Are we entering a vintage era for football?

[rrhf]

Can anyone remember the all ireland finals of 87/88/90/92/94/95/97/99/ they were all crap.  2004, 2006, were poor as well. Even the kings of the club game Cross play much watchable football these days than they did in the 90s / 2000s wins.

[mylestheslasher]

We've entered the realm of cynical defensive football, in fact the idea that the word foot is used in the name of the game is ridiculous. A tight finish might be exciting but in terms of the more skillful team winning, that is out the window. I ask what is next, what is the next "guru" going to demand of players to win. The problem with this negative Donegal style is that to beat it you need to play the same or similar game.

well, i actually loled there....

try this one for size myles.... maybe you should sort your own house out and then you won't be losing your best player again to counties that have the wherewithal and the ambition.

for some it's the most difficult thing in the world to accept your own failings, but we live in hope myles, we live in hope.

It teams like Cavan I worry about as the shite ye play will inevitably be copied by teams short of quality, just like ye were a few years ago. Then we will have more cynical crap like today to watch.

load of rubbish, cavan have enough players to achieve, you're just using this as an excuse as you don't like how we play and take a permanent defensive position too on what it takes to win at the top level these days. you'll win nothing for a long time until you change your ways.

btw, it was a magnificent game today. and it was because of no small amounts of skill and an intensity made possible by a physicality forged in the slog of training like you actually want it. but you would prefer to stick to your myopic view that has driven one of your players further afield into the arms of another county that runs things that can match his ambition and the level of commitment he prefers to give. you're a sad man myles slagging of folk who want to put the effort in while you champion the pissing about option. sad and a poor excuse for a cavan man.

Its seldom I've read such a disjointed post veering from one topic to another without making any coherent argument.

My point is this. To beat negative cynical football played by gym monkeys, you must become cynical and negative and spend 4 years in the gym. Kerry were every bit as cynical as Donegal today as they were against Tyrone. As a neutral, I don't want to see football reduced to this and I'm afraid your own county are pioneers in this new "style" of football which is a race to the bottom. In a few years Football will resemble rugby league.

Counties like my own who are starved of success will start to copy the Donegals on this world but how do you better it. Perhaps demand your players quit their day jobs and spend all year in the gym, sign their lives to the new fitness guru? Who knows how this next step will manifest itself. The GAA community must ask itself is this what we want football to become? Some rules need to be introduced to stop this, what they are I don't know.

Since you brought up the Seanie Johnston, another example of what is wrong with football. He betrayed his club and his county, togged out in Breffni park in a Kildare jersey against his own and has blackened the name of Kildare GAA all around the country - not just in Cavan. And for what??? To get 3 sub appearances in games that were already over, all introductions greeted by jeers from opposing fans, in his search for a medal. He got exactly what he deserved yesterday - nothing.

[BennyHarp]

Wobbler I actually thought you could see beyond the media spin on things.  We have a change in our games which has moved away from the bases that the best of the game is founded on.  In my view we are moving in the complete opposite direction from a vintage era.

Ah hold on.

I'll rephrase from here.

How about: Are we about to enter a vintage era in terms of football competitiveness?

Not: Are we about to enter a vintage era in terms of football quality?

Junior club championships can be competitive and it doesnt mean the standard of football is any good. Is the current era any more competitive than the mid 2000s when Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh and Dublin had some great games? I've yet to see a game in the current era to match the intensity, skill and tactical awareness that these teams served up in their pomp.

[From the Bunker]

This might seem a bit of a strange statement given the modern focus on stopping the opposition.

But having watched the four quarter-finals this weekend, i'd say we've now got in front of us four of the most athletic, disciplined and tactically aware sides in the history of the game together at once.
They're also each got a handful of cracking technical footballers who would have graced any team in history.

In my time watching football we've had umpteen great rivalries, and a few very competitive three-ways, but I can't remember four quality sides at once. The fact that there's a gap to Kerry tells you all you need to know, while the rest of Ireland (even Tyrone) have been pushed miles behind.

Yesterday I never wanted to watch football again. Now I can't wait for the semis.

Master of hypebole!!!  Dublin are a one trick pony and when Brogan struggles, Dublin struggle.  Mayo are a good team but do they hae the mental strength to get over the line or will they fail like many other Mayo teams?  Donegal are a strong physically fit unit who all buy into the 'system' but Kerry were very poor today and had no real leadership.  Cork are potentially one of the great teams but might they end up like the great Armagh 1 in a row team?  Hardly Vintage era stuff

The one thing about the 4 semi finalists, they are all cynical and negative when needed, Mayo being the least worst of them, if that makes sense.  The game has steadily movd away from the basics of how to play the game towards systems and strength.  If anything it is the antithesis of a vintage era.

Pure hyperbole - except I phrased it 'are we entering?' rather than we are in.

I'd agree that Dublin are the weaker side in this equation. But then again they've won 752 of the last 753 Leinster titles, so mut be a better than average side. And while they lack flair, if they were to play an All Star select every week, you know they'd still be in the mix in the last 5 minutes - their fitness, athleticism and commitment makes up for other shortfalls.

Mayo are the new kids in all this for me. But what I saw yesterday was a team that bossed Down in every aspect of football; any team that has done this in the past decade has gone on to pick up silverware. I couldn't believe how discreetly cynical they were - it was almost Kerry-esque.

Time will tell, but I think we're in for a cracking few years of these four bating' the sh1te out of each other at Croke.

The current Mayo team is good but I would still rate the team of the early to mid 90's a stronger unit.  They were within a bounce of a ball and a row from beating a very good Meath team which had a great mix of the old and new Meath.  They were mentally weak as a result but they were a better group of footballers and under the Tanned one were very fit. 

I think you mean the mid to late 90' Mayo team. The Early to mid 90's team got a couple of good scalpings from Cork in 93, Galway in '95, Leitrim in 94 and Donegal in '92. I'd go into more detail about those games, but it would only bring back bad memories to my Mayo bretheren. Jez, Maughan deserves great credit to have got us to the stanard he did in one year in '96.

[brokencrossbar1]

You're right, the team from 1996 onwards.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

The sooner rule are brought in and implemented that stop the cynical tackling/fouling etc that goes on the sooner the game will be opened up and it can go back to players knowing how to defend properly and work on attacking more....

[rrhf]

Sin bin and yellow card for third man or off the ball tackles - 14 men for 10 minutes.  red card for second sin bin. 

[Farrandeelin]

Are Mayo really one of the most athletic, disciplined and tactically aware teams in the history of football? That actually made me laugh!

And why did that make you laugh? Go on tell us? Share the Joke. 

We must have different senses of humour - but I find exaggeration on this scale quite funny. This is a decent Mayo team who struggled to beat Sligo and beat a very poor Down team. Their arse fell out in the all Ireland semi final again last year when Kerry thumped them by 9 points - hardly the best display of tactical awareness. If this Mayo team go on to actually win something I may change my mind but if someone said to you in a pub tonight that Mayo were one of the most disciplined and tactically aware teams IN HISTORY - would you not laugh at them. No? Ok - maybe it's just me. 

Remind me how they got on the previous year please. No actually don't, because it was an absolute shambles... Horan deserves as much credit as Maughan for getting the 'buzz' back in Mayo football. Saying that we could lose the next day. But it's nice been in the last 4 for 2 years running for the first time since 1997.

[BennyHarp]

I've never suggested that Mayo weren't a good team, Farrandeelin, and I agree Horan is doing a grand job. What I was commenting on was the complete over exaggeration that was stated and I'm sure you'd agree that it's a bit early to be lauding this Mayo team just yet?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I've never suggested that Mayo weren't a good team, Farrandeelin, and I agree Horan is doing a grand job. What I was commenting on was the complete over exaggeration that was stated and I'm sure you'd agree that it's a bit early to be lauding this Mayo team just yet?

+1 Who do we think we are, feckn Kildare!

[cadence]

We've entered the realm of cynical defensive football, in fact the idea that the word foot is used in the name of the game is ridiculous. A tight finish might be exciting but in terms of the more skillful team winning, that is out the window. I ask what is next, what is the next "guru" going to demand of players to win. The problem with this negative Donegal style is that to beat it you need to play the same or similar game.

well, i actually loled there....

try this one for size myles.... maybe you should sort your own house out and then you won't be losing your best player again to counties that have the wherewithal and the ambition.

for some it's the most difficult thing in the world to accept your own failings, but we live in hope myles, we live in hope.

It teams like Cavan I worry about as the shite ye play will inevitably be copied by teams short of quality, just like ye were a few years ago. Then we will have more cynical crap like today to watch.

load of rubbish, cavan have enough players to achieve, you're just using this as an excuse as you don't like how we play and take a permanent defensive position too on what it takes to win at the top level these days. you'll win nothing for a long time until you change your ways.

btw, it was a magnificent game today. and it was because of no small amounts of skill and an intensity made possible by a physicality forged in the slog of training like you actually want it. but you would prefer to stick to your myopic view that has driven one of your players further afield into the arms of another county that runs things that can match his ambition and the level of commitment he prefers to give. you're a sad man myles slagging of folk who want to put the effort in while you champion the pissing about option. sad and a poor excuse for a cavan man.

Its seldom I've read such a disjointed post veering from one topic to another without making any coherent argument.

My point is this. To beat negative cynical football played by gym monkeys, you must become cynical and negative and spend 4 years in the gym. Kerry were every bit as cynical as Donegal today as they were against Tyrone. As a neutral, I don't want to see football reduced to this and I'm afraid your own county are pioneers in this new "style" of football which is a race to the bottom. In a few years Football will resemble rugby league.

Counties like my own who are starved of success will start to copy the Donegals on this world but how do you better it. Perhaps demand your players quit their day jobs and spend all year in the gym, sign their lives to the new fitness guru? Who knows how this next step will manifest itself. The GAA community must ask itself is this what we want football to become? Some rules need to be introduced to stop this, what they are I don't know.

Since you brought up the Seanie Johnston, another example of what is wrong with football. He betrayed his club and his county, togged out in Breffni park in a Kildare jersey against his own and has blackened the name of Kildare GAA all around the country - not just in Cavan. And for what??? To get 3 sub appearances in games that were already over, all introductions greeted by jeers from opposing fans, in his search for a medal. He got exactly what he deserved yesterday - nothing.

whatever myles, with your conservative traditionalist position, using the same oul rationalisations over and over... gym monkeys, fitness guru, death of the game, like the game hasn't been evolving for years and what you're actually seeing is a very good manager who has figured out a way to challenge for honours.

tbh with you, the reason i'm pissed off with your attitude is i'm half cavan and have a soft spot for the county. sort your own shit out... take some responsibility for your own failings. would sj have left had cavan their house in order? very easy to blame a player who wants to achieve things and test himself at the top level. look at it from a player's point of view, one that wants to be as best as he can be. he's not such a scoundrel then.

i hope there are more modern thinkers about the game in cavan than you because it's a county i'd love to see do well.

[mylestheslasher]

Half Cavan or not you clearly haven't the slightest clue why Sean Johnston left Cavan.

[cadence]

has he spoken why he left? links please.

[mylestheslasher]

has he spoken why he left? links please.

Find your own "links" whatever good they are, the dogs on the street in Cavan know what went on and if there was a rotten culture in Cavan Johnston was at the centre of it.But up in Donegal ye know full well what happens when a few bad apples are stuck in the middle of the county panel.

[cadence]

ah naw, you're right myles. there was me thinking you were creating fictitious and spiteful rumours to deflect attention away from the reality. it's not the case at all that the predominant and governing cavan attitude is stubbornly stuck in the past and you're a fine example of that. i apologise. 

it would be ridiculous to suggest, you being the guardian of "traditional" (non-cynical even) football, that you'd slander the name of a player who merely wants to play for a county who are serious about winning things to defend your own embittered agenda.

how noble of you.