All Ireland senior football final 2012 Donegal v Mayo

[magpie seanie]

Cork did.

[ross4life]

Ah, you have to say McGuinness has done a great job. Jez, they have retained a Anglo-Celt and Won an AI. Not even looking at the massive win that an AI is, Donegal had lost 5 Ulster finals in a row before JMG. I think they had won only 1 outta 8 Championship games in Croker. They have had no underage success, bar an Ulster under 21 a few years ago. They really have relatively came from nowhere and anybody who says the opposite does not follow football.

Horan, in his own right has done well also. But has to fine tune a few things. He will probably have learned far more this year than last year.

I read the other day before the 2007 NFL final Donegal had lost 13 finals in row which included league,Ulster & McKenna cups. Donegal also won Ulster minor title in 06 a few of those players were on the 2010 U21 team & that team played important role in this year's success. For example McGuinness was manager he tasted a heartbreaking AI final defeat it was Murphy that probably felt it the most after his penalty miss & for me making Murphy senior captain this year was one of the many masterstrokes by McGuinness.

[Zulu]

Cork had Paddy Kelly, Kerrigan, Golding, O'Connor and Sheehan and all those players would been on many people's Irish team. Sheehan will be regarded as a GAA great in due course.

[macdanger2]

First off, I'd like to thank James and the Mayo players for giving us a great year, just a pity they couldn't finally end the wait.

Congrats to Donegal, I hope ye enjoy it. Any other year, I'd be delighted to see ye winning.

It's a long way back for us in 2013 but there are no teams out there that we couldn't beat on a given day.

Maigh Eo abú

[Syferus]

Cork had Paddy Kelly, Kerrigan, Golding, O'Connor and Sheehan and all those players would been on many people's Irish team. Sheehan will be regarded as a GAA great in due course.

I'd have maybe one of those on an Irish 15. Goulding had trouble even making the Cork team that was well beat by Donegal. You are severely over-rating the individual talent of Cork, their success came by way of an extraordinary breath of talent not eye-catchingly brilliant players.

The All-Star list in 2010 tells that story more accurately and clearly than any words ever could.

[spuds]

I'd take Sheehan and O'Neill. A tall rangy wing forward and a free scoring corner/14.

[Zulu]

I'd argue that's it you who's underestimating the talent in Cork. If you're using All Star selections you are on shakey ground and many disagreed with that selection. As it happens I agreed with it as none of the Cork forwards were consistently good that year but neither the Gooch nor Bernard Brogan will be All Stars this year but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be on an Irish team. Goulding only struggled to make the team because of an injury lay off.

We could argue all night but most people would have those players in the mix. The point I'm making is nobody would have any of the Mayo full forward line in the mix. Only McLoughlin would probably be in conversations held the length of the country.

[BallyhaiseMan]

I would have to agree with Zulu on this
Cork have the best forward line outside of Kerry in terms of players with natural ability.
Colm O Neil and Ciaran Sheehan are prodigious talents,
Paul Kerrigan,Donncha O Connor,Daniel Goulding and Paddy Kelly are all among the top 20-25 forwards in the country.
When you add in, Pearse  O Neil and Fintan Gould into the equation,there is an massive amount of talent and ability there.

[Zulu]

What rubbish. If I'd achieved what Jim has I'd be well content with myself for sure though I don't know what your horseshit about boasting refers to.

Again, for the slow learners, I agree his achievements are notable but ulster is poor enough at the moment, Kerry never reached any great heights this year, Cork are hampered by Counihan and Mayo lack firepower. I'm not trying to undermine him I'm just pointing out it isn't the parting of the seas type stuff some, like you, are claiming.

The McGees, Murphy, McFadden, Kavanagh and Lacy would all have be highly regarded prior to this year and would have manys a team. What level McBrearty was it in 2010 is entirely irrelevant as we are discussing this years achievement and he was a notable addition to Donegal that previous managers didn't have.

Clare didnt win an All Ireland in 92 because they weren't good enough but Donegal were. Any manager who wins an AI has done a good job but Jim didn't win it with Waterford, which, by the way is a very apt comparison.

[Captain Obvious]

Before Jim McGuniness arrived Donegal hadn't won Ulster title since 1992 they never retain a title and only reached senior All Ireland final once before, Brian McEniff had two All Ireland U21 winning panels to chose from in 1992 McGuniness didn't have that choice and is arguably the best Donegal manager ever now.

[Syferus]

I really don't think there's an argument at this point. He's almost surely the single best active football manager in the entire country right now to boot.

[Zulu]

Before Jim McGuniness arrived Donegal hadn't won Ulster title since 1992 they never retain a title and only reached senior All Ireland final once before, Brian McEniff had two All Ireland U21 winning panels to chose from in 1992 McGuniness didn't have that choice and is arguably the best Donegal manager ever now.

And ulster housed both Derry and Down during that period so winning back to back Ulsters was more difficult. It was also a more amature time so teams didn't refocus as well as they do now. It's very hard to compare managers or teams over time and McGuiness has won an AI which is all he can do. It's a magnificent achievement, if a little over stated IMO but I won't labour it anymore as it's just a matter of opinion rather than fact and I'd doubt any Donegal man cares either way.

[brokencrossbar1]

Donegal won the AI and as Zulu said they won't care how but the system is based mostly on artisans that artists.  There are very few "natural" footballers on the team and the system is tailored to suit that.  The idea of retention of the ball at all costs means that they move the ball mostly via the hand.  That is fine at the minute as the are currently fitter and stronger than anyone else.  Once other teams reach that level of physical conditioning or return to it(I am looking directly at Cork and Dublin here) then the Donegal system will be swept aside under the current guise.  While they do kick long sometimes into the FF line it is clear they are not comfortable with it and struggle with it.

[ONeill]

It'll be interesting to see how Donegal fare next year. The majority of those players have put a savage effort in over the last 18 months, putting their free time on hold. You often find that the year after a breakthrough sees some injuries crippling key positions and a slight drop in intensity in defence. That's Jimmy's challenge now. Whether or not McGuinness can freshen the squad with players of a similar drive remains to be seen.

[Syferus]

Struggle with it? Per attempt they have to have been the most successful team I've seen at long balls into the full-forward line. They used it very effectively this season.

And the idea that fitness is the difference is wildly inaccurate - Dublin clearly remain the single most well-trained team in the country. Donegal's success is from a coalescence of alot of different disciplines and to say they'll just be swept aside shows an incredible amount of arrogance and short-sightedness.

So many people are desperate to quantify things with generic statements - a team 'doesn't have natural footballers', 'they have unreal fitness', 'they have huge hunger'. You can be sure Big Jim wasn't spouting off many sentimental cliches when he was training the Donegal panel.

It's like trying to tell someone you've completed a jigsaw when you've only put two pieces together.