Ulster Colleges

[Eamonnca1]

Dynamic of ulster schools football has fairly changed. Was talking to a first year pupil at the match yesterday and they were saying there were 280 in their year. Ill be amazed if st ronans dont win at least 3 mccrorys in next 10 years. Not too many gaels from lurgan be getting buses to armagh newry or lismore to attend school

Half of whom are females, no doubt. So a boys school with 90 or 100 in one year might still be competitive.

Two schools in Newry have over 100 in each year group and have not been exactly competitive in recent years.

Ulster Colleges football is being affected like the Sigerson was many years ago, when it was opened to all third level colleges, as it has been opened to all schools with the amalgamation/demise of the Vocational Schools.  Almost any school can progress up through the grades if it has sufficient numbers with the talent and drive to compete.  Two of the big and formerly Vocational schools, Holy Trinity in Cookstown and St Ciaran's Ballygawley are now making the move against the traditional colleges.  St Ronan's is another example of how a school not previously known as a top footballing school can make it to the top.

Not sure if I'd describe St Ronan's as a school not previously known for football. Its predecessor, St Michael's, had a strong football tradition and won the MacLarnon Cup 4 times.

[macdanger2]

Young Smith is Sarsfields. Watched him from the opposition dugout many times. The lad doesn't now how good he is.

Just watched the highlights on TG4, he scored some lovely points

[The Gs Man]

Dynamic of ulster schools football has fairly changed. Was talking to a first year pupil at the match yesterday and they were saying there were 280 in their year. Ill be amazed if st ronans dont win at least 3 mccrorys in next 10 years. Not too many gaels from lurgan be getting buses to armagh newry or lismore to attend school

Half of whom are females, no doubt. So a boys school with 90 or 100 in one year might still be competitive.

Two schools in Newry have over 100 in each year group and have not been exactly competitive in recent years.

Ulster Colleges football is being affected like the Sigerson was many years ago, when it was opened to all third level colleges, as it has been opened to all schools with the amalgamation/demise of the Vocational Schools.  Almost any school can progress up through the grades if it has sufficient numbers with the talent and drive to compete.  Two of the big and formerly Vocational schools, Holy Trinity in Cookstown and St Ciaran's Ballygawley are now making the move against the traditional colleges.  St Ronan's is another example of how a school not previously known as a top footballing school can make it to the top.

Not sure if I'd describe St Ronan's as a school not previously known for football. Its predecessor, St Michael's, had a strong football tradition and won the MacLarnon Cup 4 times.

And our very own JimStynes captained them to one.....

[JimStynes]

A lifetime ago now!
And St Michael's won more than 4 maclarnon's.

[Owen Brannigan]

Dynamic of ulster schools football has fairly changed. Was talking to a first year pupil at the match yesterday and they were saying there were 280 in their year. Ill be amazed if st ronans dont win at least 3 mccrorys in next 10 years. Not too many gaels from lurgan be getting buses to armagh newry or lismore to attend school

Half of whom are females, no doubt. So a boys school with 90 or 100 in one year might still be competitive.

Two schools in Newry have over 100 in each year group and have not been exactly competitive in recent years.

Ulster Colleges football is being affected like the Sigerson was many years ago, when it was opened to all third level colleges, as it has been opened to all schools with the amalgamation/demise of the Vocational Schools.  Almost any school can progress up through the grades if it has sufficient numbers with the talent and drive to compete.  Two of the big and formerly Vocational schools, Holy Trinity in Cookstown and St Ciaran's Ballygawley are now making the move against the traditional colleges.  St Ronan's is another example of how a school not previously known as a top footballing school can make it to the top.

Not sure if I'd describe St Ronan's as a school not previously known for football. Its predecessor, St Michael's, had a strong football tradition and won the MacLarnon Cup 4 times.

Even Greenpark CBS won the MacLarnon Cup.  There is a major step up to win a MacRory and Hogan and St Ronan's made the leap when the conditions were right and the talent became available with great work in the local clubs.

[bennydorano]

Dynamic of ulster schools football has fairly changed. Was talking to a first year pupil at the match yesterday and they were saying there were 280 in their year. Ill be amazed if st ronans dont win at least 3 mccrorys in next 10 years. Not too many gaels from lurgan be getting buses to armagh newry or lismore to attend school

Half of whom are females, no doubt. So a boys school with 90 or 100 in one year might still be competitive.

Two schools in Newry have over 100 in each year group and have not been exactly competitive in recent years.

Ulster Colleges football is being affected like the Sigerson was many years ago, when it was opened to all third level colleges, as it has been opened to all schools with the amalgamation/demise of the Vocational Schools.  Almost any school can progress up through the grades if it has sufficient numbers with the talent and drive to compete.  Two of the big and formerly Vocational schools, Holy Trinity in Cookstown and St Ciaran's Ballygawley are now making the move against the traditional colleges.  St Ronan's is another example of how a school not previously known as a top footballing school can make it to the top.

Not sure if I'd describe St Ronan's as a school not previously known for football. Its predecessor, St Michael's, had a strong football tradition and won the MacLarnon Cup 4 times.

Even Greenpark CBS won the MacLarnon Cup.  There is a major step up to win a MacRory and Hogan and St Ronan's made the leap when the conditions were right and the talent became available with great work in the local clubs.

That Greenpark CBS (Or Armagh CBS) team were unlucky to get chinned by eventual winners St Mary's CBS in the Mac Rory semi the next year.

[Kickham csc]

Dynamic of ulster schools football has fairly changed. Was talking to a first year pupil at the match yesterday and they were saying there were 280 in their year. Ill be amazed if st ronans dont win at least 3 mccrorys in next 10 years. Not too many gaels from lurgan be getting buses to armagh newry or lismore to attend school

Half of whom are females, no doubt. So a boys school with 90 or 100 in one year might still be competitive.

Two schools in Newry have over 100 in each year group and have not been exactly competitive in recent years.

Ulster Colleges football is being affected like the Sigerson was many years ago, when it was opened to all third level colleges, as it has been opened to all schools with the amalgamation/demise of the Vocational Schools.  Almost any school can progress up through the grades if it has sufficient numbers with the talent and drive to compete.  Two of the big and formerly Vocational schools, Holy Trinity in Cookstown and St Ciaran's Ballygawley are now making the move against the traditional colleges.  St Ronan's is another example of how a school not previously known as a top footballing school can make it to the top.

You can add Bessbrook & Castlewellan to that, and to a lesser extent Virginia College in Cavan though they've yet to make an "A" grade breakthrough as far as I know. Ballygawley have a knack of being able to punch well above their weight on a consistent basis - it's very much a "rural" school with a student demographic that is pretty much all "rural" where except those living in Ballygawley all students travel then on board buses, it has a roll number of around 700-750, being co-ed around half of that will be girls and being a non-selective school, a significant amount of their students that do their GCSE's in Year 12 won't stay on to Year 13 there. At a rough guess they have probably around 35-40 boys or so each in Years 13 & 14 which is small compared to the more seasoned MacRory Cup competitors. In saying that I see at lower age levels this year they've been competing at "C" level so maybe the recent pupil intake there isn't as strong in terms of football ability that it has been recently.

Was the past MacRory Cup the first one in a very long time where there was no Donegal school taking part? St. Eunan's were playing in MacLaron this year instead while a lot of other post-primary Donegal schools were playing in the Markey Cup as well (mental note - I think St. Eunan's were also playing in the MacLaron cup a few years ago as well? If so that would answer my own question!). I think every other Ulster county had at least one school competing in the MacRory this year. I'd say in due course with the changes not only in schools GAA competition in Ulster but also within the "northern six" with regards to school closures/amalgamations, post-16 provisions etc. things will become interesting. Had the schools competitions been as one say 20-30 years ago, a few FE colleges in the north might have been able to give the MacLaron or even occasionally the MacRory a decent lash - unlikely that'll happen in the near future though.

Some would consider Maghera the first to make the jump, and if you ready the recent MacRory Cup history book that was launched a couple of years ago, the Ulster Council weren't too welcoming to Maghera

[Kickham csc]

Some would consider Maghera the first to make the jump, and if you ready the recent MacRory Cup history book that was launched a couple of years ago, the Ulster Council weren't too welcoming to Maghera

In what year did Maghera join the Ulster Colleges set up? From memory, I don't recall them ever winning any Ulster titles at Vocational Schools level whereas St. Pius X in Magherafelt had a string of VS success in the late 70's & early 80's which also powered the Derry county team to several All-Ireland titles before dropping off the radar - presumably they joined the colleges setup at some point in the 80's?

Bessbrook seemed to be lying in the football doldrums for quite some time before they reached a McDevitt (U14) final in 2004 I think. They were definitely defeated that day by Dean Maguirc Carrickmore. They eventually won an Ulster VS title, reached a Markey Cup semi final one year as well before deciding to throw their lot in with the colleges set up as they thought they had the talent coming through to give the MacRory cup a fair go and they certainly did, winning a McCormick Cup and almost a MacRory Cup not long after. While Bessbrook does have an advantage in its sheer student numbers it shows that if you have the talent and facilities available at your disposal to make a go of it and add a bit of belief, you can make a go of it. And to a large extent that's what St. Ronan's have achieved with.

I understand that when St. Pat's were formed in the 60's they applied to play in the Colleges competitions, but got major pushback from the council who believed, that as the school was not a grammar school, they should have been playing in VS football. They had to get written approval from VS to play in the colleges but the colleges still resisted, but St. Pat's won out in the end.

I know from my time there, there was an element of them 'v' us, which help fuel our determination to succeed.

The school structure is the same as St Ronan's, St Paul's, ie it is a non selective college that at the time took both people who got A, M and F in the 11+

[johnnycool]

Some would consider Maghera the first to make the jump, and if you ready the recent MacRory Cup history book that was launched a couple of years ago, the Ulster Council weren't too welcoming to Maghera

In what year did Maghera join the Ulster Colleges set up? From memory, I don't recall them ever winning any Ulster titles at Vocational Schools level whereas St. Pius X in Magherafelt had a string of VS success in the late 70's & early 80's which also powered the Derry county team to several All-Ireland titles before dropping off the radar - presumably they joined the colleges setup at some point in the 80's?

Bessbrook seemed to be lying in the football doldrums for quite some time before they reached a McDevitt (U14) final in 2004 I think. They were definitely defeated that day by Dean Maguirc Carrickmore. They eventually won an Ulster VS title, reached a Markey Cup semi final one year as well before deciding to throw their lot in with the colleges set up as they thought they had the talent coming through to give the MacRory cup a fair go and they certainly did, winning a McCormick Cup and almost a MacRory Cup not long after. While Bessbrook does have an advantage in its sheer student numbers it shows that if you have the talent and facilities available at your disposal to make a go of it and add a bit of belief, you can make a go of it. And to a large extent that's what St. Ronan's have achieved with.

I understand that when St. Pat's were formed in the 60's they applied to play in the Colleges competitions, but got major pushback from the council who believed, that as the school was not a grammar school, they should have been playing in VS football. They had to get written approval from VS to play in the colleges but the colleges still resisted, but St. Pat's won out in the end.

I know from my time there, there was an element of them 'v' us, which help fuel our determination to succeed.

The school structure is the same as St Ronan's, St Paul's, ie it is a non selective college that at the time took both people who got A, M and F in the 11+

Sure a lot of Grammar schools now are filling their seats with children getting a lot less than an A in the entrance exams and that bit of snobbery is being eroded.

St Patrick's Red High in Downpatrick is the same. There's currently talk of an amalgamation with three other comprehensive schools in the area and it isn't going down well with the Red Highers, but it'll happen all the same.

[Orior]

Throw in the drive by some people for inter-denominational schools then the McCrory cup will gravitate towards the ghettos like Crossmaglen.

[Walter Cronc]

From my knowledge the local catchment around Maghera (i.e 5-6 miles) don't have to sit the 11+ and are graded by P7 teachers and then an early exam in 1st year. It's those outside the area that have to pass to get in, with the caveat of an older brother/sister at the school being in your favour or you are a top footballer lol.

Each year group has 4 grammar stream classes and 4 non grammar. Few years back mind you. Maybe different now.

[FermGael]

Bigger issue IMO for Ulster colleges is with the Impending closure of alot of smaller "vocational" schools due to lack of numbers and government policy to try and centralise resources ( which is madness -you only have to look at the mess that has been made of the English system with this policy) , what happens the vast majority of lads in these schools who probably all play for their clubs and never make a mcrory squad ?

Also the current state of Gaelic in FE colleges ( the old "techs") is very sad to see.
Seems nobody wants to take responsibility for it .
I remember a time when those Colleges won all Ireland's and would have given most mcrory teams a run for their money

[Wildweasel74]

St marys magherafelt played maclarnon for years due to the set up of the classes; roughly 5 classes with 17 girls and 9 or 10 boys! Left a total of 50 boys in years upper and lower sixth to try pick a team from! Total intake a year was round 134; think it mire evenly split boy girl ratio these days!

[Wildweasel74]

St pius magherafelt always used to produce great players and good school teams but until recent years had only went up to 5th yr! There was a time in the late 70's early 80's when they stayed to 18 that they won 3 VS  cups in a row and were probably better than the corresponding maccrory cup winners at the time!

[Fr. Cyril McDuff]

From my knowledge the local catchment around Maghera (i.e 5-6 miles) don't have to sit the 11+ and are graded by P7 teachers and then an early exam in 1st year. It's those outside the area that have to pass to get in, with the caveat of an older brother/sister at the school being in your favour or you are a top footballer lol.

Each year group has 4 grammar stream classes and 4 non grammar. Few years back mind you. Maybe different now.

Still a similar set up, though apparently there have been suggestions of dropping the grammar stream by the new head teacher.
Children at feeder primary schools (Glen and Glenview in Maghera, Tirkane, Swatragh and Gulladuff I think) don't have to do a transfer test but can still be in the grammar stream depending on their primary school reports.