Roisin Shortall Resigns

[Shamrock Shore]

I agree with Seanie there. Kenny promised lots but in reality he has delivered the square root of f**k all.

Now I am a realist and didn't expect Kenny to pull rabbits out of hats but since the FG/LAB coalition took power we've had the same auld shite of political strokes, high salaries for arse wipers in every department, jobs for the boys etc that were endemic when FF were in charge.

Jesus - if there was an election tomorrow who the hell would be an alternative? Could Ming get a majority?

Speaking of Fierce Doherty - where has he gone to? The airwaves have been lacking his insights all summer and now all autumn. I know he went to Australia (whether that was business or pleasure I am not sure) but has he been silenced by the Gerry/May Lou power axis?

[Bord na Mona man]

The problem is, few people are going to vote for the party that is going to administer the medicine needed to get the economy back on track - i.e. Get public expenditure in line with (Northern) European norms, tackle protected professions and increase taxes.

Who would vote for a party that was guaranteed to deliver a balanced budget within 4 years?

People would much rather be told that the year 2006 was the norm, or that they don't need to pay back their personal debts, or that they are the 'most vulnerable in society' and should be cherished.

[Nally Stand]

If that's the attitude why bother being an a partially independent country?

Fixed that for you

[deiseach]

Jesus - if there was an election tomorrow who the hell would be an alternative? Could Ming get a majority?

I've wondered that myself. Spoiling my vote seems attractive at the moment.

[armaghniac]

Unfortunately there is still this lack of confidence in ourselves at all levels in Irish society and frankly it sickens me. Why can't we stand up for ourselves? Why do we think we need to go with the begging bowl?

We blew it ourselves. Having no money puts you in a difficult position.

Get public expenditure in line with (Northern) European norms, tackle protected professions and increase taxes.

Expenditure is not too much higher than Northern European norms, although clearly the money isn't well spent in many cases. But taxation is lower than Northern European norms, which many people pretend isn't the case, as the discussion on the property tax shows.

[Declan]

but it was the Irish people that were the main drivers of the true boom

I think this is part of the problem - we never had a "boom" we had a property bubble whereby 25%+ of our economic activity was in construction.

The fall out has been massive and if the current  ECB?German led austerity continues the whole of Europe will eventually implode.

If you were an uninterested objective observer looking in at the slow death of modern monetarist capilatism it might be interesting but living through it is a fecking nightmare

[Ulick]

Speaking of Fierce Doherty - where has he gone to? The airwaves have been lacking his insights all summer and now all autumn. I know he went to Australia (whether that was business or pleasure I am not sure) but has he been silenced by the Gerry/May Lou power axis?

The father-in-law was speaking to him yesterday at the Ploughing Championships. He only got back from the Australia tour last week. SF probably figure a lot of the young people out there will come back eventually and if not at least their parents will know someone gave a feck. I've no inside knowledge, but prior to that I'm guessing he was given an extended holiday to compensate for the paternity and bereavement leave he didn't get at the start of the summer (new baby and death of father).   

[Bord na Mona man]

but it was the Irish people that were the main drivers of the true boom

I think this is part of the problem - we never had a "boom" we had a property bubble whereby 25%+ of our economic activity was in construction.

The fall out has been massive and if the current  ECB?German led austerity continues the whole of Europe will eventually implode.

If you were an uninterested objective observer looking in at the slow death of modern monetarist capilatism it might be interesting but living through it is a fecking nightmare

The boom was roughly from 1994 to 2001, the bubble was from 2001 to 2007.

1994 - 2001 - Increased exports, booming IT and Pharmaceutical sectors, huge high-tech job creation. The true Celtic Tiger

2001 - 2007 - Giveaway budgets, property market getting out of control, benchmarking, low interest rates from the Eurozone, credit binging, wage inflation, decreasing competitiveness, semi-skilled jobs more rewarding than high skilled jobs.

Remember that in 2001 the Irish housing market was just starting to go into decline, at what was a natural point for an orderly correction in prices. This was blown apart by the low interest rates from the Euro introduction and the subsequent property market pumping policies of the government.

[Rossfan]

Who would vote for a party that was guaranteed to deliver a balanced budget within 4 years?

People would much rather be told that the year 2006 was the norm, or that they don't need to pay back their personal debts, or that they are the 'most vulnerable in society' and should be cherished.

+1.
Since 1977 and the FF smoke and mirrors trick of abolishing taxes/increasing expenditure we in this State have been living in a delusional cloud cuckooland which was exacerbated by hyperinflating property values via hyper borrowing.

Now we want the best of public services but we don't want to be paying any o' them oul taxes.
Then we have the fools who say "Tell them EU/ECB/Germans  to sod off and see whem run for cover"
Jesus Wept !!! 4.4m population tail  frightening the 500m big bad dog
Get real ladeens and laseens.

As for Róisín - in a few years time people will ask Róisín who?

[armaghniac]

Since 1977 and the FF smoke and mirrors trick of abolishing taxes/increasing expenditure we in this State have been living in a delusional cloud cuckooland which was exacerbated by hyperinflating property values via hyper borrowing.

This is a simplification. As Bord na Mona man pointed out in the late 90s there was a genuine boom. If tax rates were returned to 1995 levels and some of the giveaways since then removed the public finances wouldn't be far off balance.

[Mentalman]

As for Róisín - in a few years time people will ask Róisín who?

That may be the case, but she's another, along with Willie Penrose, who is massively popular with the Labour grassroots. How many Labour TDs have resigned the whip now, 4 or 5? I think looking down the tracks a lot of their TDs will follow suit in the coming months, especially as poll figures continue to decline. Hoping to maintain their popularity by ensuring no pay cuts or redundancies occur in the public sector coupled with no reductions in social welfare doesn't seem to be paying off for them, those who voted for them in the last election remember promised such as "not one cent". Even those bed rocks of their strategy may prove unsustainable, either that or the troika could assume direct, unambiguous control. A rocky road ahead.

[magpie seanie]

As for Róisín - in a few years time people will ask Róisín who?

That may be the case, but she's another, along with Willie Penrose, who is massively popular with the Labour grassroots. How many Labour TDs have resigned the whip now, 4 or 5? I think looking down the tracks a lot of their TDs will follow suit in the coming months, especially as poll figures continue to decline. Hoping to maintain their popularity by ensuring no pay cuts or redundancies occur in the public sector coupled with no reductions in social welfare doesn't seem to be paying off for them, those who voted for them in the last election remember promised such as "not one cent". Even those bed rocks of their strategy may prove unsustainable, either that or the troika could assume direct, unambiguous control. A rocky road ahead.

Shortall and Penrose are actually Labour people and they would be socialist in the traditional Labour sense - hence they are popular with the grassroots. Unfortunately for their party, the leadership are media performers who stand for whatever will keep them popular. Policies and ideals are anathema to them. It might occasionally bring them electoral "success" but this is inevitably followed by decimation.

[magpie seanie]

If that's the attitude why bother being an a partially independent country?

Fixed that for you

Sorry if I offended your sensibilities (though I think you just enjoy painting all us free-staters as partitionist). I'm sorry that we don't have a 32 county Republic but we don't and in line with the overwhelming majority of people on this island I parked the argument when I voted for the Good Friday Agreement. If it comes about in the future that will be great but stop trying to be the smart alec as it is really a bit tiresome when there are more pressing issues to debate.

[Rossfan]

You'd wonder why Nally and other Partitionist posters would want an All Ireland State when they keep sneering at and running down the 4.4 million of us who live in the 26 Co.s.
Who do they intend uniting with ......?



or is there ethnic cleansing on their little minds

[magpie seanie]

Thanks BnaM man and armaghniac among others - there was a real boom in this country. The property bubble while aided by external factors was largely driven by a desire for FF to get re-elected as the natural slowdown was happening at just the wrong time for Bertie and co. We had the prospect of finally having a proper economy but politcal needs outweighed the good of the cpountry and now look at us. Bertie, Cowen, McCreevy et al should be tried for treason if the statute is still on the books.

I don't have much issue with increasing income tax and I'd favour the higher paid getting hit harder (a third band for income over say 80,000). I think a property tax is unjust in a country where people were so strongly encouraged to buy property and now find it tough to pay for it. Buyer beware - yes, I understand, but the State played a huge part in this fiasco so I think a property tax at this time would be salt in the wounds. Income tax rises would be tough and unpalatable but necessary. For the clowns in FG and Lab to pretend that IT increases would not be needed was scandalous but then again you had a huge % of people who accepted this and believed them when it was obvious this could not be the case.

It's time for people who will take tough decisions to get into power and make the hard calls. I hoped someone would emerge but it's not happening.