Inclusion and a shared Future My Ar*e

[oisinog]

I see over a thousand unionists gathered outside Shore Road Asda last night and blocked the road, all to remember Billy Hunter who set himself on fire last week. Hunter was a man who was charged with the murders of two young Catholic men who were lured to an apartment in 1975 and shot them in the back of the head.

Unionism has really excelled itself this week in demonstrating how much the triumphalist mindset still exists. For a community whose 'leaders' preach like nobody else can on the importance of obeying the law & order, their involvement this week in what happened in Belfast, and their refusal to criticise unionist bands/hangers-on for their flagrant breach of the law is telling. Telling also, is how, having caused such offence, they now plan to march past it again in September with over 20,000 supporters. These bands evidently went out of their way to march past a Catholic Church for no other reason than because they knew it would cause offence. The Catholic Priest standing inside the door of the Chapel was subjected to some vile verbal abuse under the watchful gaze of the psni, while bottles and missiles were thrown at peaceful protesters. The triumphalist mindset is typified by the behaviour of those taking part in the march, who, upon reaching the Chapel turned to face the protesters and began cheering and dancing, and waving their flags in faces of protesters. Croppies lie down. I was listening to Radio Ulster Talkback this morning and the blind bigotry being espoused is truly amazing. Not so amazing was the input from one Ruth Dudley Edwards who explained in detail why she is so sympathetic to these loyalist knuckle draggers. The handling of this event at the weekend also raises some serious questions of the psni. Why is it that when a handful of bands are permitted to walk through the Ardoyne Shops etc, the psni are there in full riot gear in their hundreds to force the unionist marchers through, yet when the marchers are not permitted to walk past this Chapel, the same police are there in much smaller numbers, with no riot gear to be seen, and stand idly by watching the law being broken?

Nally in Ardoyne there is an expected tension every year that is why the PSNI are in riot gear. They draft officers in from all over Northern Ireland for that one march.

You fail to mention that 7 PSNI officers were injured trying to move the march on from in front of the chapel. I agree that the PSNI were under prepared for what happened at the weekend but other than a few missiles being thrown there is no way to compare it to what happens in Ardoyne.

There is still tensions in pocket areas in Northern Ireland and the police are doing the best they can with the resources that they have.

The majory of people in Northern Ireland have moved on we still have some single minded people on both sides of the community trying to stir up tensions

[All of a Sludden]

I see over a thousand unionists gathered outside Shore Road Asda last night and blocked the road, all to remember Billy Hunter who set himself on fire last week. Hunter was a man who was charged with the murders of two young Catholic men who were lured to an apartment in 1975 and shot them in the back of the head.

Unionism has really excelled itself this week in demonstrating how much the triumphalist mindset still exists. For a community whose 'leaders' preach like nobody else can on the importance of obeying the law & order, their involvement this week in what happened in Belfast, and their refusal to criticise unionist bands/hangers-on for their flagrant breach of the law is telling. Telling also, is how, having caused such offence, they now plan to march past it again in September with over 20,000 supporters. These bands evidently went out of their way to march past a Catholic Church for no other reason than because they knew it would cause offence. The Catholic Priest standing inside the door of the Chapel was subjected to some vile verbal abuse under the watchful gaze of the psni, while bottles and missiles were thrown at peaceful protesters. The triumphalist mindset is typified by the behaviour of those taking part in the march, who, upon reaching the Chapel turned to face the protesters and began cheering and dancing, and waving their flags in faces of protesters. Croppies lie down. I was listening to Radio Ulster Talkback this morning and the blind bigotry being espoused is truly amazing. Not so amazing was the input from one Ruth Dudley Edwards who explained in detail why she is so sympathetic to these loyalist knuckle draggers. The handling of this event at the weekend also raises some serious questions of the psni. Why is it that when a handful of bands are permitted to walk through the Ardoyne Shops etc, the psni are there in full riot gear in their hundreds to force the unionist marchers through, yet when the marchers are not permitted to walk past this Chapel, the same police are there in much smaller numbers, with no riot gear to be seen, and stand idly by watching the law being broken?

People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.

[Nally Stand]

I see over a thousand unionists gathered outside Shore Road Asda last night and blocked the road, all to remember Billy Hunter who set himself on fire last week. Hunter was a man who was charged with the murders of two young Catholic men who were lured to an apartment in 1975 and shot them in the back of the head.

Unionism has really excelled itself this week in demonstrating how much the triumphalist mindset still exists. For a community whose 'leaders' preach like nobody else can on the importance of obeying the law & order, their involvement this week in what happened in Belfast, and their refusal to criticise unionist bands/hangers-on for their flagrant breach of the law is telling. Telling also, is how, having caused such offence, they now plan to march past it again in September with over 20,000 supporters. These bands evidently went out of their way to march past a Catholic Church for no other reason than because they knew it would cause offence. The Catholic Priest standing inside the door of the Chapel was subjected to some vile verbal abuse under the watchful gaze of the psni, while bottles and missiles were thrown at peaceful protesters. The triumphalist mindset is typified by the behaviour of those taking part in the march, who, upon reaching the Chapel turned to face the protesters and began cheering and dancing, and waving their flags in faces of protesters. Croppies lie down. I was listening to Radio Ulster Talkback this morning and the blind bigotry being espoused is truly amazing. Not so amazing was the input from one Ruth Dudley Edwards who explained in detail why she is so sympathetic to these loyalist knuckle draggers. The handling of this event at the weekend also raises some serious questions of the psni. Why is it that when a handful of bands are permitted to walk through the Ardoyne Shops etc, the psni are there in full riot gear in their hundreds to force the unionist marchers through, yet when the marchers are not permitted to walk past this Chapel, the same police are there in much smaller numbers, with no riot gear to be seen, and stand idly by watching the law being broken?

People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.

Couldn't agree more. Certain folks deserved everything FF dished out. How's ms merkel looking after you? Ok?

[Nally Stand]

I see over a thousand unionists gathered outside Shore Road Asda last night and blocked the road, all to remember Billy Hunter who set himself on fire last week. Hunter was a man who was charged with the murders of two young Catholic men who were lured to an apartment in 1975 and shot them in the back of the head.

Unionism has really excelled itself this week in demonstrating how much the triumphalist mindset still exists. For a community whose 'leaders' preach like nobody else can on the importance of obeying the law & order, their involvement this week in what happened in Belfast, and their refusal to criticise unionist bands/hangers-on for their flagrant breach of the law is telling. Telling also, is how, having caused such offence, they now plan to march past it again in September with over 20,000 supporters. These bands evidently went out of their way to march past a Catholic Church for no other reason than because they knew it would cause offence. The Catholic Priest standing inside the door of the Chapel was subjected to some vile verbal abuse under the watchful gaze of the psni, while bottles and missiles were thrown at peaceful protesters. The triumphalist mindset is typified by the behaviour of those taking part in the march, who, upon reaching the Chapel turned to face the protesters and began cheering and dancing, and waving their flags in faces of protesters. Croppies lie down. I was listening to Radio Ulster Talkback this morning and the blind bigotry being espoused is truly amazing. Not so amazing was the input from one Ruth Dudley Edwards who explained in detail why she is so sympathetic to these loyalist knuckle draggers. The handling of this event at the weekend also raises some serious questions of the psni. Why is it that when a handful of bands are permitted to walk through the Ardoyne Shops etc, the psni are there in full riot gear in their hundreds to force the unionist marchers through, yet when the marchers are not permitted to walk past this Chapel, the same police are there in much smaller numbers, with no riot gear to be seen, and stand idly by watching the law being broken?

Nally in Ardoyne there is an expected tension every year that is why the PSNI are in riot gear. They draft officers in from all over Northern Ireland for that one march.

You fail to mention that 7 PSNI officers were injured trying to move the march on from in front of the chapel. I agree that the PSNI were under prepared for what happened at the weekend but other than a few missiles being thrown there is no way to compare it to what happens in Ardoyne.

There is still tensions in pocket areas in Northern Ireland and the police are doing the best they can with the resources that they have.

The majory of people in Northern Ireland have moved on we still have some single minded people on both sides of the community trying to stir up tensions

The PSNI doing their best with the resources they have? Nonsense of the highest order. If five orangemen wish to march through Ardoyne or Rasharkin, hundreds of psni men will be there in full riot gear to make damn sure it happens. If they are told they cannot march past a Chapel, where are those hundreds of psni men trying to make sure they don't and that the law is upheld? Standing aside watching the law being broken. Oh sorry, there was one with a loudspeaker calmly asking hundreds of loyalists to stop what they were doing. Heavy handed enforcement of the law alright. Claiming that this was just a result of not expecting it to be as contentious as it was is a laughable excuse. Unionist politicians and the bands made a very public campaign to ensure it was contentious in the days leading up to it.

[Maguire01]

No parity for nationalist flags and symbols. Sainsbury's festooned in union jacks

What an unfortunate example with which to make your point...

I store and one store only, check out Sprucefield, Newry Craigavon etc...

Why, what will I find there?

[Minder]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

[Maguire01]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

At least we know he's still alive.

[oisinog]

I see over a thousand unionists gathered outside Shore Road Asda last night and blocked the road, all to remember Billy Hunter who set himself on fire last week. Hunter was a man who was charged with the murders of two young Catholic men who were lured to an apartment in 1975 and shot them in the back of the head.

Unionism has really excelled itself this week in demonstrating how much the triumphalist mindset still exists. For a community whose 'leaders' preach like nobody else can on the importance of obeying the law & order, their involvement this week in what happened in Belfast, and their refusal to criticise unionist bands/hangers-on for their flagrant breach of the law is telling. Telling also, is how, having caused such offence, they now plan to march past it again in September with over 20,000 supporters. These bands evidently went out of their way to march past a Catholic Church for no other reason than because they knew it would cause offence. The Catholic Priest standing inside the door of the Chapel was subjected to some vile verbal abuse under the watchful gaze of the psni, while bottles and missiles were thrown at peaceful protesters. The triumphalist mindset is typified by the behaviour of those taking part in the march, who, upon reaching the Chapel turned to face the protesters and began cheering and dancing, and waving their flags in faces of protesters. Croppies lie down. I was listening to Radio Ulster Talkback this morning and the blind bigotry being espoused is truly amazing. Not so amazing was the input from one Ruth Dudley Edwards who explained in detail why she is so sympathetic to these loyalist knuckle draggers. The handling of this event at the weekend also raises some serious questions of the psni. Why is it that when a handful of bands are permitted to walk through the Ardoyne Shops etc, the psni are there in full riot gear in their hundreds to force the unionist marchers through, yet when the marchers are not permitted to walk past this Chapel, the same police are there in much smaller numbers, with no riot gear to be seen, and stand idly by watching the law being broken?

Nally in Ardoyne there is an expected tension every year that is why the PSNI are in riot gear. They draft officers in from all over Northern Ireland for that one march.

You fail to mention that 7 PSNI officers were injured trying to move the march on from in front of the chapel. I agree that the PSNI were under prepared for what happened at the weekend but other than a few missiles being thrown there is no way to compare it to what happens in Ardoyne.

There is still tensions in pocket areas in Northern Ireland and the police are doing the best they can with the resources that they have.

The majory of people in Northern Ireland have moved on we still have some single minded people on both sides of the community trying to stir up tensions

The PSNI doing their best with the resources they have? Nonsense of the highest order. If five orangemen wish to march through Ardoyne or Rasharkin, hundreds of psni men will be there in full riot gear to make damn sure it happens. If they are told they cannot march past a Chapel, where are those hundreds of psni men trying to make sure they don't and that the law is upheld? Standing aside watching the law being broken. Oh sorry, there was one with a loudspeaker calmly asking hundreds of loyalists to stop what they were doing. Heavy handed enforcement of the law alright. Claiming that this was just a result of not expecting it to be as contentious as it was is a laughable excuse. Unionist politicians and the bands made a very public campaign to ensure it was contentious in the days leading up to it.

Nally there was in excess of 10 to 15 police officers there to cover this section of the parade. This is the second biggest day for policing of the year so the PSNI resources are spread thin. They do have to deploy extra police officers to cover very contentious parades in other areas.

Yes it was outragous what the bands done but you so you know the police are still investigating this and will bring charges if they have enough supporting evidence.

The PSNI handled the best that they could if they had went in there heavy handed they could have had a major riot on there hands, This is what half the crowd on both sides was looking for.#

If there had been a riot you would be on here spiuting crap how the police caused a riot in belfast. If you look how they handle what happened in Ardoyne the police only protected there lines they didnt go in heavy handed and very few people got hurt

No matter what some people do in Northern Ireland a mind set is very difficult to change. Northern Ireland has went through a massive change but some people bith in here and out on the streets want to drag us back to the 80s. We need to move on

[Nally Stand]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

At least we know he's still alive.

Speaking of still alive, has anybody seen stoop 'leader' Alasdair McDonnell? Or is he still snoozing on the job?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEUDeLX-hY

[Maguire01]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

At least we know he's still alive.

Speaking of still alive, has anybody seen stoop 'leader' Alasdair McDonnell? Or is he still snoozing on the job?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEUDeLX-hY

Whatabout....

[Nally Stand]

Nally there was in excess of 10 to 15 police officers there to cover this section of the parade. This is the second biggest day for policing of the year so the PSNI resources are spread thin. They do have to deploy extra police officers to cover very contentious parades in other areas.

10 to 15. My point exactly. For one of the single most contentious parades of the entire year and by a long way the most contentious of that day. Ten to fifteen of them, making no effort to stop the law being broken bar one of them asking nicely over a loudspeaker. You mightn't like to hear it back but as you did say yourself, the Ardoyne Shops parade takes place on a day when resources are much more stretched and yet they can still manage to devote huge resources to a guide tiny group of orangemen along. No such resources dedicated to stopping them from marching where the law forbids them to though.

Yes it was outragous what the bands done but you so you know the police are still investigating this and will bring charges if they have enough supporting evidence.

By which time no doubt, the same scenario will have played out next year, because, hey, they got away with it once so why not again? That's not to mention the 20,000 expected to march there in September in another triumphalist insult of a march cultural celebration.

The PSNI handled the best that they could if they had went in there heavy handed they could have had a major riot on there hands, This is what half the crowd on both sides was looking for.#

If there had been a riot you would be on here spiuting crap how the police caused a riot in belfast. If you look how they handle what happened in Ardoyne the police only protected there lines they didnt go in heavy handed and very few people got hurt

Nonsense again. Nationalist protesters stood at the side of the road with a banner and threw no missiles as the parade went past. You suppose it is acceptable that unionist politicians and marchers break the law with no resistance from the 'police' because they might riot if they don't get their way?

No matter what some people do in Northern Ireland a mind set is very difficult to change. Northern Ireland has went through a massive change but some people bith in here and out on the streets want to drag us back to the 80s. We need to move on

I agree we need to move on, but I'd rather move on without having to accept the idea that unionist leaders can incite their followers to break the law and without having to witness this being facilitated by the psni. As the old saying goes, stand for nothing and you'll fall for anything.

[Nally Stand]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

At least we know he's still alive.

Speaking of still alive, has anybody seen stoop 'leader' Alasdair McDonnell? Or is he still snoozing on the job?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEUDeLX-hY

Whatabout....

Just a casual aside more than anything. Wondering what has happened to him is all. Is he still sleeping? I bet the lights in the chamber were too bright for him. He has a thing about lights.

[Maguire01]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

At least we know he's still alive.

Speaking of still alive, has anybody seen stoop 'leader' Alasdair McDonnell? Or is he still snoozing on the job?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEUDeLX-hY

Whatabout....

Just a casual aside more than anything. Wondering what has happened to him is all. Is he still sleeping? I bet the lights in the chamber were too bright for him. He has a thing about lights.

Whataboutery

[Saffrongael]

Interesting to hear the spin on this.




Sinn Fein MP Pat Doherty backed loyalist band cash bid

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19428223


Sinn Fein MP Pat Doherty has lobbied for money for a loyalist flute band.

He wrote to the Arts Council backing funding for Castlederg Young Loyalist Flute Band.

The band's website includes sections on IRA atrocities, the controversial B Specials and lyrics to songs, including one glorifying UVF terrorist Brian Robinson who murdered a Catholic.

The band is linked to a lodge within the Orange Order.


"I am not naïve but this application for new instruments was worth endorsing."

In his letter of support for £5,000, Mr Doherty wrote that the band had reached out to "all sections of the community."

The BBC obtained the letter, written on House of Commons notepaper in June 2011, as part of a Freedom of Information request on political lobbying in support of band funding applications.

He wrote: "I have had quite a bit of inter-action with the band and can unequivocally state they have made a huge contribution in helping to resolve community tensions in Castlederg."

Mr Doherty told the BBC he was not aware of the contents of the band's website, but it was "in transition."

He said: "I am not naïve but this application for new instruments was worth endorsing."

Mr Doherty was asked to write the letter by a third party.

A spokesman for the band said they were "a bit taken aback" to learn the Sinn Fein MP had lobbied for money for them.

Denied
He said: "We are not ashamed of who we are. Four of our members were murdered by the IRA."

But, like Mr Doherty, the spokesman pointed out that the band had participated in cross-border, folk and traditional music events, including those organised under the banner of European peace funding.

The application that Mr Doherty supported was turned down.

But it has just been awarded a £4,800 grant following a separate application, which the Arts Council said was successful as the band had signed up to community relations criteria.

The documentation released to the BBC also revealed a Sinn Fein councillor's backing for funding for another band from the "pro-Unionist marching" tradition.

Cookstown councillor Ciaran McElhone wrote to the Arts Council last October after Drumnacross flute band was denied funding.

According to his correspondence, the band's name had been used on a BEBO site whose content was deemed offensive.

But Cllr McElhone said the band neither commissioned nor condoned the site and the use of its name had been unauthorised.

He said he wanted the Arts Council to reconsider, saying also that the band was "uncontroversial among the Nationalist community."

[Nally Stand]

Pat Doherty is all for inclusion and a shared future

At least we know he's still alive.

Speaking of still alive, has anybody seen stoop 'leader' Alasdair McDonnell? Or is he still snoozing on the job?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEUDeLX-hY

Whatabout....

Just a casual aside more than anything. Wondering what has happened to him is all. Is he still sleeping? I bet the lights in the chamber were too bright for him. He has a thing about lights.

Whataboutery

Not really, as I'm wholly disgusted at Pat Doherty's actions so have no reason to deflect attention from it. Furthermore, raising Pat's record as an MP, in terms of this thread, is surely 'whataboutery' by your own standards? So allow me to just ask, as an aside, if anyone has tried to wake big Al yet?