.   That would then give Israel all the justification they need to take over the remainder of the West Bank in a "war on terror" with the full backing of Trump.
Israel has no long term strategy to defend apartheid.
In the US 70% of non Orthodox Jews have left the religion. One of the reasons is the extremism of Israel .
It is a mess . And Jerusalem under Israeli rule is a kip.
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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2990 on: December 07, 2017, 05:18:34 PM »

Rossfan

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2991 on: December 07, 2017, 06:50:46 PM »
I presume the next step is to declare "GrossIsrael" as one State taking in all of the West Bank.
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seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2993 on: December 07, 2017, 08:36:11 PM »
I went to Palestine 18 years ago. I thought Israel was interested in peace. It took me years to figure out why it isn't. 
When a problem is never resolved you have to understand what is driving it.

Israel is fucked with Holocaust trauma. You cannot move to another part of the world after a genocide and expect kids to grow up normal.

I was reading an article about Svetlana Alexievich who won the 2015 Literature Nobel . There is a reason Israelis are vicious c***ts who don't want peace and it goes back to World war 2 and the death zone where the largest numbers of people were murdered. Timothy snyder wrote a book about the region between belarus Poland and Ukraine called bloodlands.  That is the homeland ofthe ashkénazi Jews so people like Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. 
27 Million soviet citizens died in WW2. That is unimaginable. 

Alexievich writes about the after effects. Russia is fucked with trauma. So is Israel.  Netanyahu is insane like Putin’s insane. And they know how to manipulate their people.


http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/

"The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin’s Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.

We thought we’d leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can’t leave this and become free, because these people don’t understand what freedom is.”




Ukrainians were blamed for the misery and subjected to harsh requisitions and reprisals that channeled starvation on to their territory, whereas Soviet citizens as a whole were told that collectivization was a grand success hindered only by nationalists and saboteurs.

It was collectivization, along with World War II (known as the “Great Fatherland War”), that created the Soviet Union that people of Alexievich’s generation experienced. Both were calamities that were covered in beautiful myths, myths that worked in part because people wanted individual suffering and death to have meaning. Collectivization was said, in retrospect, to have been necessary for victory in war, and victory in war was taken to demonstrate the legitimacy of the system as such.

When we confront, today, the myth of the Great Fatherland War and of Stalin as a good manager, we are hearing not the echoes of the events themselves, but of the memory campaign of the 1970s.

In the towns of the western Soviet Union that Alexievich knew best, urban life was not simply a novelty for some, but a novelty for almost everyone, since prewar urban classes had been destroyed by war, Holocaust, and deportation
Minsk was (and remains) a capital of Soviet nostalgia, where the straw of wartime suffering is spun into the gold of political meaning. No Soviet republic suffered more from the war than Belarus, and its partisans and its “hero cities” became the loci of the cult of remembrance.

She also very quickly explained that the fault lay not with one man but with the experiences of Soviet generations, now reworked for new wars. When she listed the fake descriptions of events in Ukraine in the Russian media, she spoke of Russian society as a “collective Putin.” As she put it, “Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are.”"

This is from an Israeli site


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/1.780819

Speaking on Channel 2’s "Meet the Press," Omer said: “The government has come and taken control of a public broadcasting agency, and the prime minister has decided that he'll appoint the anchors and the editors and the reporters.”
 


“We have become Turkey or Russia,” the broadcasting corporation chairman added.0 "

Israel will never get better. Something awful will happen to it.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

trileacman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2994 on: December 07, 2017, 09:01:01 PM »
I went to Palestine 18 years ago. I thought Israel was interested in peace. It took me years to figure out why it isn't. 
When a problem is never resolved you have to understand what is driving it.

Israel is fucked with Holocaust trauma. You cannot move to another part of the world after a genocide and expect kids to grow up normal.

I was reading an article about Svetlana Alexievich who won the 2015 Literature Nobel . There is a reason Israelis are vicious c***ts who don't want peace and it goes back to World war 2 and the death zone where the largest numbers of people were murdered. Timothy snyder wrote a book about the region between belarus Poland and Ukraine called bloodlands.  That is the homeland ofthe ashkénazi Jews so people like Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. 
27 Million soviet citizens died in WW2. That is unimaginable. 

Alexievich writes about the after effects. Russia is fucked with trauma. So is Israel.  Netanyahu is insane like Putin’s insane. And they know how to manipulate their people.


http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/

"The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin’s Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.

We thought we’d leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can’t leave this and become free, because these people don’t understand what freedom is.”




Ukrainians were blamed for the misery and subjected to harsh requisitions and reprisals that channeled starvation on to their territory, whereas Soviet citizens as a whole were told that collectivization was a grand success hindered only by nationalists and saboteurs.

It was collectivization, along with World War II (known as the “Great Fatherland War”), that created the Soviet Union that people of Alexievich’s generation experienced. Both were calamities that were covered in beautiful myths, myths that worked in part because people wanted individual suffering and death to have meaning. Collectivization was said, in retrospect, to have been necessary for victory in war, and victory in war was taken to demonstrate the legitimacy of the system as such.

When we confront, today, the myth of the Great Fatherland War and of Stalin as a good manager, we are hearing not the echoes of the events themselves, but of the memory campaign of the 1970s.

In the towns of the western Soviet Union that Alexievich knew best, urban life was not simply a novelty for some, but a novelty for almost everyone, since prewar urban classes had been destroyed by war, Holocaust, and deportation
Minsk was (and remains) a capital of Soviet nostalgia, where the straw of wartime suffering is spun into the gold of political meaning. No Soviet republic suffered more from the war than Belarus, and its partisans and its “hero cities” became the loci of the cult of remembrance.

She also very quickly explained that the fault lay not with one man but with the experiences of Soviet generations, now reworked for new wars. When she listed the fake descriptions of events in Ukraine in the Russian media, she spoke of Russian society as a “collective Putin.” As she put it, “Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are.”"

This is from an Israeli site


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/1.780819

Speaking on Channel 2’s "Meet the Press," Omer said: “The government has come and taken control of a public broadcasting agency, and the prime minister has decided that he'll appoint the anchors and the editors and the reporters.”
 


“We have become Turkey or Russia,” the broadcasting corporation chairman added.0 "

Israel will never get better. Something awful will happen to it.

Poland suffered horrifically during WW2. How do explain them not becoming c***ts?
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Rossfan

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2995 on: December 07, 2017, 10:24:21 PM »
Catholicism?
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seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2996 on: December 08, 2017, 06:47:11 AM »
I went to Palestine 18 years ago. I thought Israel was interested in peace. It took me years to figure out why it isn't. 
When a problem is never resolved you have to understand what is driving it.

Israel is fucked with Holocaust trauma. You cannot move to another part of the world after a genocide and expect kids to grow up normal.

I was reading an article about Svetlana Alexievich who won the 2015 Literature Nobel . There is a reason Israelis are vicious c***ts who don't want peace and it goes back to World war 2 and the death zone where the largest numbers of people were murdered. Timothy snyder wrote a book about the region between belarus Poland and Ukraine called bloodlands.  That is the homeland ofthe ashkénazi Jews so people like Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. 
27 Million soviet citizens died in WW2. That is unimaginable. 

Alexievich writes about the after effects. Russia is fucked with trauma. So is Israel.  Netanyahu is insane like Putin’s insane. And they know how to manipulate their people.


http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/

"The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin’s Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.

We thought we’d leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can’t leave this and become free, because these people don’t understand what freedom is.”




Ukrainians were blamed for the misery and subjected to harsh requisitions and reprisals that channeled starvation on to their territory, whereas Soviet citizens as a whole were told that collectivization was a grand success hindered only by nationalists and saboteurs.

It was collectivization, along with World War II (known as the “Great Fatherland War”), that created the Soviet Union that people of Alexievich’s generation experienced. Both were calamities that were covered in beautiful myths, myths that worked in part because people wanted individual suffering and death to have meaning. Collectivization was said, in retrospect, to have been necessary for victory in war, and victory in war was taken to demonstrate the legitimacy of the system as such.

When we confront, today, the myth of the Great Fatherland War and of Stalin as a good manager, we are hearing not the echoes of the events themselves, but of the memory campaign of the 1970s.

In the towns of the western Soviet Union that Alexievich knew best, urban life was not simply a novelty for some, but a novelty for almost everyone, since prewar urban classes had been destroyed by war, Holocaust, and deportation
Minsk was (and remains) a capital of Soviet nostalgia, where the straw of wartime suffering is spun into the gold of political meaning. No Soviet republic suffered more from the war than Belarus, and its partisans and its “hero cities” became the loci of the cult of remembrance.

She also very quickly explained that the fault lay not with one man but with the experiences of Soviet generations, now reworked for new wars. When she listed the fake descriptions of events in Ukraine in the Russian media, she spoke of Russian society as a “collective Putin.” As she put it, “Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are.”"

This is from an Israeli site


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/1.780819

Speaking on Channel 2’s "Meet the Press," Omer said: “The government has come and taken control of a public broadcasting agency, and the prime minister has decided that he'll appoint the anchors and the editors and the reporters.”
 


“We have become Turkey or Russia,” the broadcasting corporation chairman added.0 "

Israel will never get better. Something awful will happen to it.

Poland suffered horrifically during WW2. How do explain them not becoming c***ts?
Good question.
The Polish govt is also authoritarian and paranoid . The twin brother of the president died in a plane crash and the president says it was a conspiracy  The justice system is not up to EU standards.  MeDia are muzzled and there is a huGE controversy over a museum of the Holocaust and what is avceptable as history. Anyone who says Poles killed Jews is a traitor say the Government. Poland is not much better.
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trileacman

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2997 on: December 08, 2017, 10:16:32 AM »
I went to Palestine 18 years ago. I thought Israel was interested in peace. It took me years to figure out why it isn't. 
When a problem is never resolved you have to understand what is driving it.

Israel is fucked with Holocaust trauma. You cannot move to another part of the world after a genocide and expect kids to grow up normal.

I was reading an article about Svetlana Alexievich who won the 2015 Literature Nobel . There is a reason Israelis are vicious c***ts who don't want peace and it goes back to World war 2 and the death zone where the largest numbers of people were murdered. Timothy snyder wrote a book about the region between belarus Poland and Ukraine called bloodlands.  That is the homeland ofthe ashkénazi Jews so people like Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. 
27 Million soviet citizens died in WW2. That is unimaginable. 

Alexievich writes about the after effects. Russia is fucked with trauma. So is Israel.  Netanyahu is insane like Putin’s insane. And they know how to manipulate their people.


http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/

"The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin’s Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.

We thought we’d leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can’t leave this and become free, because these people don’t understand what freedom is.”




Ukrainians were blamed for the misery and subjected to harsh requisitions and reprisals that channeled starvation on to their territory, whereas Soviet citizens as a whole were told that collectivization was a grand success hindered only by nationalists and saboteurs.

It was collectivization, along with World War II (known as the “Great Fatherland War”), that created the Soviet Union that people of Alexievich’s generation experienced. Both were calamities that were covered in beautiful myths, myths that worked in part because people wanted individual suffering and death to have meaning. Collectivization was said, in retrospect, to have been necessary for victory in war, and victory in war was taken to demonstrate the legitimacy of the system as such.

When we confront, today, the myth of the Great Fatherland War and of Stalin as a good manager, we are hearing not the echoes of the events themselves, but of the memory campaign of the 1970s.

In the towns of the western Soviet Union that Alexievich knew best, urban life was not simply a novelty for some, but a novelty for almost everyone, since prewar urban classes had been destroyed by war, Holocaust, and deportation
Minsk was (and remains) a capital of Soviet nostalgia, where the straw of wartime suffering is spun into the gold of political meaning. No Soviet republic suffered more from the war than Belarus, and its partisans and its “hero cities” became the loci of the cult of remembrance.

She also very quickly explained that the fault lay not with one man but with the experiences of Soviet generations, now reworked for new wars. When she listed the fake descriptions of events in Ukraine in the Russian media, she spoke of Russian society as a “collective Putin.” As she put it, “Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are.”"

This is from an Israeli site


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/1.780819

Speaking on Channel 2’s "Meet the Press," Omer said: “The government has come and taken control of a public broadcasting agency, and the prime minister has decided that he'll appoint the anchors and the editors and the reporters.”
 


“We have become Turkey or Russia,” the broadcasting corporation chairman added.0 "

Israel will never get better. Something awful will happen to it.

Poland suffered horrifically during WW2. How do explain them not becoming c***ts?
Good question.
The Polish govt is also authoritarian and paranoid . The twin brother of the president died in a plane crash and the president says it was a conspiracy  The justice system is not up to EU standards.  MeDia are muzzled and there is a huGE controversy over a museum of the Holocaust and what is avceptable as history. Anyone who says Poles killed Jews is a traitor say the Government. Poland is not much better.

Poland’s is not much better than Israel?
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seafoid

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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2998 on: December 08, 2017, 10:56:51 AM »
I went to Palestine 18 years ago. I thought Israel was interested in peace. It took me years to figure out why it isn't. 
When a problem is never resolved you have to understand what is driving it.

Israel is fucked with Holocaust trauma. You cannot move to another part of the world after a genocide and expect kids to grow up normal.

I was reading an article about Svetlana Alexievich who won the 2015 Literature Nobel . There is a reason Israelis are vicious c***ts who don't want peace and it goes back to World war 2 and the death zone where the largest numbers of people were murdered. Timothy snyder wrote a book about the region between belarus Poland and Ukraine called bloodlands.  That is the homeland ofthe ashkénazi Jews so people like Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. 
27 Million soviet citizens died in WW2. That is unimaginable. 

Alexievich writes about the after effects. Russia is fucked with trauma. So is Israel.  Netanyahu is insane like Putin’s insane. And they know how to manipulate their people.


http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/

"The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin’s Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.

We thought we’d leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can’t leave this and become free, because these people don’t understand what freedom is.”




Ukrainians were blamed for the misery and subjected to harsh requisitions and reprisals that channeled starvation on to their territory, whereas Soviet citizens as a whole were told that collectivization was a grand success hindered only by nationalists and saboteurs.

It was collectivization, along with World War II (known as the “Great Fatherland War”), that created the Soviet Union that people of Alexievich’s generation experienced. Both were calamities that were covered in beautiful myths, myths that worked in part because people wanted individual suffering and death to have meaning. Collectivization was said, in retrospect, to have been necessary for victory in war, and victory in war was taken to demonstrate the legitimacy of the system as such.

When we confront, today, the myth of the Great Fatherland War and of Stalin as a good manager, we are hearing not the echoes of the events themselves, but of the memory campaign of the 1970s.

In the towns of the western Soviet Union that Alexievich knew best, urban life was not simply a novelty for some, but a novelty for almost everyone, since prewar urban classes had been destroyed by war, Holocaust, and deportation
Minsk was (and remains) a capital of Soviet nostalgia, where the straw of wartime suffering is spun into the gold of political meaning. No Soviet republic suffered more from the war than Belarus, and its partisans and its “hero cities” became the loci of the cult of remembrance.

She also very quickly explained that the fault lay not with one man but with the experiences of Soviet generations, now reworked for new wars. When she listed the fake descriptions of events in Ukraine in the Russian media, she spoke of Russian society as a “collective Putin.” As she put it, “Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are.”"

This is from an Israeli site


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/1.780819

Speaking on Channel 2’s "Meet the Press," Omer said: “The government has come and taken control of a public broadcasting agency, and the prime minister has decided that he'll appoint the anchors and the editors and the reporters.”
 


“We have become Turkey or Russia,” the broadcasting corporation chairman added.0 "

Israel will never get better. Something awful will happen to it.

Poland suffered horrifically during WW2. How do explain them not becoming c***ts?
Good question.
The Polish govt is also authoritarian and paranoid . The twin brother of the president died in a plane crash and the president says it was a conspiracy  The justice system is not up to EU standards.  MeDia are muzzled and there is a huGE controversy over a museum of the Holocaust and what is avceptable as history. Anyone who says Poles killed Jews is a traitor say the Government. Poland is not much better.

Poland’s is not much better than Israel?
They all have authoritarian and paranoid leaders. So it's not ideal.
Ireland did very well to stay out of WW2.
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Re: The Palestine thread
« Reply #2999 on: December 08, 2017, 04:27:21 PM »
I went to Palestine 18 years ago. I thought Israel was interested in peace. It took me years to figure out why it isn't. 
When a problem is never resolved you have to understand what is driving it.

Israel is fucked with Holocaust trauma. You cannot move to another part of the world after a genocide and expect kids to grow up normal.

I was reading an article about Svetlana Alexievich who won the 2015 Literature Nobel . There is a reason Israelis are vicious c***ts who don't want peace and it goes back to World war 2 and the death zone where the largest numbers of people were murdered. Timothy snyder wrote a book about the region between belarus Poland and Ukraine called bloodlands.  That is the homeland ofthe ashkénazi Jews so people like Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. 
27 Million soviet citizens died in WW2. That is unimaginable. 

Alexievich writes about the after effects. Russia is fucked with trauma. So is Israel.  Netanyahu is insane like Putin’s insane. And they know how to manipulate their people.


http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/

"The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin’s Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.

We thought we’d leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can’t leave this and become free, because these people don’t understand what freedom is.”




Ukrainians were blamed for the misery and subjected to harsh requisitions and reprisals that channeled starvation on to their territory, whereas Soviet citizens as a whole were told that collectivization was a grand success hindered only by nationalists and saboteurs.

It was collectivization, along with World War II (known as the “Great Fatherland War”), that created the Soviet Union that people of Alexievich’s generation experienced. Both were calamities that were covered in beautiful myths, myths that worked in part because people wanted individual suffering and death to have meaning. Collectivization was said, in retrospect, to have been necessary for victory in war, and victory in war was taken to demonstrate the legitimacy of the system as such.

When we confront, today, the myth of the Great Fatherland War and of Stalin as a good manager, we are hearing not the echoes of the events themselves, but of the memory campaign of the 1970s.

In the towns of the western Soviet Union that Alexievich knew best, urban life was not simply a novelty for some, but a novelty for almost everyone, since prewar urban classes had been destroyed by war, Holocaust, and deportation
Minsk was (and remains) a capital of Soviet nostalgia, where the straw of wartime suffering is spun into the gold of political meaning. No Soviet republic suffered more from the war than Belarus, and its partisans and its “hero cities” became the loci of the cult of remembrance.

She also very quickly explained that the fault lay not with one man but with the experiences of Soviet generations, now reworked for new wars. When she listed the fake descriptions of events in Ukraine in the Russian media, she spoke of Russian society as a “collective Putin.” As she put it, “Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are.”"

This is from an Israeli site


https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/1.780819

Speaking on Channel 2’s "Meet the Press," Omer said: “The government has come and taken control of a public broadcasting agency, and the prime minister has decided that he'll appoint the anchors and the editors and the reporters.”
 


“We have become Turkey or Russia,” the broadcasting corporation chairman added.0 "

Israel will never get better. Something awful will happen to it.

Poland suffered horrifically during WW2. How do explain them not becoming c***ts?

You obviously havent studied Polish history.
Polish Communists turned on their fellow countrymen on the orders of Moscow, locked up anyone who questioned the Moscow version of the Katyn Wood massacres, continued a campaign of harassment against democrats throughout the Cold War. Right wing Polish groups target Jews,homosexuals etc.IPolush governments want to dismantle many of the civil protections offered by E.U. membership. It would appear that Poland is not short of c***ts
We have declared for an Irish Republic. We will live under no other law