Ireland gold medals going forward. Some bluesky thinking needed.

[Capt Pat]

I think Mick Dowling or someone like him said at the last games something like  we are spread too thin when it comes to olympic events. We need to concentrate all our resources on things we are good at like boxing of course.

He is right of course and we need to make a concentrated effort at certain events if we want to be sure of medals. Bringing in foreign coaches like the boxers have is a key part of that.

We could maybe even shoud do what the Brits have done and concentrate on events where it is easier to win medals. They have won 2 gold medals at these games with athletes who had never taken part in rowing or shooting before the last games. I didn't really think that was possible but it is obviously quite possible.

We are not  a well established olympic nation for obvious reasons. We have a number of main sports that completely dominate the sports scene and none are played at the olympics. Gaelic foot ball, hurling, rugby, soccer, golf and horse racing.The last one horse racing is just the gambling industry and golf is for older well to do people.

The other four main sports are all field team sports where it is easier and cheaper to organise groups of young lads into teams tof 15 than it is to train and provide equipment for individual olympic events.

Not alone that but these field sports teams also seem to operate as rites of passage or gangs for young men. They got bogged down in them and never get the opportunity or think of moving on to compete seriously in other sports. A lot of our best athletic talents never see the light of day outside of their local sports teams.

It doesn't have to be that way but it would probably have to be a concerted effort by the government or olympic council of Ireland to change this culture and achieve something at a higher level.
Is that worth doing in the current economic climate to achieve hollow victories at the next olympics? Within reason I think it is.


groups of young lads and cheaper than the individual training and equipment for oevents.

[dec]

Kidnap Colm O'Connell and bring him back from Kenya.

[Capt Pat]

Aussie rules is biggest in the state of Victoria. Everywhere else it is not a big deal. The GAA domintes everywhere in Ireland still. Where it doesn't soccer or rugby dominate. The GAA and the schools would frown on people playing any other sports apart from GAA. No wonder there has been very little olympic success.

[ :)quote author=Eamonnca1 link=topic=22042.msg1143868#msg1143868 date=1344536369]

Nail on head there. Too much of our athletic talent goes to waste on GAA. We can't compete at international level in football, rugby, athletics, etc because our youth is too busy worrying whether Cork will beat Kerry, or if Armagh can get one over on Tyrone...Depressingly parochial stuff.

Australia has their own endemic football code, doesn't stop them punching above their weight in other sports.

America's big 4 sports are a lot smaller outside of North America (except for a bit of Baseball in the Caribbean and Japan, Ice Hockey in Russia etc.).  Doesn't stop them dominating at globalized sports.  Hasn't even stopped them making some impressive progress in international soccer in recent years, getting to the World Cup in 2010 which is more than can be said for Ireland.

GAA's not for everybody.  There's plenty of people who could be encouraged to get involved in sports if they're given a variety to choose from in school and encouraged to compete outside of school. 

And for people who are into the GAA there's no reason why they can't play other sports on the side too.  A lot of the GAA people I know in San Francisco play another sport as well, usually soccer or rugby.
[/quote]

[Myles Na G.]

Just stick to what we are good at. Why throw any more money trying to win gold medals.

Just what (non-Olympic events) are we "good at"?

Small country with a small population.  Lets not worry about keeping up with the neighbours. Realistically we can win something at equestrian events, boxing and perhaps the odd long distance runner or cyclist. Just plug away a those, keeping the facilities up to date but kept to proportionate levels.

Hmmm, let me see. Small country, small population, worrying about keeping up with the neighbours.
You could add average weather, a national obsession with a non-Olympic sport that hardly anyone else plays and even a colonial background which imbued the "cult of the amateur" in the national psyche and you might have further excuses for lack of success in the Olympics.

Until you consider this lot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Olympic_medallists

Quite honestly, Ireland's Olympic record is pretty pathetic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_at_the_Olympics#Medal_tables

And that's counting the seven Boxing medals (of 12) won prior to these games by fighters from, ahem, "outside the jurisdiction" 

P.S. The less said about Michelle Smith's 4 x medals from Atlanta the better... 

Nail on head there. Too much of our athletic talent goes to waste on GAA. We can't compete at international level in football, rugby, athletics, etc because our youth is too busy worrying whether Cork will beat Kerry, or if Armagh can get one over on Tyrone...Depressingly parochial stuff.

Depressingly self-loathing post. How many countries can say their indigenous sports are so good that they captivate their population and capture the commitment of the sporting public in the face of the multinational marketing offensive and relentless promotional onslaught of the global sports-entertainment/TV industry ?

And how deliciously satisfying that today's triumph should occasion the spleen of beetle-brained begrudgers. It's an extra spoon of sugar in today's sweet cup.

Way off the mark there. I like me. It's GAA I can't stand. 

[Jonah]

Just stick to what we are good at. Why throw any more money trying to win gold medals.

Just what (non-Olympic events) are we "good at"?

Small country with a small population.  Lets not worry about keeping up with the neighbours. Realistically we can win something at equestrian events, boxing and perhaps the odd long distance runner or cyclist. Just plug away a those, keeping the facilities up to date but kept to proportionate levels.

Hmmm, let me see. Small country, small population, worrying about keeping up with the neighbours.
You could add average weather, a national obsession with a non-Olympic sport that hardly anyone else plays and even a colonial background which imbued the "cult of the amateur" in the national psyche and you might have further excuses for lack of success in the Olympics.

Until you consider this lot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Olympic_medallists

Quite honestly, Ireland's Olympic record is pretty pathetic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_at_the_Olympics#Medal_tables

And that's counting the seven Boxing medals (of 12) won prior to these games by fighters from, ahem, "outside the jurisdiction" 

P.S. The less said about Michelle Smith's 4 x medals from Atlanta the better... 

Nail on head there. Too much of our athletic talent goes to waste on GAA. We can't compete at international level in football, rugby, athletics, etc because our youth is too busy worrying whether Cork will beat Kerry, or if Armagh can get one over on Tyrone...Depressingly parochial stuff.

Depressingly self-loathing post. How many countries can say their indigenous sports are so good that they captivate their population and capture the commitment of the sporting public in the face of the multinational marketing offensive and relentless promotional onslaught of the global sports-entertainment/TV industry ?

And how deliciously satisfying that today's triumph should occasion the spleen of beetle-brained begrudgers. It's an extra spoon of sugar in today's sweet cup.

Way off the mark there. I like me. It's GAA I can't stand. 

Why are you on a GAA forum,is it just so you can try to annoy people with anti GAA posts?
Bit sad that isn't it,have you nothing better to do with your life?

[Ulick]

Proper handball I thought would be the obvious sport (not that primary school nonsense "handball" that's in it at the moment).

Nice show of ignorance. The handball game that's played in the Olympics (actually called Olympic Handball in Ireland to avoid confusion with Gaelic Handball) has been on the Olympic calendar now for for 11 straight games and far from being "primary school nonsense" it's a very physical sport which is the second fastest indoor sport in the world after ice hockey. That level of thinking would be along the lines of a German or Swede who would regard Olympic Handball as "proper handball" and think of Gaelic Handball as being squash without racquets.

It's shit. Boring to play and mind-numbing to watch. For the record, ice hockey might be fast, but it's shit as well, better than primary school "handball" and marginally better than hockey, but still shit. Stick that in your "ignorance" pipe.

[Myles Na G.]

Just stick to what we are good at. Why throw any more money trying to win gold medals.

Just what (non-Olympic events) are we "good at"?

Small country with a small population.  Lets not worry about keeping up with the neighbours. Realistically we can win something at equestrian events, boxing and perhaps the odd long distance runner or cyclist. Just plug away a those, keeping the facilities up to date but kept to proportionate levels.

Hmmm, let me see. Small country, small population, worrying about keeping up with the neighbours.
You could add average weather, a national obsession with a non-Olympic sport that hardly anyone else plays and even a colonial background which imbued the "cult of the amateur" in the national psyche and you might have further excuses for lack of success in the Olympics.

Until you consider this lot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Olympic_medallists

Quite honestly, Ireland's Olympic record is pretty pathetic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_at_the_Olympics#Medal_tables

And that's counting the seven Boxing medals (of 12) won prior to these games by fighters from, ahem, "outside the jurisdiction" 

P.S. The less said about Michelle Smith's 4 x medals from Atlanta the better... 

Nail on head there. Too much of our athletic talent goes to waste on GAA. We can't compete at international level in football, rugby, athletics, etc because our youth is too busy worrying whether Cork will beat Kerry, or if Armagh can get one over on Tyrone...Depressingly parochial stuff.

Depressingly self-loathing post. How many countries can say their indigenous sports are so good that they captivate their population and capture the commitment of the sporting public in the face of the multinational marketing offensive and relentless promotional onslaught of the global sports-entertainment/TV industry ?

And how deliciously satisfying that today's triumph should occasion the spleen of beetle-brained begrudgers. It's an extra spoon of sugar in today's sweet cup.

Way off the mark there. I like me. It's GAA I can't stand. 

Why are you on a GAA forum,is it just so you can try to annoy people with anti GAA posts?
Bit sad that isn't it,have you nothing better to do with your life?

Call me an old nitpicker if you will, but I'm actually on the 'Non GAA Discussion' bit of the forum. There's a clue there, if you look closely.

[Eamonnca1]

From the article posted earlier:

In the interim period a Work-Group Committee of 9 individuals has been formed which will finalise all arrangements and put in place a new constitution for the International Federation which will take in all handballing countries around the World - which at present is 33 affiliated countries and by 2012 could be in the region of 50 possible countries!

Sounds like they're not that far off 75 countries.

I'm glad the GAA handball people don't seem to be held back by the traditional Irish defeatism which is, in my opinion, the true source of our relatively weak performance in international sport.

[Orangemac]

1) More women boxers - there were only 12 fighters in some of the divisions.

2) Golf (coming in 2016)- already punching above our weight professionally.

3) Rugby (Is 7s coming in 2016?)

4) Fishing - surely there should be enough global support to get this accepted?

5) Shooting.

[Tony Baloney]

I heard that too (only two Irish-breds in the show jumping) and it didn't seem to make sense.

One of the gold medal winning horses is owned and trained by Sasha Stewart (nee Harrison) in Armagh. Apparently she is gonna sell the horse to the Saudis now for a 7 figure sum.

[Eamonnca1]

Fionntamhnach is spot on.  Every sport has its own appeal.  I'd never denigrate any sport (not even NASCAR), I'd never insult the competitors or fans who take it seriously.  I always remind myself of how stupid people look when they complain about the "boringness" of sports that I happen to enjoy and understand, while they clearly neither enjoy nor understand them.  Like the idiot who wrote an article in some American paper about how he could win the Tour de France just by riding a lighter bike.

If I ever find anything "boring to watch" it's usually because I don't know the rules or skills involved.  Once I know the rules and what's involved in competing then it becomes a lot more interesting. 

[deiseach]

If I ever find anything "boring to watch" it's usually because I don't know the rules or skills involved.  Once I know the rules and what's involved in competing then it becomes a lot more interesting.

It's a bit pat to say that if you find a sport boring it must be because you don't understand it. Some people like their sports violent, other people like them tactical. And I personally think you have to have skin in the game to really enjoy sport. Objectively rugby league is a superior sport to rugby union, but why should I care about Wigan v St Helens when I could be watching Munster v Toulouse?

[johnneycool]

Kidnap Colm O'Connell and bring him back from Kenya.

No, keep him there and ship out all Irish middle distance runners to there to learn how a lack of proper facilities prevented David Rudisha from storming to gold last night.

[ludermor]

Fionntamhnach is spot on.  Every sport has its own appeal.  I'd never denigrate any sport (not even NASCAR), I'd never insult the competitors or fans who take it seriously.  I always remind myself of how stupid people look when they complain about the "boringness" of sports that I happen to enjoy and understand, while they clearly neither enjoy nor understand them.  Like the idiot who wrote an article in some American paper about how he could win the Tour de France just by riding a lighter bike.

If I ever find anything "boring to watch" it's usually because I don't know the rules or skills involved.  Once I know the rules and what's involved in competing then it becomes a lot more interesting.

You dont apply the same criteria to peoples faith though 

[deiseach]

Ignoring the trolls, there are two reasons we don't win more medals in the Olympics:

1) We don't make the investment. GB won one gold in Atlanta - don't pretend you didn't gloat mightily as they stayed in the nether regions of the medals table while Michelle Smith drove us up it - so they decided to pour lottery money into elite sportspeople. And whaddya know, by Beijing they were up to 19 golds.

2) We don't have the participation levels. The LTA in Britain gets a fortune from the All-England Club to promote tennis but they can't overcome the fact that for the average Brit tennis is a two-week-a-year pursuit. Much the same is true in Ireland for just about all sports except for the four big field games.

And for the most part, neither bothers me. Look at the events New Zealand get most of their medals in. Do you really want to spend money on elite athletes and/or boosting participation levels in kayaking, rowing or sailing? I know I wouldn't. Since John Walker pipped Eamonn Coghlan to the post in Montreal, New Zealand have won a princely total of one medal in the Olympic stadium. It does bother me that there is not enough participation in athletics, but I'd rather money was spent at the grassroots without any expectation of Olympic glory rather than propping up spoilt brats like James 'Jerry Kiernan is a cross-country slogger' Nolan